I think it is a matter of time now.
The money was not flowing so well for past 15 years or so.
Now that sales are up I hope they will start thinking more outside the box.

Loving the new designs they are coming up with though.

Ben Heck, JPop and Heighway all have original themes coming out.

Major two players are still focusing on bank accounts more than creativity business first I guess.

I have heard mention of Gary Stern saying when he contacted distrubutors over seas with an original theme, they only want to purchase 1 or 2....when it was a licensed theme it's 10 to 20. Since Striker Extreme was one of the last originals they did, and was primarily a flop (though pins were not selling like now)....I don't believe he is willing to stick his head out. JJP, maybe sometime...but at the rate they are coming out...could be a couple years.....my 2 cents

JJP is still struggling to gain traction and build up their capacity. They won't do an original theme till they feel secure. Stern's view point is why alienate the European operator market...gibe them what they want.

a wag, since i have no access to gary's books... i'd guess that he is operating on a slim enough margin that he cannot afford to sink the resources into designing and building a machine that doesn't have a built-in fanbase to generate "x" number of guaranteed sales... i dunno if his business could absorb the loss on the development costs if the machine doesn't sell...

another thought... "original themes" are really hard to implement, when you consider what people expect from a modern pin... in "the good old days", nobody expected storylines, levels, goals, etc. (essentially, people today expect a pin to play like a video game)... storylines/goals are "easy" when you have existing material that people are familiar with... there is a built-in logical progression of goals...

with an original theme, that becomes much more difficult, as not only do you have to develop the storyline, you have to "sell" it to the people buying the machine... since they are not familiar with the theme, it may (will?) be a hard sell to convince a buyer that it "makes sense" that "b follows a", and so on...

many people claim they want "original themes"... i'm not completely convinced that they would actually buy original themes...

chris

And considering it would be a multi-million dollar bet for the large companies, what is their upside? There doesn't appear to be one. At best, they spend MORE money to develop original content as opposed to license material and it sells comparably well. At worst, they flushed millions (from development and lost sales) and risk the entire company.

I'm a RAZA buyer, that game will be unmatched, but the pragmatist in me knows Gary (and probably Jack) can't go down that route, too much to lose.

...but he built that gawd-awful 'the pin' instead....

I have to say that i don't really care about themes much.
A good pin is a good pin regardless of theme.

It's all about the masses. I would LOVE an original theme (there are some popping up at collector prices), but for the majority...it wouldn't work.
There are many threads about why pinball is not making a comeback as fast as some would like. Likewise, there are threads outlining why keeping games in basements is detrimental to the hobby.
I think that Stern and the like, need licensed pins TO attract the masses back into pinball. What I have learned in life is that essentially - people are sheep. We are bombarded with advertisements that tell us to buy big screens, expensive cars, new computers the list goes on and on... Worse yet are the children of today that have the attention spans of fleas (if you don't believe me, google and read about the "new" monopoly game that is getting rid of the Jail square amongst others in an attempt to make it a faster game, competing with the lack of focus in todays kids).

It will alway's be a fairly safe bet in todays market to make a pin based on a best-selling movie or band. The fans are already proven to be out there. remember, we as pinball enthusiasts are an extremely small example of the population. The average joe doesn't care about depth and rulesets. They want bling and bang. They want fast, quick, mesmerizing entertainment - perhaps with a relatively good shot at achieving a wizard mode so they can feel productive. Isn't that why multi-balls are so easily achieved now-a-days?
I am actually surprised that with its success, they never made a Titanic pin!...maybe it would have sank?

I've played a few of the games that are currently being developed by the startup companies. Plenty of creativity there. Predator had some very creative modes, Full Throttle has an interesting layout. Haven't played Ben Heck's game, but that looks very creative and interesting to me. So the creativity is there, only these people are not employed (yet) by a large manufacturer.

What may be related: the smaller companies can take their time, while the bigger companies need to keep the production up and have their design teams overworked and under stress. Doesn't seem like a formula for success to me.

yup, dead on...

i look at the "one-off" guys as "really advanced hobbyists"... if their game "fails" (which it likely won't, for a variety of reasons), they (and an entire company) are unlikely to starve...

whereas gary is running a pinball company that requires regular production of games that will sell in order to survive...

two different business models...

More or less the same opinion as unigroove. There is creativity ! Great games are being made by the startups. Predator is a licensed theme, but it does not really prevent Skit-B from being creative. And we have a plethora of non licensed projects: Nemo, Full Throttle, America's most haunted, Wrath of Olympus, Whoa Nelly, RAZA...

I hope Stern will produce some of them. Us Europeans not interested in non-licensed pins seems a myth to me. I will get Nemo soon and am seriously considering buying America's most haunted and/or Wrath of Olympus.

www.Junkyardcats.net

Ben Heck and John Pop - Zombie adventure land.

I wholeheartedly agree that it would be nice to see some original titles. It's true that there are some of the upstarts making original themes, but probably zero chance of seeing Stern or JJP going this route like larger companies did in the past. Hollywood is content to barrage us with superhero reboots and that mentality has overtaken pinball too. Everything has to be branded, everything has to be an established intellectual property. Great for sales, I'm sure, but its boring.

