So...I had a chance to talk to George Gomez alone on Sunday morning at TPF. I asked him directly if there would be an update for Kiss. He said they have to find a way to make it happen as it has demanded and asked for constantly. I feel he was honest in what he said. So that tells me it is not really being worked on but it needs to be done.

Stern has too many irons in the fire. I get that they like to push new projects along but as buyers we should demand and we should expect MORE when it comes to code. There is no reason to settle for any game to have unfinished code.

Looks like we will be waiting a while.

This is complete bullshit Stern!!!

Gomez has shown that he's not 100% in touch with the software side of the house.

Even if he's 50% in touch this is bad news.

Really glad I've held off on new sterns. Looks like I'm done. MMR and WOZ will be where my money goes over the next year. Sorry stern, you dun screwed me for the last time.

This sounds as if there is NO work on a KISS code update.

This is the exact reason why A.P. has a realistic opportunity in this market. STERN has pulled this crap long enough without direct competition. JJP has a long way to go before they will be there(if ever). Batman 66(a rehash at that) proved there are still many wallets out there to purchase these higher end games. Until sales start to decline for STERN, we will never see a change. I mean c'mon, when KISS was released/delivered the inlanes didn't even make a sound.

My KISS LE was a rip off, and I am a pissed off STERN customer. Let's make that FORMER customer.

And they have been bullshitting us for almost a year. To hell with them...freaking liars.

Well, you really can't blame the programmers. Let's stay clear of them. They are workers just as we are in our positions. You can blame
"Stern" for not allowing programmers to finish the games though. I too purchased this game for over $7.5k and wasted $400 on a
topper for an incomplete machine. Let' s not forget mod purchases to add to this. So yeah, maybe this doesn't hurt Stern. Buyer confidence has definitely been affected. That's long gone in my opinion. Releases such as WWE, Kiss, Batman, Xmen, etc.. are quite disappointing when you shell out that kind of dough and expect it to be finished. The amount of time to wait for updates has taken a toll on all those who purchased machines with unfinished code.

I hope things get better soon. But by the wait history, I doubt it.

It's time for you guys to start selling off or trading your KISS machines.

I'd trade a WWE for one!

Man, I still love Kiss. Sucks balls to hear GG say that code is on the back burner, but the game is a gas. Great shots, fun music, and a wizard mode that's achievable.

I wish there were legit modes and songs that were more than just 'hit blinky lights,' but I'm still happy with the game.

It truly is a fun game for sure. Very nice layout. Nicest hand drawn art package out there in my opinion. Hopefully this title will be
completed shortly. It's such a masterpiece otherwise.

I have a feeling the KISS code will be just like the Avengers code. in 2022, we will see the code completed.

The fact is Stern has too many projects at once. Programmers are tied up. I don't fault them. Management has made poor decisions and lost lots of sales but gained just as many with each new release.

I don't regret buying Kiss at all. Great theme for me and it's still a lot of fun. Now it could use a good update to fix bugs, tie in the cities, etc.

Bottom line is Stern has shown code is not priority and they have proven if they can sell on theme alone. BM66 is complete proof of this. They unveiled a game that was not even playable and people jumped at the chance to pay $15K for one. They have no incentive to change what they are doing.

I don't think getting upset and breaking out the pitchforks is the right approach. Stern makes some fun games. But being vocal and the community continuously asking for code updates is something we need folks to do. They read this stuff.

They need to wake up and realize there is true competition coming and going to take some of the market share. We have choices now. We didn't before. And if the new guys survive we will have more choices every year. If Stern is going to be number one they have to improve what they do. Expectations are high and as soon as a manufacturer nails it all with quality, code, price, and timely delivery they will earn a lot of sales.

I enjoyed my KISS for a little bit but I'm happy that the now 4th owner is the one waiting for the code.

So stay tuned 4th hand buyers!!!!

Not true. There is no proper alternative to Stern at this time - no other company puts out multiple titles a year. They seem to still own the "Actual pinball company churning out games on the reg at sane prices" market all to themselves.

He's shown on more than one occasion he's not 25% in touch with the truth. I wouldn't believe anything that comes out of his mouth, plus or minus. Believe it when you see it.

True.

And I think they are selling a ton of Aerosmith pro right now as the game has gone down a storm.

"Proper alternative"? Wow. There are many other choices. Quality, feature set (value), and great code support is > quantity. The problem with Stern is that they are cranking out so many titles per year that code support has suffered as well as quality.

This wait for the next KISS code update is insane.

