Heck they have yet to finish Wheel of fortune. So sad. I am straight up making the JJP move myself and am glad I didn't get in on a GB with all that drama. I can not imagine the blunt trauma that will surround BM66.

72310346 (resized).jpg

I cancelled my GB LE...I may buy one if they finish KISS code and get the PF issues straightened out.

Whats JJP's next title?

Trying to figure out exactly how the 2x+ pf multipliers are earned? anyone know?

Cant remember if it is after two songs completed on the same ball but I do know that after completing each song the main shot arrows light ala arrow modes in SM and you can assign a multiplier to a single shot for the rest of the ball. Never got it to see if you could stack multiple multipliers.. My game has been gone for several months now and don't miss it at all. Hope you get another update but this delay and uncertainty was the reason I sold it.

Not sure, There is supposed to be a reveal at expo though, looking forward to it!

WOF was a "different era" and the main reason it wasn't finished is because it was Keith's game and he's no longer at Stern. I think what Stern did with Avengers - finishing an out of production game years later - shows that people shouldn't worry about Kiss. You'll need patience....but I doubt it will be left for dead like WOF.

it has been proven you can not trust anything they say unfortunately.

Stern is now in Missiouri territory. "see it to belive it"

Sure, the situation sucks....I just don't they're going to abandon games when customers are actively pointing out bugs and unfinished elements. Might take forever, but Avengers is proof that they listen and act.

Yeah, finish a song, then the arrows will go white. The shot you take then will STAY white, and that shot will be 2X for the rest of that ball. If you finish two songs, you get to choose another shot to make 2x, AND the 2X global playfield multiplier (the one between the slings) will stay on until the end of the ball. So those shots that were 2x are now 4x until the end of the ball.

But there are now tons of games waiting either for vital fleshing out, bug fixes, and / or final polish. They're so slow to make any progress, machines usually get released with what should be alpha code at best, and by releasing more and more machines, the backlog grows ever larger.

The two Sterns I own are in by no means the worst position - Luci & ST Premium. But ACDC really could use some score rebalances, adding the final missing features (hello unused inserts, ability to adjust sling strength and disable lower pf / cannon). ST really needs bug fixes, and a general polish.

So those are two of the games on the waiting list that are in a far better position than the likes of KISS or WWE ... but the wait is really sad. Well over 2 years for ACDC, and over 18 months now for ST.

Codes coming .. they are working on it now
Picture from the software developement control room

20161011_181130 (resized).jpg

WOF was released in October 2007 and the last software version 5.00 in December 2007. After WOF, Keith was involved in IJ (and CSI) before leaving Stern in October 2008. Maybe WOF just didn't sell well enough, and Stern didn't see that updating the code would boost sales enough to allocate enough Keith's time to it? Or maybe he did work on an update but it was never finished or released? IJ that was released 4/2008 was a much bigger license, so it makes sense that Stern would indeed focus more on that in early 2008, but I think that if Stern had really wanted to, they would have been able to finish and release new code to WOF. I don't remember if Keith commented on this on the Topcast interview, rec.games.pinball or somewhere else? I had WOF for a while, hoped for an update but finally sold the game.

It could be the same for Kiss, someone working on it as a side project but been told to prioritize a newer game over it. Stern is weighing which code to work on and how much, to get financially the best results. Short term thinking, focus on the new ones. Longer term, make sure that you don't leave a sour taste on customer's mouth. I agree with what's been said here many many times: as long as people buy games with incomplete code, Stern doesn't "have" to polish the code to the full - they just need to make it good enough, whatever that may be. When people vote with their wallet, things may change. I like Kiss (Pro) a lot as it is, and don't see many of the flaws listed here, but of course I too hope that it gets a solid update soon.

(Side note: someone claimed 3 years ago that there was a code update for WOF waiting for Gomez's approval. Never came through, though. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/any-word-on-metallica-code-its-been-over-2-weeks#post-914894 )

Edit: Keith confirms here that Stern didn't care much about WOF but discussed the possibility to finish the code with him: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/petition-for-lyman-to-finish-the-wof-code#post-72235

But it's not like they couldn't have put another programmer on the game to finish WOF. It was just abandoned. I honestly like WOF. The layout is great. There is nothing like it out there.

Just curious if you guys have idea on how to improve the kiss code.

I'm thinking to implement the cities it'd be cool to do something similar to Dr Who where each song has a "shot booster" on the playfield and ends up advancing a feature quicker or something liek that. Say Hotter than hell starts you with two demon locks or maybe another song has love gun lit from the beginning.

Another feature I think would be cool is a super jackpot shot where you loop the middle ramp over and over and the make some noise meter keeps going up and the crowd keeps getting louder and once you make so many shots ~10 then the love gun flasher starts pulsing on the right ramp and you have to nail that shot and as it come down the right return lane one of the kiss targets flashes, nail that then the GI turns to red and the demon head starts flashing like crazy and then you shoot Gene's mouth and the whole game goes nuts and you get a SUPER JACKPOT.

I think that would be bad ass. A sequence of shots like that really makes you feel good.

Anyone else have any ideas.

