Westminster, CO
With this mini renaissance of pinball, all the big name designers and software guys appear to be well employed by Stern or JJP or are making their own game... but one big name is missing: Pat Lawlor. What's he up to?
(Topic ID: 19767)
I read an article on him saying that in 2007 Pat Lawlor predicted the complete demise of pinball manufacturing within 5 years. I guess he was completely wrong knowing that it is a booming Market right now with all these new companies!
Quoted from jeffgoldstein2:I guess he was completely wrong
I think Pat was a lot closer than people realize. Pinball is surviving and thriving in the home market because it has transitioned to a boutique market with low production and high prices. As far as making money on route, it's mostly over due to lazy ops and uninterested customers who need a worthless redemption ticket or two instead of a real, physical, fun experience.
Tron is doing really well at Gameworks in IL and they have it set to dispense tickets. With WOZ coming out with the LCD screen it seems like they will grab a younger crowd which is great.
Quoted from jayhawkai:I think Pat was a lot closer than people realize. Pinball is surviving and thriving in the home market because it has transitioned to a boutique market with low production and high prices. As far as making money on route, it's mostly over due to lazy ops and uninterested customers who need a worthless redemption ticket or two instead of a real, physical, fun experience.
+1
Imo Pat was very correct in his predictions.
Stern was almost bankrupt when the new investors stepped in.
I wouldn't call this a booming market. Stern doesn't announce production numbers officially but from what I hear from distributors they sell more LE models than Pro..
What would a total run be for most recent games ? I have to guess 1000 ? 2000 max ?
Not exactly high numbers or a booming market to what was produced 10 years ago..
Haven't heard what Pat is doing lately. Last year he helped with the WhoaNellie playfields..
But this is the first time in 12 years for there to officially be competition in the market. It may not be nearly as profitable as it was 10 years ago but we have been seeing some great games being released for the home buyer in the last few years.
Quoted from sd_tom:I'd be more curious of if Brian Eddy would come back
Imagine what kind of machine he can build for JJP today. That would be something special.
Quoted from jeffgoldstein2:Imagine what kind of machine he can build for JJP today. That would be something special.
I 2nd this.
Brian eddy didn't build afm and mm alone. Those are as much Lyman Sheats work. That means he would need to team up at stern with
Lyman to get something great. There was some definite magic between those two.
JJP has plenty of talent. I'm excited for the first nordman release. Guaranteed to be unique. Nordman is the only designer that has no set style. All his games are unique to each other. Very cool.
Quoted from jeffgoldstein2:Imagine what kind of machine he can build for JJP today. That would be something special.
AFM3?
I'm sure Lawlor has been approached in all this and decided to not return. I heard he was working in the automotive industry somewhere, but someone else mentioned slots, so it could be people fueling the fire I guess.
My guess is that Lawlor has other work, has a team (they can't just hire him independently) and so much past success that he would be at the top end of cost for designers. We know Stern's recent financial troubles and JJP needs some successes behind him before going all out. I was just thinking it may be inching closer to time where it's cost effective for someone to hire Lawlor except that both Stern and JJP have established a seemingly perpetual rotation of on-staff designers.
Quoted from mnpinball:I don't think we have seen the last pingame from him yet
Me neither.
Quoted from dannunz:I predict Lawlor will be joining JJP in the near future. Just a wild guess.
you could email him at pat lawlor designs and he might give you a cryptic answer.
Quoted from jeffgoldstein2:Tron is doing really well at Gameworks in IL and they have it set to dispense tickets. With WOZ coming out with the LCD screen it seems like they will grab a younger crowd which is great.
How does the ticket dispensers work? More points gets you more tickets? One can hope they implement this everywhere....would be great for pinball.
Quoted from pinbill_blocked:I think i saw pat driving the shuttle at the airport.
Hopefully he's doing research for his next pin. Since OLD movies are "in" maybe he'll do something based on the Airplane! series. Lots of great callout possibilities.
-M
Quoted from mnpinball:I don't think we have seen the last pingame from him yet
If he is doing Stern's first LCD game . . . then I am in if the theme is okay.
