(Topic ID: 299882)

Where did the rest of them go? Pinball export...

By Pinbub

2 years ago


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  • 19 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by EJS
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    #1 2 years ago

    I'm starting this thread to discuss export machines. Not pins that are being reimported but more a thread about where they were exported to originally.

    I knew there were exports in the 80's and 90's. I assumed there were exports in the 70's but honestly I was naive. I figured most games made in the 60's and 70's were mostly sold here in the U.S.

    I picked up a 1964 Stop N Go the other day. I was surprised when I looked at production numbers and it looks like 1675 were made and roughly 900 stayed here in the states. I then looked into other Williams machines from 64 and it seems it wasn't uncommon for nearly half or more to go overseas, but where did they go? I know I'll get answers like "Europe", but are there specific countries that got substantially more than others? In other words were there "pinhead" countries way back then? I would think Germany and Great Britain but I don't know.

    I'd also be interested in differences between U.S. and export machines. Think the alternate Kiss backglass.

    Any info would be great, now I'm curious!

    -6
    #2 2 years ago

    There was only one reason for the alternate Kiss backglass - it had a representation of the nazi SS logo on it (KIZZ)

    There is a big wide world OUTSIDE the USA in case you didn't know! A lot more going on that some Americans know or understand. Perhaps that's why more than half of all pinball production was shipped OUTSIDE the USA. Easy to see exactly what the problem is when you watch this with Jay Leno as host:

    #3 2 years ago

    I think France and Germany are/were the biggest pinball countries in Europe.

    #4 2 years ago

    To the best of my knowledge pinball was exported to Australia in the 50's, possibly earlier. The father of one of our parts distributors and professional game restorers here was very active importing games. I'm sure someone will chime in with exact information.

    #5 2 years ago
    Quoted from Tuukka:

    I think France and Germany are/were the biggest pinball countries in Europe.

    Spot on.
    France has a rich history of pinball culture.
    Look into “Bagatelle”.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagatelle
    If you look at the pinmap of France there’s still a ton of WPC games on location there.
    I go to Paris a few times a year and you can always find places to play.

    Also post war Europe in places like France and Germany had a lot of exposure to American culture with troops being stationed there after the war.
    When machines were making the transition from EM to solid state some were produced in both forms. The French were resistant to the newer technology and still wanted EM games.

    There’s some variants that were specifically for the European market.
    A good example is the alternate KISS back glass where the they replaced the lightning bolt SS with regular SS so that it did not resemble letters the Nazi Schutzstaffel, which were banned in Germany after the war.

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    #6 2 years ago

    Somewhere around the house I have my grandfather’s bagatelle, which is dated 1909.
    Not one of the exports that the OP refers to of course, but I’ll wager pinball has been thriving in Australia since the 1940s with so many American troops stationed here during the war

    #7 2 years ago

    Watch 1960s French films, especially Godard, and there is pinball absolutely everywhere.

    #8 2 years ago
    Quoted from pins4u:

    There was only one reason for the alternate Kiss backglass - it had a representation of the nazi SS logo on it (KIZZ)
    There is a big wide world OUTSIDE the USA in case you didn't know! A lot more going on that some Americans know or understand. Perhaps that's why more than half of all pinball production was shipped OUTSIDE the USA. Easy to see exactly what the problem is when you watch this with Jay Leno as host:

    #9 2 years ago

    Well thanks for the snotty response. I'm not some sheltered kid. I've traveled quite a bit in fact. Just because there's a whole big wide world out there doesn't mean I know the pinball market in the 1960's. That's why I asked. I'm not surprised that machines were exported. I'm surprised that in some cases more seem to have exported than kept here. I didn't say I didn't know WHY Kiss had an alternate backglass. I was well aware of why. I wondered if there other similar examples of backglass differences due to possibly other offensive material.

    Nice try though.

    #10 2 years ago

    Wow, this is drifting off course rapidly. I own bagatelles. I was just wondering what markets machines might have gone to in the 50's, 60's etc. I get that France played a major part on bagatelles. I also know that the U.S. pretty much brought Pinball to where it is today. There's this place known as Chicago in this big wide world.

    Not trying to be an ass but I thought others might wonder as well.

