I'm going to be honest - I don't have much faith that an update is really coming. The title didn't sell well and I think Stern was trying to help the distributors liquidate their old stock by saying an update was coming. They have no business reason to update the game again. How it is today is how it will be forever. On 4/21 it will have been a year since the last update. I hope I'm wrong, but at this point I've lost faith. Lonnie just isn't working on it and probably doesn't intend to also.

I disagree. SM and XM got updates long after they had gone into the Stern archive.

How do you know this lonnie guy isnt working on it? Do you know him? Got facts to back this up or you just spreading rumours and guessing ?

Cool! My brother used to have a genuine Gene Simmons Punisher bass when we played in the NZ KISS tribute band.

I was the Vinnie Vincent character so I just used my reverse headstock Jackson 88.

rd

If Avengers gets an update I have no doubt Kiss will too

For those that think the code is pretty good....

Most modes in games have a timer or other ways to finish modes. With kiss, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you need to shoot through the pops to complete a mode, and cannot make the shot... You are stuck in jail. Cannot choose another song, cannot finish the mode another way... Cannot time it out.

I don't see this being an issue with great players but it puts a big gap of fun between the great players and above average players.

I never had problems with cities being missing (although it is a little annoying), but the 'mode jail' thing was super frustrating so I sold the machine. Know about 6 people that bought kiss NIB and 5 of them have sold it. That has never happened.

I really don't care about specifics of the code being missing, IE, cities, I just want more depth and excitement like you get out of other Stern music pins (AC/DC and Metallica)... there is just something missing from this game and it feels like it was taken to a point of being just acceptable and then abandoned.

Does the game do well on location? Yep. It's good enough for that. And that's probably the big reason Stern hasn't done anything more at this point (in my humble opinion).

Does the game have high scores for each song on the leader boards like AC/DC? I think it doesn't....

This REALLY needs to be added

I hope you're right. Business wise I don't see it making sense since the title is a total flop. The stern train keeps a rollin.

Well, depends if Stern are thinking long term.

People will stop buying new games if they have doubts that code will be completed, even more so with KISS due to hints/promises that it is indeed coming.

The scores in each song mode aren't nearly as variable as they are in AC/DC where you can play a song mode as long as you'd like, potentially cashing in on a major song jackpot. In KISS, you just finish the mode or you don't. I'm not sure song leader boards would be worthwhile.

The rules to KISS aren't as interesting as Met or AC/DC but all this talk of "unfinished" doesn't make much sense to me. The multipliers with the last release really added a needed dimension to this title.

You're kidding right? Abandoning a game with beta code burns home buyers badly. And home use buyers are a huge portion of their business today. I pulled my deposit on a GB LE and wont buy a BM66 because of this. I'm not alone on this. Sure they sell out. But how many MORE could they sell if they produced quality/finished code within 12 months of release? Imagine if they actually committed to that and delivered?

They don't care about your money. There are plenty more people to step up to buy the LE that you turned down in protest. They just keep selling out. (Except Kiss cause it was a flop)

One more point is I don't think they actually promised an update. They were careful about what they said "Stay Tuned" isn't a promise of an update and neither is - "We're working on it - I know that's something the community wants".

I hope I'm wrong, but if they were going to have a polish update it would've been released by now.

Crazy really.

With all the QC issues you would think they would focus on code updates as it would make collectors way happier. Even a simple message that there will be updates on this game and others in 2017!

Maybe they have a cunning plan as game not yet archived.

Great code update equals a ton more games being sold and produced. This is not rocket science.....

I am on the fence buying this game - I want to but kind of depends on another update.

http://www.sternpinball.com/games

I have read these same conversations with just about every title since SM. MET and XM had the community in a bigger uproar than KISS. I don't like that it takes so long, but I have faith.

I even think MET will get another update, with band member modes and another song.

I don't think this is true. Most people buy games based on theme. I think they keep updating code as long as the game is selling. Once it stops it gets abandoned, hence where we are with Kiss. Sales drive code which might drive more sales. They don't invest in writing kick ass code on a turd theme and hope it sells.

Yet this doesn't hold true with SM or XM, which got their best updates after already in the archive.

I don't think KISS is a turd theme - it is actually as much fun to play as AC/DC and MET but obviously has code deficiencies.

If the code was awesome, it would sell!

If AC/DC code had been pants, it would not have sold anything like the amount. Ditto MET.

And I only bought TWD because of that awesome code update so code updates do sell games.

Saying they 'sold out' of a small number of pins isn't impressive.

The fact remains that more pins would be sold if they had a better code release process. Whether they care about selling more pins is certainly up for debate.

I disagree - the majority of pinheads I know barely scratch the surface on the rules of the game. Most people just suck at pinball. I'd honestly be curious to see how many people complaining about the Kiss code that have actually seen everything in the game. I know I haven't. I'm considering putting my premium on route because I think it'll earn well which is ultimately what Stern cares about.

Come on now - comparing the band Kiss to AC/DC or MET is like comparing Milli Vanilli to Michael Jackson.

Here's a challenge for y'all. Post on Stern's facebook and get an answer of Yes or No on the code update and don't accept stay tuned. That will settle it once and for all.

That would be one of the shortest challenges you make and your reward would be that you can join the STERN BANNED CLUB.

Yes they do. Any unfinished game will affect sales of new games. No one wants to gamble on their new $5k-$15k pinball machine being left for dead. The business of finished code always goes beyond a single game.