1. Boring theme but great game.
2. Great theme but boring game.

I'll take number one please.

That looks great, wish it was available on iOS

There's too much risk in original themes. I recall seeing Attack from Mars in the arcade, but I passed it because it reminded me of a ripoff of Mars Attacks. If I had seen Independence Day, I may have tried that out. I think that an original theme needs to be universal but at the right time to succeed.

here's what i "know"... there are countless threads anticipating the "star trek" machine... there were countless threads anticipating "metallica"...

there are a few threads (albeit with very dedicated followers) about the one-off machines... if everyone was so hyped to buy original themed machines, i would expect that there would be countless threads anticipating those as well... but there aren't...

licensed themes sell... and gary is in the business of selling machines...

edit: and while i don't really consider jack part of this discussion (he has not established a "continuing" business yet, but he's definitely trying), he chose two his first two themes very well, imo... he's no dummy... he was in touch with the marketplace... if he felt an original theme would have sold, he would have built one, as that would have been a true differentiator vs. gary...

Here are many system 11 games that are very popular and are original themed games.
Bad Cats
Banzai Run
Big Guns
Black Knight 2000
Cyclone
Diner
Dr Dude
Earthshaker
F-14 Tomcat
Fire!
High Speed
Pin*Bot
Police Force
Pool Sharks
Riverboat Gambler
Road Kings
Space Station
Taxi
Whirlwind

Then there are some good original themed DMD games as well.
Road Show
Party Zone
Medieval Madness
Attack from Mars
Revenge From Mars
Theatre of Magic
Cirqus Voltaire
Whitewater
Funhouse
Cactus Canyon
Getaway: High Speed 2
Fish Tales
Pinball Magic
Champion Pub
Junkyard
Capcom Breakshot
Big Bang Bar (required a license?)
Hurricane

none of which have anything to do with the question at hand... there is a proverbial boatload of em's that were/are very popular as well... and virtually all of those are original themes...

the expectation level *when those games were introduced* was nowhere near what the expectation level is from a "modern game"...

let's take black knight for example... if that game was introduced *today*, how many people would be lining up to pay 7500 dollars for it?

how many of those games sell* for 7500 now? with the exception of the ones that are rare (which introduces other variables into the equation, namely availability and, ummm, "measuring"), none... take those two variables away, and none of those games even sniff 7500... if any of those games were introduced *today* at *current nib prices*, with virtually unlimited availability, the pinball world would revolt...

* sell... not "advertised price"...

This completely original game was done by one guy. It doesn't cost millions of dollars. What it takes is finding the person with creative talent. That's really hard to do in an era of nepotism and corporate CYA.

From the website:

Brendan Bailey buys, fixes, sells, appreciates, and designs pinball machines.
His love of the art, music, and design of arcade games knows no bounds. He was exposed to Williams pinball machines of the late 80's and early 90's at age 3 and has forever been a big a fan of creativity featured throughout those games.

The desire to create original pinball machines is what fueled Brendan's exploration into creativity. From (slowly) learning Photoshop to composing electronic music, Brendan owes all of the inspiration for his abilities to the work of the designers, artists, programmers, and musicians of late 80's Williams pinball. Brendan went on to study graphic and new media design at Hofstra University, a career path he never would have discovered had it not been for pinball.

Junkyard Cats is 100% original - Brendan created everything you see, hear, and experience during the game - even the voices! He cannot thank Christopher Leathely enough for creating the Future Pinball platform with such incredible passion and attention to detail.

Brendan lives on Long Island and works as the creative director for Generations Beyond, a digital design agency in Ronkonkoma, NY... and yes, they have pinball machines in the office!

Contact Brendan
Visit BrendanBailey.net

It could be me not getting it, but why is creativity in pinball associated with original themes? Every game, licensed or original theme, needs creativity. Else a licensed game will just sell on the name and turn out to be a huge disappointment. Creativity in licensed themes may be restricted in terms of what will be allowed with the art, but that's no excuse to not be creative with the design and find a good tie-in with the license.

Back in 1992

Well, to be fair, there is only so much you can do with traditional pinball designs. We'll see if the P3 ends up being a disruptive force since that truly is a different way to play pinball.

As others have stated, it's art/illustrating, toy concepts, fan base, free marketing and other pluses all rolled into a small cost per machine. This licensing cost is only beneficial and economical at the same time to a larger company making large amounts of games. This is why you won't see this too much with smaller companies, unless the theme is practically free, and why you will not see it with larger ones.

