(Topic ID: 248863)

Where is "On Ball Release" switch?

By paulace

3 months ago

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  • 18 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 70 days ago by paulace
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There have been 9 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

relay list (resized).JPG
lower circuit slick chick (resized).JPG
O switch score motor (resized).JPG
O switches XB relay (resized).JPG
O relay circuit (resized).JPG
DSC02891 (resized).JPG
DSC02894 (resized).JPG
ball release coil (resized).JPG
slick chick O relay (resized).JPG

#1 3 months ago

I'm working on a friend's "Slick Chick" and am chasing down a problem where the score motor just keeps running when the game is finished. I notice the O relay isn't de-energizing, and it's not a complicated circuit. I know where most of the switches are, but there's a n/c switch labeled "On Ball Release" over on the right side of the schematic. Where is that physically on the machine? Is the ball release that metal plate that rises to let the balls into the area where they can then be pushed into the shooter lane?

I know this is easy stuff for you old hands - I'm still learning Gottlieb's nomenclature.

slick chick O relay (resized).JPG
#2 3 months ago

Yes I would say that you are correct.

#4 3 months ago

"O" is the match relay currieddog paulace based on the schematic you shared. There should be a switch tied to the 5th and 4th trough switches, by a blue/white wire. On the opposite side of the 5th trough switch should be a white wire. So you need to trace the blue/white wire from the 4th trough switch to the next switch in line. The on ball release switch would have a blue/white wire going to one leaf and then (Guessing, as your photo does not show it, but other similar era gottlieb schematics do) the other leaf will be tied to a red/white wire.
is a prototype game of slick chick but you can see the two switches for 4th and 5th ball trough switch and the blue/white and white wires. I would trace from there to determine where the blue/white to red/white switch is. You can also find the 4th skill hole switch in the same photo(and in your game) it should have a blue/white wire attached to that switch, that wire should trace to the same on ball release switch, or a jumper that goes to said switch.

Hope this makes some sense...

#5 3 months ago

Thanks everyone. Yes, pinball419, what you said makes perfect sense. And yes, the other wire on that switch should be that common power side (red/white).

I won't be at the machine until tomorrow, but I'll take a pic or two just to confirm, and I'll let you know what I find.

Thanks for the help!

#6 3 months ago

If the blue/white wire color goes too many places, you can narrow it down by checking the colors on the Ball Release coil. One side (black) won't be interesting, but the other side of the coil should be a distinctive color. Once you know that you have identified the Ball Release coil, you can find it in the game and actuate it by hand (with the power off) and look for a switch that is detecting whether the plunger is pulled in.
.................David Marston

#7 3 months ago

Thanks David - I think I'll have some time with the machine today, so I'll see if I can identify the ball release coil definitely. I'll let you know what I find.

#8 3 months ago

According to the schematic, the ball release coil should have an OR-BL wire as the "interesting" one. So this must be the coil (second picture). And indeed, if I manually open that switch farthest to the left in the first photo (farthest away from the mech), then the motor stops running, so that must be the switch in series with the motor on the far right side of the first schematic snippet I posted (even though the wire colors are hard to decipher).

So the game ends, the score motor continues to run, the "O" relay is locked on (energized) and will get very hot quickly. If I manually trip the ball release lever, it does stop the score motor from running, and the balls fall into the area from which they can be pushed into the shooter lane. The score motor will stop running if I press the replay button to start another game as well. But shouldn't it stop running without having to do that? I've attached a bit more of the "O" relay circuit and it looks like the only thing that will turn off the "O" relay is that switch on the ball release. Am I understanding that correctly?
DSC02891 (resized).JPGDSC02894 (resized).JPGO relay circuit (resized).JPGball release coil (resized).JPG

#9 3 months ago

On a side note, the pop bumpers were pretty lame on this particular game, so I tried unwrapping layers of wire on the pop bumper coils. I hadn't done it before, and was a little cautious, so I only took off 2 layers of wire and dropped the resistance of the coils from 2.4 ohms to about 1.9 ohms. And it really worked nicely - livened up the action among the pop bumpers which you really need for this game. I probably should have taken a little more wire off....maybe later. But it's easy to do, and pretty effective if you haven't tried that particular trick yet.

#10 3 months ago

Manually pull in the coil. Make sure that switch is opening properly.

#11 3 months ago

Hi pinball419 - When I pull in the coil manually, it does work as you'd think from the schematic - it cuts off power to the "O" relay, the balls roll into the "ready" position, which opens the 4th and 5th ball trough position switches, so the power to "O" stays off. When I press the replay button on the front of the coin door, it does the same thing - energizes the ball return coil and everything is fine. The problem is that when the game ends, the "O" stays energized and the score motor keeps running. There should be something that cuts off the score motor as it sits there in the game over state without having to start another game, right?

#12 3 months ago

Without seeing the whole schematic, I have a theory: maybe the circuitry we are discussing that energizes the O coil is far enough up in the schematic that it's beyond a game-over switch that should be disabling the scoring and the like. In other words, O should be a step along the game over sequence that is followed by some other relay activation that will turn off the whole zone of the wiring where the O coil is getting power.
1. What does the relay chart say about O? Name of relay? How many A, B, C type switches?
2. What cut-offs are below the zone of the relay where the O coil is found? (Please include the name of each relay.)
3. Can you locate every one of the switches on relay O somewhere on the schematic? The most interesting ones might be involved in activating an XB or QB lock-in relay.
.................David Marston

#13 3 months ago

Hi dmarston - relay "O" is the match relay. There are 4 normally open switches on it. One is the hold switch in series with the relay. (It's pictured above)

2 more are in series with the XB (Game Over) relay - picture attached here.

The final switch is one of several switches in parallel with each other that can turn on the score motor - picture attached.

That should be it for the switches on the O relay.

O switch score motor (resized).JPGO switches XB relay (resized).JPG
#14 3 months ago

It might make sense in context...

lower circuit slick chick (resized).JPG
#15 3 months ago

So I'm trying to understand what happens when a game ends... The 4th and 5th ball trough switches close (see post 1), which completes a circuit to turn on the O relay. The 4 n/o switches on A then close, keeping O energized even if motor 1C opens. Another switch on O turns on the score motor. There is no score motor sequence chart on the schematic, but I'm assuming that at some point, motor 1A and 2C must close at the same time, completing the XB relay circuit (post 14) and energizing it. At that point, doesn't the XB n/c switch circled in green then open and cut off power to everything above it? So why is the O relay still energized?

I'll look at that XB switch and see if it is really opening.

relay list (resized).JPG
#16 3 months ago
Quoted from paulace:

I'm assuming that at some point, motor 1A and 2C must close at the same time, completing the XB relay circuit

Yes, the 1A in series with some other motor switch is there to shorten the pulse. So that's how O would get shut off.

If that switch on XB isn't opening as it should, there are lots of things that stay energized, so you have lots of ways to test whether that right-side rail has power.
.................David Marston

#17 3 months ago

Thanks dmarston - I went in today to look at it. With the game over and the score motor running, I tripped the XB relay manually (it's a latching relay) and the machine shut off normally. So I wondered if the coil that trips it was getting a pulse - it was hard to tell with a multimeter, but I hooked a light up to it and sure enough, it's getting a 27V pulse. It should be tripping and turning the game off. I'm guessing the coil is just open, but I'll check it out with a meter next time I get there.

3 weeks later
#18 70 days ago

Just cleaning up this thread - yes, the XB relay coil was open. I ordered one from PBR, put it in the machine, and that problem was taken care of.

This is a really fun machine, by the way!

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