(Topic ID: 9429)

where can i find clay's guides?


By the_pin_family

7 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 176 posts
  • 75 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by arcademojo
  • Topic is favorited by 37 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    There have been 4 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    IMG_1585_(resized).JPG
    pinguides_002.jpg
    image.jpg
    2013-06-23-14-01-24-580515822.jpeg

    There are 176 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 4.
    #101 6 years ago
    Quoted from tracelifter:

    The problem is that the material is copyrighted and I won't copy it and distribute it without notarized permission from Clay.
    I am using it with his permission, I don't own it.
    His stuff, his rules.

    I'm just saying if anyone has any reservations, guilt, bad dreams, intense pain, profuse sweating, difficulty breathing, violent convulsions, loss of consciousness or.....just blindly send Clay $10.

    #102 6 years ago
    Quoted from KenLayton:

    I understand some of the photographs in the guides belonged to other people. Photographs can be and are copyrighted. The owners can "lend" their photographs to be used in a work by granting their permission to do so. The photograph owner can also "revoke" that permission at any time for any reason.

    Exactly. But the photographer can't say because his photos were used, that all the other content should be his or in the public domain.

    I gave Clay some photos for his guides as well. And I have no problem with him doing whatever he wants with them. If I did, I'd ask him to remove the pictures, he would remove the pictures and that would be the end of it.

    This is a non-issue.

    #103 6 years ago

    Look at all the bitches here crying about copyright, but their avatars are copyrighted images.

    #104 6 years ago
    Quoted from cichlid:

    Look at all the bitches here crying about copyright, but their avatars are copyrighted images.

    Nice.

    #105 6 years ago
    Quoted from cichlid:

    Look at all the bitches here crying about copyright, but their avatars are copyrighted images.

    Yup, my avatar is really me. I own that photograph outright.

    © 1999 by Ken Layton

    #106 6 years ago
    Quoted from KenLayton:

    Yup, my Avatar is really me. I own that photograph outright.
    © 1999 by Ken Layton

    You are a wholesome man.

    #107 6 years ago
    Quoted from cichlid:

    Look at all the bitches here crying about copyright, but their avatars are copyrighted images.

    My avatar is a picture I took. So yea, I own it. If someone wanted to use it, I'd entertain that.

    It's nice when people share stuff.

    What isn't nice is when people think they are entitled to your hard work whether you agree or not.

    If I took a bunch of pictures and then the photography community suddenly thought they owned my work, and didn't show me any respect by taking all my photographs and putting them up for download by third parties, I'd think long and hard about whether or not I'd put up any more pictures.

    #108 6 years ago

    The amount of people that don't show him respect is miniscule..most people don't even know what happened...

    Anyhow this topic has been discussed 1146 times already, so it's probably pointless..

    #109 6 years ago
    Quoted from tomdotcom:

    The amount of people that don't show him respect is miniscule..most people don't even know what happened...

    It may be miniscule but that (vocal) minority has managed to run one of the most generous and helpful people ever in the history of pinball, into hiding.

    It's pretty sad. Do people really know how much he's contributed? How much content he has historically made available to the community? Not just the PinRepair guides, but dozens of different web sites, clubs, speaking at events, teaching other people, hundreds of hours of podcasts... interviews with virtually everybody in the industry, all the video repair DVDs, etc... Clay has been an integral part in the establishment of almost every major pinball museum, from PHOF to PPE. He's done nothing but help other people. And still there is a small contingent of people that take every opportunity to talk sh*t about him. I don't blame him for going underground. Maybe if more people stood up to the people attacking him, things might be different? None of his critics really have any legitimate arguments. But what he's contributed to the community is undeniable.

    #110 6 years ago

    I agree he's awesome.

    I still think the guides should be made available without having to "pirate" them

    #111 6 years ago
    Quoted from tomdotcom:

    I agree he's awesome.
    I still think the guides should be made available without having to "pirate" them

    I agree.

    Hell, I think he should have them professionally-printed and charge a nice chunk of change for them. Who wouldn't buy them?