Quoted from jeffgoldstein2:Imagine what kind of machine he can build for JJP today. That would be something special.
I second this big time. With JJP's attention to detail and willingness and desire to innovate it would be something special. Let's just hope JJP does a theme that will appeal to those of us without small children.
Quoted from TigerLaw:How does the ticket dispensers work? More points gets you more tickets? One can hope they implement this everywhere....would be great for pinball.
Yep, the more points you score the more tickets that come out. Tron actually has call outs that say "Tickets Rewarded" Its a pretty cool concept.
Though after reading about Brian Eddy's new company in creating facebook & phone Apps/Games who knows if he really would even have time to devlop another machine.
Quoted from sd_tom:I'd be more curious of if Brian Eddy would come back
I'd like to see Barry Oursler make another game too.
Quoted from mnpinball:I don't think we have seen the last pingame from him yet [
]
What do you know, mnpinball? You always seem to have inside info!
Quoted from sd_tom:I'd be more curious of if Brian Eddy would come back
There was an interview with Brian Eddy back in 2004 in which he states that he still has a lot of ideas for pinball & would do another pinball for Stern if they asked him & he had time. However since it's been 8 years since he said this, I'm not too hopeful. Link to the full interview here:
http://www.maddes.net/pinball/brian_eddy_200401.htm
Interesting. His prediction is the exact same reason I got into this hobby and why I want to get my keeper pins before the pinball mfg. demise actually happened.
Kind of eerie that my future keepers are all Lawlor designed pins, too. Not on purpose, they're just the ones I like the best and have the most memories with.
Quoted from system11:I'd like to see Barry Oursler make another game too
+1. His notoriously large outlane drains have nearly caused me to nearly put my fist through the PF glass many times. I still think he is one of the best
Quoted from system11:I'd like to see Barry Oursler make another game too.
+++1 Barry has made some amazing games. I tried to contact him awhile back and never heard from him. I haven't tried lately but he's one person I'd love to chat with.
Also, I wonder what Mark Ritchie is up to these days?
While it's nice to imagine what the classic designers could come up with if they were back in the game, I'd be more interested in seeing what a "new generation" of pinball designers could come up with.
Quoted from system11:I'd like to see Barry Oursler make another game too.
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/oursler-underappreciated
+1
Quoted from PinballHelp:Also, I wonder what Mark Ritchie is up to these days?
Mark works at Play Mechanix.
Quoted from TigerLaw:If he is doing Stern's first LCD game . . . then I am in if the theme is okay.
I second this big time. With JJP's attention to detail and willingness and desire to innovate it would be something special. Let's just hope JJP does a theme that will appeal to those of us without small children.
I highly doubt Pat will ever do anything for Stern again.
The midwest campus for JJP is Pat's building. How many people still do not know this info ?
Quoted from toyotaboy:Technically last pin lawlor worked on was csi, just 4 years ago. I think by a lawlor pin, everyone means an original, which won't come out of stern.
Yes, Stern has hired him off and on, and it does seem that JJP might make a better fit for Lawlor, but thus far JJP doesn't appear to be straying from licensed games any more than Stern.
Quoted from PinballHelp:+++1 Barry has made some amazing games. I tried to contact him awhile back and never heard from him. I haven't tried lately but he's one person I'd love to chat with.
Also, I wonder what Mark Ritchie is up to these days?
While it's nice to imagine what the classic designers could come up with if they were back in the game, I'd be more interested in seeing what a "new generation" of pinball designers could come up with.
This. We need young blood to come in with new visions and ideas. Innovation is the key. Bring in new peopleb and let their new ideas blossom.
Quoted from jeffgoldstein2:I read an article on him saying that in 2007 Pat Lawlor predicted the complete demise of pinball manufacturing within 5 years. I guess he was completely wrong knowing that it is a booming Market right now with all these new companies!
He explains he didn;t really say it like that on the TOP podcast in 2010...you can DL them here...
http://www.pinrepair.com/topcast/past.php
That part is around 27 minutes in...
Quoted from pinball_keefer:Mark works at Play Mechanix.