That's a complete crock of crap. How long would it take someone to update the code? A week? Maybe two? Is the world short of competent programmers all of a sudden?

From one of my favorite westerns, don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining ok?

What part of "Competition coming" did you guys forget to read. If Stern does not step it up someone is gonna figure it out and take a huge share of Stern's market.

It takes more than a fresh coat of paint to win Thunder Road and that's is all Stern is doing with each new release.

It only took them how long to get rid of the DMD display.....just one example. I am not here to bash Stern....I just want a code update as do many others for several titles and we can't get that.

Competition is good and that should drive Stern to improve what they do.

A bunch of hopeful conjecture does not mean "competition is coming." What part of "Stern is the only actual pinball company churning out games on the reg at sane prices" did you forget to read?

You are suggesting that Stern needs to change it's business and software development practices or they are doomed to lose market share, yet there is zero actual evidence of that being true.

LOL!!! I agree...they need to hire more programmers but they haven't. I think timelines are little off as even Lyman has had a couple months now on BM66 and it's no where near complete.

We can't even get them to fix the lock 4 balls for multi ball on Metallica...how hard is it to fix a call out.......and you expect code to be updated in 2 weeks. I guess you take that literally from Gomez.

Levi, you are obviously trying to troll this pretty hard. The market has grown. New companies are starting. Some have failed and others are succeeding. Spooky is growing. Anyone that fails to see this is asleep at the wheel. Not saying Spooky is taking down Stern but with each company selling games people have choices and that is cutting into Stern's market share. Simple economics. If someone gets it right they can earn ALOT of business. Stern is in a position to stay number one or lose market share slowly and erode their business over time. That's all I am saying. Enough on that.

Since #where's the code is not helping today it's time to # a beer....or two...and play some pin.

Not trolling. I think Stern is doing a fine job and nobody else has come anywhere close to accomplishing what they are doing. This always gets lost in the complaints about code. As far as KISS, that game is far more "complete" than any of you want to admit. They should just get rid of the city choices and call it a day.

I love Kiss, and Aerosmith was a ton of fun.

Having said that, I just bought RZ. FWIW.

The fact that American Pinball got a Houdini up and running with hardware AND software in FOUR MONTHS that performs better than Batman '66 says it all about priorities at Stern.

Exactly.

You know how we are going to have to get this done? Get a complaint to the band that their pinball game isn't finished. Will it work? Who knows, but I don't see what else is going to get it done.

At the current average paid for a NIB pinball machine, every machine sold to JJP, Heighway, Spooky, and now RFMr, etc is real dollars lost and when combined against a company Stern's size is a significant loss of business. Soon Stern will realize this when their revenue starts declining quarter over quarter.

The bigger they are the harder they fall

Depends on the buyer we're talking about which is why I pulled all of the qualifiers you added and added my own...

For the home buyer, buying a NIB once maybe twice a year, there are plenty of options.

For the dude with a route hoping to sucker rubes into plunking quarters into a pin? You're correct.

But I'm not that dude.

Nobody is going to change a fanboys mind or the mind of a buyer scorned. So we should all move on.

The biggest issue any company that isn't Stern has right now is production. What production facilities do American Pinball have? We've seen prototype games from countless startups and snake oil salesmen, but they all seem to run out of money or completely fall over when it comes time to get games to customers.

The band don't care. They have their money. This has been brought up before.

I hear a lot of back and forth about how long it takes to write code and I would just say this. When they released the KISS topper the code was written in the span of 72 hours because owners started to get them and the code was not complete for it to operate. So to add a few call outs and a few bug fixes should not take nearly a year.

You missed the point. If a couple guys can get a new machine both HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE running well enough to flip and be fun to play in FOUR MONTHS with much more complicated toys. There's NO excuse for a non-flippable BM'66 at the 30th party, and literally shipping months later with literal alpha code. Zero. Valid. Reasons.

American Pinball started talking about their Houdini game in September 2016, then the machine revealed at the end of that month. Longer than 4 months development. My point is that they are a startup and I'm not going to compare them with Stern until they start producing games and getting them into the hands of customers. Magic Girl barely worked.

Batman 66 looked fairly complete to me. They had multiple physical games and Lyman didn't want people playing it.

That was a different game. They scrapped that and started over at the end of 2016.

Well, okay, but that has NOTHING to do with the FACT that they did a HUGE amount of software development in 4 months, scrapping the game they showed in Sept and starting over, making a flappable game that's more fun and with cooler toys that work than Batman'66. Same amount of time Stern farted around with some very small revisions to Batman'66, AP took a pin from the ground up and made it fun to play. The excuses from Stern about slow development and Lyman working 100% of the time on Batman, but missing every promised "Gomez Drop" are shown to be just that, excuses. Houdini shows what can be done with 100% time spent on software (and HARDWARE!) for 4 months, and it's a much different outcome than Batman'66.