    #112 6 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    intense pain, profuse sweating, difficulty breathing, violent convulsions, loss of consciousness

    Ahh, the Black Widow, isn't she lovely and so deadly?

    #113 6 years ago

    I would guess there are maybe 50 or less people that have any issues with him.

    There are probably 20,000 people that love what he's done

    I agree he should make DVDs and sell them for charity or for himself...

    #114 6 years ago
    Quoted from tomdotcom:

    I still think the guides should be made available without having to "pirate" them

    I also think that the Gottlieb manuals should be freely-available like the B/W stuff is, but some dude owns the rights and won't let people post that stuff. It's annoying.

    See: http://www.ipdb.org/gottlieb_cease.html

    So should we form a lynch mob and go after this guy, Bob Fesjian and attack his reputation publicly because he has the audacity to exercise his rights to control the content he owns? Do you think if everybody pirates the manuals that will make him relax his control?

    I don't know what the answer to the situation is, but it seems like you can't fault a guy for wanting to control something he's either bought or created himself.

    IMO, the Gottlieb situation is even more aggravating, because you have people who own machines and can't conveniently get the manuals.

    #115 6 years ago

    I don't mind paying for them, but that's not even an option.

    I am done on this topic. I've said what I wanted to say already

    #116 6 years ago

    The topic of Clays guides has been discussed enough. The copyright to the guides belongs to Clay. If he doesn't want them online for whatever reason, that's his say.

    I urge all of you who posted links sites hosting them (illegally) to remove those links (Pinside community rules). Pinside can not allow linking to copyrighted material and I am obliged to make sure we don't. So please take down any of such links if you posted them so we don't get into legal trouble. Thanks!

    #117 6 years ago
    Quoted from cichlid:

    Look at all the bitches here crying about copyright, but their avatars are copyrighted images.

    You need to read the law on fair use, I can take a picture of the cloisonne medallion on my game and post it not a problem, if I copy the medallion and offer it for sale then I would have a problem.

    Ex: I can make a set of Metallica siderails for my game and personal use but if I start making them and selling them then I will have a problem, if Metallica sued me they would win.
    Google Metallica vs Napster.

    #118 6 years ago
    Quoted from ChadH:

    Ahh, the Black Widow, isn't she lovely and so deadly?

    I think what i admire most about her is her in born need to dominate, possess......................

    #119 6 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Love 'em or hate 'em, we all owe a debt to Clay, who through his guides, have kept more games out of the dump than any other person.

    I say right on Clay!

    Besides all of the above, his TOP videos featuring Shaggy & Norm were not only highly educational, but quite hilarious.

    Buy yours here:

    http://www.pinrepair.com/top/

    TOP 3, 4, & 7 would be a good start for most Pinsiders, but all periods are available.

    Some of the Best $9-Per you'll ever spend pin-wise (and the majority of proceeds go to the PHOF).

    #120 6 years ago
    Quoted from NM:

    Besides all of the above, his TOP videos featuring Shaggy & Norm were not only highly educational, but quite hilarious.
    Buy yours here:
    http://www.pinrepair.com/top/
    TOP 3, 4, & 7 would be a good start for most Pinsiders.
    Some of the Best $9-Per you'll ever spend pin-wise.

    Agree 100%

    I never knew how they got the shine on shooter rods.....

    #121 6 years ago
    Quoted from cal50:

    Agree 100%
    I never knew how they got the shine on shooter rods.....

    And if you attended a few of his talks at Expo in the late 2000's you'd have seen a few other of Shaggy's assistants and their tricks.

    #122 6 years ago
    Quoted from bowz:

    I really don't think we need to go this whole debacle at Pinside.
    In short, Clay was trying to raise money for I believe a Pinball Museum by charging $10 for his guides, and the RGP had a huge hissy-fit about it, so he took them down for good.
    If you go to RGP and search for it, I'll bet you'll find the whole story.
    I've seen Clay post on here numerous times, and I'm guessing(but not positive) that if you email Clay and tell him you'd like to get the guides he used to have and would be willing to make a donation to his museum/charity(I forgot what it was), he'd find a way to get them to you.
    For all that guy has done for pinball repair, he sure does that a lot of flak from haters.
    He just sold a bunch of games on a thread here a week or so ago, for what I thought were really reasonable prices compared to where they're selling for now.
    But back to the OP-hopefully you're able to acquire those guides, because they're extremely useful.