I agree that the average Joe doesn't scratch the surface of any rule set. I studied KISS rules for weeks before I was able to absorb everything that was going on and it wasn't until I watched the PAPA tutorial several times that I really understood the complexities of the rule set. Even then, I had to tweak the settings in order to complete the grid with some regularity.

So I call BS on the those that whine about the rules being shallow. Perhaps these people are among the few pinball prodigies that are so good that they can become so bored with KISS rules after a few plays. But for the average pinballer, the rules are reasonably deep.

That's not the point. Games should be finished. Most people probably never finished Super Mario Bros...but if the character went down a pipe and nothing happened - that wouldn't be cool! Any video game that is buggy or unfinished is DESTROYED by the gamer community. You know Kiss is unfinished from the second you start! "Choose a City" ....does nothing. I'd rather play WOF where the unfinished stuff would have been the wizard mode I'd never get to anyway! LOL

You don't need to shoot through the pops to complete a mode. Each mode requires about 8 shots and the patterns are pretty varied so there is very little chopping wood in comparison to something like RBION where you have to hit a bunch of tokens, or a bunch of spinners, etc. Some of the KISS modes are easier than others so you start with those such as Deuce and Lick It Up. You do need to hit the scoop to start a new mode but that is fairly standard.

As to the lack of timing out of modes. You're damned it you do and damned if you don't time out the mode. It's frustrating as hell to time out of modes when learning a new game such as on GB. On KISS, you get to explore all of the modes without the frustration of timing out. But, it can be frustrating to complete a mode. Both approaches are going to frustrate the new player at times. Personally, I like the lack of a time out. If you want to get out of a mode on KISS, hammer on the Demon to get Demon Multiball and you have a reasonably good chance of completing the orbit by happenstance.

I don't think most are complaining about the depth, but more about the lack of imagination in the shots (shoot the arrows - forever!) and scenario which makes it kind of repetitive and boring because there's not much difference between most of the songs (except, for example, hotter than hell). So a "good" game is doing a lot of the same stuff the same way for a long time to get to a wizard mode that is about as basic as they come. It's there, but it's just an outline, really.

I may be wrong, but I believe THAT is the main knock on KISS, especially when you have Metallica to compare it to, with all the cool modes.

I earned that honor during the transformers release and remain part of the club.

I respectfully disagree.
The reason is called Aerosmith - that is if Stern wants to sell any.

I will not even consider any new Stern game until they finish Kiss, and I know I am not alone.
Many Batman66 owners seem to be feeling the same way.

You are literally disagreeing that a pin with completely baked solid code wouldn't sell more units than a pin with half baked code?

MK.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one I guess.

Agree.

The tax code is deep too but that doesn't make it fun.

No - Kiss code is pretty solid. It could use some polish but I think it's a fun game and earning decently. I wouldn't call it half baked. I don't think a code improvement would sell that many more since it's just not a popular theme.

There are new buyers lining up to fill your spot. Stern has demonstrated they just don't care. Quality is on the decline, price and sales on the incline.

Finally, It doesn't take 10 months to update the code. They're just not working on it because it's a dead title.

This all might be true.

But an awesome update WOULD sell more games as pinheads are a fickle bunch.

And NOT doing an update will impact on future sales of other titles.

They may be making hay while the sun shines but you need to be prepared for rainy days

Look at what the last code update did for Star Trek...more premiums were built.

Same goes for Metallica, Walking Dead, AC/DC.

For most of us, it seems, better code sells more pins. Regardless of theme.

But again, we'll have to simply agree to disagree on that.

Nor I. The only weapon we have is to hit them with our wallet. And it's an effective one.

Hello to all.

What i as a GoT-owner absolutely not understand:

I read Kiss Code is not finished and not the best.
Since nearly one year a thread with thousands of posts....

Why is Kiss higher rated here on pinside Top 100 than GoT, where the majority (including me) is absolutely happy about the code (OK, a little last update would be more than nice).

???

Art goes a long way. People always rate hand drawn art higher than Photoshop...especially horrible Photoshop like GOT.

At least they got it right with the GOT LE art.

Eh...it's OK. Points for being painted...points removed for it just having 5 characters who are just staring into space. That's my problem with all the GOT packages...they're just "people staring". They're all pretty boring...and the playfield looks cheesy and cheap on all models. To be honest, I don't think Kiss's art is that great either...but when people rate games, they prefer that style - and that's why I think Kiss would have higher ratings than GOT. Although I'm sure some people think it's more fun...so there's that.

Because those ratings are completely meaningless for the most part.

The only ratings you need to pay attention to are the ones that Kevin Ryan does (Caucasian two step on here). His are unbiased and very honest.

I think the GoT LE art is way uglier than the Premium. Too much brown.

OK, the art is the cause.Mhhh.

Maybe i am in the minority, but i like the playfield art. But i also liked it in my IJ4. Looking on a landscape-map....

The Translite is not sooo exciting (OK, to say the truth it is ugly), but it this was easy to change, i ordered an alternate Translite.
Ordering an alternate Code for KISS seems much more complicated i think.

Thanks to all for your replies (and yes, ratings are overrated).

Haha, exactly. I got banned for less than that. Good way to treat customers!

Where did you order it from? Have a pic?

Except...it does. it changes the callouts doesnt it?

I still feel that is all they intended the cities to do.

Soon to add LE #50 to the mix.

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