    #11 2 years ago

    you can work it out for yourself, DMD era games, what languages can you set them to?

    Brazil was also a big market, but they seem to have made their own machines

    #12 2 years ago
    Quoted from PopBumperPete:

    you can work it out for yourself, DMD era games, what languages can you set them to?
    Brazil was also a big market, but they seem to have made their own machines

    Thanks for your response. I know what you're saying about DMD games and not so much surprised by exports from the 1980's and newer. I was just surprised that such a large number of machines were exported, specifically in the 1960's.

    I didn't know pinball was popular in Brazil. 1:12AM and I already learned something new today!

    #13 2 years ago

    Brazil assembled "kits" mostly, sent to them under an agreement with most of the manufacturers as there was, and still is, a very high import tax on pinball machines into Brazil.

    If they are "Made in Brazil", even if "Made" just means 'assembled', they don't pay this tax.

    #14 2 years ago
    Quoted from pins4u:

    Brazil assembled "kits" mostly, sent to them under an agreement with most of the manufacturers as there was, and still is, a very high import tax on pinball machines into Brazil.
    If they are "Made in Brazil", even if "Made" just means 'assembled', they don't pay this tax.

    Much like VW buses to South Africa and Australia. Cool, I didn't know that! Thanks for the info.

    #15 2 years ago
    Quoted from Pinbub:

    I didn't know pinball was popular in Brazil. 1:12AM and I already learned something new today!

    https://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?mfgid=367&sortby=name&searchtype=advanced

    Williams made kits for the Spanish market
    https://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?searchtype=advanced&mfgid=83

    Stern (classic) made kits for the Australian market
    https://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?searchtype=advanced&mfgid=681

    I know my Gottlieb Mustang EM was not made in the USA
    I think it was built in Italy

    #16 2 years ago
    Quoted from PopBumperPete:

    https://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?mfgid=367&sortby=name&searchtype=advanced
    Williams made kits for the Spanish market
    https://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?searchtype=advanced&mfgid=83
    Stern (classic) made kits for the Australian market
    https://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?searchtype=advanced&mfgid=681
    I know my Gottlieb Mustang EM was not made in the USA
    I think it was built in Italy

    Thank you! That's the kind of info I'm looking for.

    #17 2 years ago
    Quoted from Coindork:

    There’s some variants that were specifically for the European market.
    A good example is the alternate KISS back glass where the they replaced the lightning bolt SS with regular SS so that it did not resemble letters the Nazi Schutzstaffel, which were banned in Germany after the war.

    Boy is that stupid considering the band is Jewish.

    #18 2 years ago
    Quoted from Hazoff:

    Boy is that stupid considering the band is Jewish.

    They had no choice, since the swastika and Sig-rune (lightning bolt S) symbols are banned by the law in Germany.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgesetzbuch_section_86a

    #19 2 years ago

    Years ago I got in on a container of games coming back from Italy, so there must have been a market there at one time. I bought a Tee’d Off and think all I needed to do was change a jumper on the power line.

    #20 2 years ago
    Quoted from pins4u:

    Brazil assembled "kits" mostly, sent to them under an agreement with most of the manufacturers as there was, and still is, a very high import tax on pinball machines into Brazil.
    If they are "Made in Brazil", even if "Made" just means 'assembled', they don't pay this tax.

    Was this for US manufacturer games like Bally/Williams/Data East? It’s not the case for Taito games.

    #21 2 years ago

    I send a lot of repro ramps to France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway and Australia. Not so much to other places. I am surprised that I have never sent one to any part of Asia.

    #22 2 years ago
    Quoted from pins4u:

    There was only one reason for the alternate Kiss backglass - it had a representation of the nazi SS logo on it (KIZZ)
    There is a big wide world OUTSIDE the USA in case you didn't know! A lot more going on that some Americans know or understand. Perhaps that's why more than half of all pinball production was shipped OUTSIDE the USA. Easy to see exactly what the problem is when you watch this with Jay Leno as host:

    Wow, sad state of our education system! I'm sure its worse now with schools being shutdown for the past year.