Sure there is, because they are not committed to it. That's why. The entire Stern crew plus Gary will be up in Milwaukee for the MGC in a few weeks. I plan on starting a few discussions.

The biggest Kiss fan in the North East finally made it to the club!! Unfortunately based on what I heard, there will be no code update worth anything.......Just a bug fix....We have been lied to. Time to mod this puppy, check out my Alive figures!

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IMG_2783 (resized).JPG

Hot damn dude it's about time!! Congratulations!!

On Stern's FB yesterday they made a post about the new Aerosmith code, and per usual someone asks when KISS is going to get the update. Stern's comment was "Not today."

Real classy Stern.

Stern needs a new FB PR person. Sorry Jared.

I'm readin so many people upset at the "incompleteness" of KISS. I've said it before I'll say it again KISS is done and you should be happy! It's come a bit since early code. Yes cities do nothing but it's better than MetallicA's songs do nothing so you've got one up on a great game!

It needs a bug or two fixed. I honestly feel that the screaming for every game to be completely overhauled every year keeps them from addressing the few bugs and moving on. The game is complete. The cities change the call outs. WTF do you all think is going to be added to the game at this point? Every code release for every other Stern title is now a reason to demand "where's the KISS code???". If you don't like the game now, it seems impossible that a final code update will make you do a 180, so why not sell your KISS machines if they are so terrible and move on?

If Stern kept their mouth shut and didn't say a code update was coming and just acknowledged it was done people wouldn't be screaming. I agree that not every game has to be super deep and Kiss is a great looking pin with fun rules at the moment. Jody said, on video mind you, that an update was coming. Even if you think the game is fine as is, just lying to the pinball community about a "big update" coming to a game people dropped 5k + for is just a shit bag move. I think people have every right to be pissed. If you don't want people to scream, don't make promises that you don't keep.

From a far it looks like Ace is getting one in on the Star Child.

In real life I think it happened the other way.

I've been following this thread for awhile, and until today I've been thinking we "deserve" an update. However, after stepping back and really thinking about this, I realize I've never even reached all the wizard modes. Therefore, why do I need an update? The cities were probably never intended to more than the minor call-outs you hear when starting a new song. The game has 5 multi-balls, which I would be surprised if many have actually reached without adjusting the default settings. And plenty of adjustments are there to make the game easier to progress through, if desired. Honestly, what "huge" code update do some of you envision? Maybe fix a couple bugs but even those are few and far between.

This thread is loud for sure, and likely making Stern think about how the game was developed, marketed, and enhanced. So why hasn't Stern released a code update within the past year for KISS? Well, GG pretty much said it - they don't see it worth the expense yet, simple. Does that hurt some peoples feelings, sure, but don't let that get in the way of playing and enjoying a "good" game.

Keep on flippin'

Look at the bug thread. There are more than 15 bugs, not just a couple. Some are fairly serious (like the lovegun two ball jam-up that requires a reboot).

The biggest problem is Stern promising a "big" update is coming (on video) last year. If nothing was being worked on (as Gomez now says) WHY would you LIE to your customers?!! It's a big problem with modern Stern, and this isn't the only instance.

That said, KISS earns well on route, and I still like the way the one I have at home looks and plays, so I guess that's the best we're gonna get. But I will say this, Ghostbusters PF fiasco, and the BM'66 launch fail has made me a LOT more careful about recommending Sterns for route or buying any for myself. And I don't think I'm alone.

Except its far from complete (feel free to peruse the kiss code suggestion thread) and they said there was going to be a big update.

I am sure at some point there will be new code. TF and Avengers both got code finally and same for Kiss, just taking long.

I enjoy the game shots as it stands, and with music customized. The issue is don't say there is an update coming and keep us hanging. How about we are working on adding these features (listed). Ask for some input, maybe? A lot of posters on here have great ideas they could implement in part or whole. Or, maybe its us? The code is ready, but they can't release it from the hard drive?

It's BS because if Stern had a newer $500 KISS topper to sell we would have a code update to support that in 24 hours.

It was also said AC/DC was going to get a final update.

Also that TWD is getting one more update.

Obviously these games are great but that final polish, especially as it has been hinted, just give more confidence in Stern going forward.

KISS will probably get a final update but don't think it's going to be a big one anymore.