I think the first person who has the capability and means to redo/improve code will either 1. Make a shit ton of money or 2. Be sued by Stern for some infringement/copy-write violation, which is sad and only furthers peoples frustrations toward Stern. In any case, TAKE MY MONEY!...........Crap........I hope Stern does not read this and attempt to capitalize on selling code improvements, wouldn't put it past them at this point.

really really poor job by stern.
gonna be buying an alien pin with full throttle extra playfield and hopefully jjp #3. voting with my wallet. not gonna buy any new sterns till they start dropping code and making a page on their website with status of codes.
waiting for you stern i know you lurk here.

I'm surprised with pinball browser being able to swap the music that someone isn't out there altering code. They probably know Stern would put out a C&D pretty quickly.

Pinball browser allows you to change the assets that are called by the code. The code itself is not actually tampered with. And being a binary, I'm pretty sure it can't be. Unfortunately. (Although I'm sure some nerd will yell, "yes, it can!!")

Ya man! Why are you up so early thinking about codes?

Makes sense. I'm just saying that someone figured that out so I'm sure someone could reverse engineer Stern's boardset and produce some alternative code. I feel like some people on this forum have great programming skills.

making money to buy some pins.

I expect a disgruntled employee will eventually leak the development tools and compiler they use ... until then we can only hope.

Since it's bound to happen eventually, it would be nice if they'd release an SDK to pre-empt that, then the community could fix their shit for them. It'd probably be the best investment they ever made.

If code changes are provided via a "delta" file that can be applied against the official Stern code, then there should be no legal issue. You are not providing or distributing copyrighted Stern code. You are just distributing changes to the code which do not contain original code. This is similar to how the WPC competition ROMs are released as an xdelta file that you apply to the Williams ROMs. This way Rick can't complain about it. Well he could complain, but he would have no legal basis for any action to be taken.

One can only hope, but Stern will NEVER release an SDK. It would be a support nightmare for them since they would have to verify what software the game is using, is it causing the issues, etc. Just won't happen :/

Anyone hear an update on this at Expo?

Stern is committed to code!!

Yeah price keeps going through the rough while quality and ability to get pins to us quickly have declined. With KISS they also showed us how much they care about the code support...

Stern has really played the politics game recently. Saying one thing and doing another. I just hope the kiss owners keep this thread alive so people thinking about pulling the trigger on one of these expensive NIB games remembers how they're going to be treated ultimately and once the new smell wears off they're still going to have a game with half assed code for a long time if not forever.

I just returned from a long trip, so take this with a grain of salt, but I really dig the new code.

Completing the grid is a breath of fresh air and adds a ton of risk/reward with the shots, especially the right ramp. I also like the new sound effects.

Having said that, the song modes are still blah. They're not even modes, you just hit the flashing light because points.

There is still lots of potential, especially with song based modes and city integration, but the latest code is a step in the right direction.

I wouldn't spend another penny on Stern games until code is fully completed. More attention to ghost busters code and game of thrones than kiss. Totally unacceptable.. those that buy batman 1966 be careful . That's a lot of money for a pretty machine you did not play and don't know if the code will complete

I'm shocked there wasn't a code update for this at expo.

I was shocked Batman 66 wasn't flippable at Expo.

I was shocked Batman 66 dot matrix display couldn't be found on the head box? Some dingbat shoved a chinese cheapo LCD in its place??

i asked about KISS code at Stern tour, i was told Lonnie is going to work on it....

Absolutely and i hear Gary is overlooking this one due to the publicity it gets on here. .

Did they tell you which decade?

Yeah, this isn't something I'm really excited about.

So which will we see first, the next KISS update or the Aerosmith reveal in January?

Going to work on it? Us KISS owners are beyond screwed.

Yeah, the "we're working on the WWE code", that they didn't work on for ~12 months, then did a few weeks of work and released a couple of minor updates, then abandoned it again.

Such a shame. KISS has nice flow, great shots and a killer art package. Seems the only thing Stern cares about these days is their next release and how quick they can get it out. Hell BM66 wasn't even playable at the expo. Wtf? As soon as they start shipping Stern will blow that release off too and focus on Aerosmith or whatever for the new year.

Really disappointing they didn't release at the expo. Been 6 months since the last release. Ugh. I'm almost more frustrated that I cant buy a GB or BM until they update at this point. Trying to convince myself that Dialed in will be good at this point.

To be fair, I really like my kiss. I like new code too, but it's not as though the game isn't fun this way. The point everyone is making is valid, though. They need to finish their games.

Oh its fun for sure. I love the way it shoots. But with so many of these pins now going into homes, code needs to be more than that IMO to invest this type of money into them IMO.

I found after watching the play video of how to achieve monster scores, it's not as bad as it is made out to be. Not saying that the code doesn't need more, just that what is there can be enjoyed. The cities have to be coded, and maybe a couple more song slots added in though.

My scores of ~250M went way down after the videos lol. I'm a bad player and gunning for multi balls gets me the best scores

after work on current project....

I was also told they r trying to get ac/dc license again, and license for MET is good for 2 more years.