    #23 2 years ago
    Quoted from pins4u:

    There was only one reason for the alternate Kiss backglass - it had a representation of the nazi SS logo on it (KIZZ)
    There is a big wide world OUTSIDE the USA in case you didn't know! A lot more going on that some Americans know or understand. Perhaps that's why more than half of all pinball production was shipped OUTSIDE the USA. Easy to see exactly what the problem is when you watch this with Jay Leno as host:

    Forgive me , Chad and jaybird

    #24 2 years ago
    Quoted from JodyG:

    I send a lot of repro ramps to France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway and Australia. Not so much to other places. I am surprised that I have never sent one to any part of Asia.

    Quite a few pins also went to Greece

    #25 2 years ago

    Besides the USA , Western Europe gets the most but as a single country , Australia is huge , watch from the 35 minute.

    -1
    #26 2 years ago
    Quoted from Tuukka:

    They had no choice, since the swastika and Sig-rune (lightning bolt S) symbols are banned by the law in Germany.

    Its still stupid.

    #27 2 years ago

    The pinmap paints some pretty interesting pictures as far as machine locations and popularity within countries and regions.
    I think Germany is a particularly interesting one because it wasn’t that long ago that it was divided into two countries by the Iron Curtain (East and West Germany). Even today there are far more collectors and locations in what was West Germany than there are in what was East Germany.
    The exceptions being major cities like Berlin and Dresden where pinball has emerged since the wall came down.

    I was in the Czech Republic a few years ago and got to play at this place.
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/czech-pinball-community-cz-en-language
    I buy and sell coins for a living so I have this funny habit of always looking at coin doors to see what currency the coin eject buttons are denominated in.
    This place gathered up there machines from various places since pinball wasn’t really a thing in Czechoslovakia before communism fell.
    They had machines denominated in French Francs, German Deutschmarks, English Pence etc.

    You can basically draw a line across the entirety of Europe up until the late 80s and see where pinball was exported to up until that point. After the fall of communism in Eastern Europe pinball gradually began to trickle into these other places. Some it still really has not taken off all that much.

    Mexico and South America are a mystery to me.
    If you look at the map there are very few locations or collectors in Mexico outside of one major club in Mexico City. I’m not sure why this is, but it seems that pinball is just not all that popular there.

    In South America, Brazil seems to have the most.
    I have a friend who grew up in Rio who tells me they had a lot of arcades there when he was a kid and they played a lot of pinball and arcade games growing up. I have another friend who grew up in Puerto Rico and he said that they were getting pretty much every new machine that came out back in the 80s. Puerto Rico is one that makes a lot of sense to me since it’s an American possession.

    I don’t know much about the Asian market, but if you look on the map it’s pretty sparse. Japan has a few collectors and locations, which makes sense since gaming is pretty heavily embedded culturally.
    I’m actually surprised that there are not more machines located in the Philippines considering the long history of US involvement there and the large military presence there.

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    #28 2 years ago

    nice groupings

    #29 2 years ago
    Quoted from screaminr:

    Forgive me , Chad and jaybird
    //<![CDATA[
    window.__mirage2 = {petok:"64600e71c997ba5e9e6a1253fc12d8afd67e14ca-1630944749-1800"};
    //]]>

    Haha, I know there’s more to Australia than Koalas, Crocodile Dundee and James Bond.

    #30 2 years ago

    Italy imported a lot of Gottlieb pins in the 60s. I have a sample English Hyde Park that was tested in the US market before they made 900+ units in Italian to export to Italy.

    Spain and Portugal had several pinball manufacturers in the 70s and 80s, so I’m not sure how many US pins were exported to these markets in the 70s and 80s.

    #31 2 years ago

    Italy had a lot of machines. They even got their own titles

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    #32 2 years ago

    I would have guessed more in Spain since I own 2 Spanish machines. Perhaps they're not on Pinside as much and stick to Spanish speaking forums?

    #33 2 years ago
    Quoted from bluespin:

    Italy imported a lot of Gottlieb pins in the 60s. I have a sample English Hyde Park that was tested in the US market before they made 900+ units in Italian to export to Italy.
    Spain and Portugal had several pinball manufacturers in the 70s and 80s, so I’m not sure how many US pins were exported to these markets in the 70s and 80s.

    You beat me to it. And apparently “flipper” was a naughty word over there. Had to be taken off the machines

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