Why don't you?

i think there are two pieces here, and what you may be missing is the 2nd one...

creativity in actual gameplay design, which is what you are referring to... and yup, regardless of theme, every game needs that... although there are only so many things you can do before it's not really "pinball" any more...

creativity in game theme, which is what i "think" you may be missing... that is what most people are referring to when they discuss original themes... this is really the sticky wicket, as someone has to create a theme and a storyline that people will buy in to... creating a theme and a storyline is harder than it seems on the surface...

borrowing from the "virtual world" to illustrate the "hardness" of that... there are a gazillion "game apps" available for handheld devices... most are, ummm, not so good... but there are several that are rather good, but don't sell... then there is angry birds... in and of itself, the gameplay of angry birds isn't any better than many apps that don't sell... but the theme/storyline resonates with people...

in the virtual world, if someone creates a game and it doesn't sell, it's not the end of the world... however, in the "hard goods" world, it would be a killer if you didn't manage to hit the "magic spot", as the expenses required to produce a game (especially for a company that likely lives from machine to machine) would likely result in a real hardship for the company... i would "guess" gary needs every game they introduce to sell "x" amount of units, otherwise, there won't be a "next game"... gary can't afford to fling a thousand things up against the wall and hope one sticks, he has to make everything he flings up against the wall stick...

my opinion, anyway... which, along with $1.79, gets ya a medium coffee at dunkin...

yup, and then that opens up a whole other topic that i briefly alluded to in a previous post... when does a pinball machine stop being "pinball" and become "something else"... as a crusty old em guy (get off my lawn... ) that line got crossed long ago, but i think that for many, that line hasn't been reached yet...

Thank you for the kind words! I appreciate you taking the time to play the game and really get into it

I'm putting together a seminar for the 2013 Pinball Expo detailing the creation of this game to hopefully inspire some pinball creativity out there.

Also, there is a physics upgrade to Future Pinball available here:
http://vpuniverse.com/forums/files/file/442-future-pinball-physics-mod/

I'll hopefully get around to releasing a quick update for Junkyard Cats that is calibrated for the updated physics (I have it nearly finished) but just installing the update alone definitely improves things quite a bit.

-BB

It's funny, because there's another thread about the playfield sharing between Shrek and Family Guy, and whether there was a future in it. I think there is. Such an arrangement would allow a manufacturer to have two very different themes, like a sports game (World Cup Soccer 2014) and a TV theme (Walking Dead, because it always seems to come up). Just a few interchangeable toys (WCS: goal, TWD: drug store), and you could potentially widen the interest in a pinball machine.

Well they are the ones that would be taking the financial risk.

Gary Stern has already said many times. Licensed theme and over seas distributors say send a couple containers full. Unlicensed send one or two games.

Maybe if the collectors/hobbyists get a kick starter going to fund an unlicensed game, it could happen ?

LTG : )

We might see that (not counting Nemo with a production run of 30): make America's most Haunted, Full Throttle and/or Wrath of Olympus a reality !

I'd like to see some of the already existing online themes be produced into physical tables, like Propinball tables or zen pinball tables. Seems the most of the ground work is already done.

Were some of the old B/W original-themed games original or adapted when they failed to get licensing? (First Knight/Medieval Madness or WHOdunnit?/Clue as possible examples.)

How about a pinball game based on one of the most popular sitcoms of all time - Seinfeld? It would be pretty easy to design and manufacturer, since there would be no ramps or targets or pop bumpers. Just like the TV show, it would be a game about...nothing.

In Pinball Magazine No. 1 and 2 you can read that:
Police Force was originally designed to be Batman.
Dr. Dude originally started out as Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

IPDB.org probably has some notes with certain games about their origin.

How about a pinball game based on one of the most popular sitcoms of all time - Seinfeld? It would be pretty easy to design and manufacturer, since there would be no ramps or targets or pop bumpers. Just like the TV show, it would be a game about...nothing.

seinfeld1.jpg

http://pinside.com/pinball/archive/fireball-bally

Good idea. Take your company with your established/working business model and your millions of dollars to risk and give it a try.

Why not a re-skin of a solid table with a new theme.. cut the costs of development and make them limited.... I know if a re-skin with a "haunted house" like theme came out, I would be in...

yea, it's real easy for people to sit behind a keyboard and gamble other people's livelihoods...

and it's always easy to tell someone else to have cojones...

sure, you would... but how many others would pay for "the same game" with different artwork?

limited edition runs are "expensive" to produce... the costs (even if less than a full "new" table) are amortized across too few machines...

i'm not opposed to the theory (or even the practice) of original themes and/or limited runs... i'd be standing in line to give someone my money to buy "big juicy melons", for example... but i dunno how many others would be...

I've seen fifty billion variations of this rant. Where's YOUR creativity!?!?!?

Every time I launch a rubber band powered airplane, I seem to sense new dimensions.

One at least: me! (although price could be an issue)

I'm cool with a licensed theme or whatever (theme doesn't dictate a good game or not), I just wish they would come up with some new ideas for the actual layout, toys, shots, flow, etc. I know it has to eat quarters and still be accessible and fun, but we've been using the same skeleton for 70 years now. Or even 30 years if you want to use ramps and whatnot as a 'new generation'...

_{Post edited by callmesteam : spelling}

I want Castlevania as a pin. Saw someone post a clip of a video version awhile back.

You bring up a good point, the cost of the re-theme is spread over a smaller batch, which is more painfull. I wonder if it is worth it to change the equation slightly, the pin does not have to be that limited, was thinking something like Shrek, but you could drop the "limited" idea and make a "run em until orders run out". In any case, Stern knows the business better than I do, and I imagine it is prob not worth the effort...