I thought he was working for raw thrills?
Quoted from gatordad:I thought he was working for raw thrills?
Those two companies work together very closely But last I heard he was at under the Play Mechanix Company
Utrecht
Quoted from mnpinball:I highly doubt Pat will ever do anything for Stern again.
The midwest campus for JJP is Pat's building. How many people still do not know this info ?
That is a huge jump from being a landlord to designing a pinball machine again.
Maybe Pat should go off on his own like JPop or Ben Heck.
Might be the only way to ever see a new PL pin again.
LTG 
Quoted from gatordad:I thought he was working for raw thrills?
Play Mechanix is technically (afaik) a wholly owned subsidiary of Raw Thrills. But he is an employee of PM. I worked there for 2 years, so I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about here. Mark is a great guy that went to bat for me a few times (something I won't soon forget), but for me personally it didn't make much sense to turn down JJP.
Quoted from TheLaw:He explains he didn;t really say it like that on the TOP podcast in 2010...
To summarize, Pat he said that 5 year prediction was true if you purposefully tailor the game to the few collectors, which is admitting there is no longer a street market for your product, and it will work but not for long. That wouldn't be true if an effort was made to keep the game alive, in arcades--meaning innovate, not Pin2000 type innovation just smaller things here and there that make it feel new (he obviously held back on details). He said at this point redemptions include more of this innovation than pinball machines.
The answer to the question is that he appears to have been working on redemptions. The fact that JJP rents space from him is interesting, and JJP also deals with redemptions, so it's more likely that if they have a relationship it's with redemptions. Whether or not they come together on a new an innovative pinball machine designed to bring in new players and interest in the arcade is the real question. Sounds like Jack's speeches doesn't it?
Just an FYI. Pat is on Twitter. Granted, he doesn't post all that much. But he does gives some hints of what is to come.
-Aaron
Iowa Pinball Club
Whenever I read this thread title I always see Lawlor in a red/white striped shirt and hat with round black glasses and a cane. Where is he? I found the wizard but... Where's Lawlor??
Quoted from pinball_keefer:Play Mechanix is technically (afaik) a wholly owned subsidiary of Raw Thrills. But he is an employee of PM. I worked there for 2 years, so I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about here. Mark is a great guy that went to bat for me a few times (something I won't soon forget), but for me personally it didn't make much sense to turn down JJP.
We're glad you didn't!
Quoted from Baiter:To summarize, Pat he said that 5 year prediction was true if you purposefully tailor the game to the few collectors, which is admitting there is no longer a street market for your product, and it will work but not for long.
I tend to agree. Pinball as an industry is over and has been over. A "new age" of pinball has the potential to begin, but as of yet, I'm still seeing a lot of "retro" games. Everybody is hush-hush about items like TCP/IP-connectivity in the games. IMO, this is what's going to open up new markets. If the new machines coming out are just "retro" games, then they'll be pandering to an ever-diminishing group of older collectors. That's not a market that's growing.
I still see modern pinball manufacturers making "retro" games. It remains to be seen if there's any new "next generation" stuff coming out. A LCD in the backbox or LED lighting isn't anything revolutionary. Now if the game had a camera and pushed gameplay video up to a server that tabulated and managed peoples' performance and made individual gameplay part of a larger world-wide "meta game", then we'd be onto something really cool. Of course, like P2K, the old timers would hate it, but that's fine... pinball is only going to last if new people get into the hobby, and they're used to millisecond latency and world-wide interactive competition. Pinball has to bring it to compete.
This is one reason why I can see newer/younger designers bringing more to the game. They grew up on technology the old designers only dreamed out.
1 month later
Greetings all,
I thought it was worth bumping this thread with this info...
Pat Lawlor and John Youssi are teaming up to create a new table for the revival of the Pro Pinball videogame series. Well, that's the plan. Kickstarter to be started 3rd September:
http://www.pinballnews.com/news/propinball/index.html
Anyone see that coming?
Alright PL, JP, SR, LS are in a boat.
Noone falls off who / what is left?
Nothing but the best pinball ever made. 
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