    Being a close friend of Clay's, I have had this discussion and his answer has always been, if he has the time to remove and replace other people's work from the guides, he'll do it and release them again. It's just not been a priority with all the other things he's been doing. I was sad to see them go because they helped me a lot when I was on the road and needed to learn something quickly. His general answer is just "the guides are gone" for now.

    2 weeks later
    #123 6 years ago

    I was one of those people that took pictures and phone calls from Clay asking about this and that. I gave him the information he was asking for and many times i even took pictures that are on his repair page. Once i gave the information to him i felt it was his to do as he pleases. That's why i GAVE it to him. As far as the pages being available and they should be put back and so on. Who do you think payed to keep the web page alive for the time it was available? Clay did. All that time all the work all the things given to him for the page and yet people for some reason think it should be free to them just because. Everyone has a different opinion on this. What he owns and doesn't own and so on. To the people that think it should be there and free please create your own repair pages and put them up for everyone to copy, print and pass around. I'll be happy to take some pictures to give to you too.

    Why hasn't anyone demanded that "Cliffy protectors" make available to everyone the dimensions, type of metal and where to get the materials?

    “The strong-minded rise to the challenge of their goals and dreams. The weak-minded become haters.”

    #124 6 years ago
    Quoted from dragster73:

    I was one of those people that took pictures and phone calls from Clay asking about this and that. I gave him the information he was asking for and many times i even took pictures that are on his repair page. Once i gave the information to him i felt it was his to do as he pleases. That's why i GAVE it to him. As far as the pages being available and they should be put back and so on. Who do you think payed to keep the web page alive for the time it was available? Clay did. All that time all the work all the things given to him for the page and yet people for some reason think it should be free to them just because. Everyone has a different opinion on this. What he owns and doesn't own and so on. To the people that think it should be there and free please create your own repair pages and put them up for everyone to copy, print and pass around. I'll be happy to take some pictures to give to you too.
    Why hasn't anyone demanded that "Cliffy protectors" make available to everyone the dimensions, type of metal and where to get the materials?
    “The strong-minded rise to the challenge of their goals and dreams. The weak-minded become haters.”

    Technically I think you are right. We pay to have information in books just as we would pay to have a product.
    However, I think morally & for the hobby, these not being freely available hurts the hobby & who among us wants that?
    No doubt I've fixed things on my games solely due to his guides. If they weren't around I could of figured it out but there would of been a lot of bothering people on forums for help & the whole process would of taken longer. Longer to where some people might just give up out of frustration.

    These guides give the average guy like myself the ability to own & fix my own games. If this were 1993, no way would I attempt owning an older game unless it were pristine & needed no work. But even then a transistor could blow or whatever. I also don't have any pinball repair guys that even live within 2 hours of me, so I can't just call up somebody to fix my problem nor would I have the cash to pay said guy. Have to do it all myself.

    I feel bad for anybody who has issues with games & aren't aware of or can't access these guides. Pinwiki is OK, but there are huge holes in information compared to Clay's guides. & when just starting out with the hobby & running into all sorts of issues, yes you can ask for help on forums but you also don't want to be the guy annoying everybody with every problem that pops up. Also let's be honest, nobody who even tries to help has all the great info from Clay's guides readily available in their brain. The irony is that I've pulled up the guides before to help people who wouldn't of had to ask for help if they had the guides themselves.

    So Clay is perfectly within his rights (as long as the contributors to the guides don't care) to do what he pleases. But it does hurt the hobby & potential hobbyists not having the guides available to them.

    #125 6 years ago
    Quoted from ChadH:

    Ahh, the Black Widow, isn't she lovely and so deadly?

    These words he speaks are true....we're all humanary stew...we don't pledge allegiance to....

    The black widow!

    #126 6 years ago
    Quoted from dragster73:

    To the people that think it should be there and free please create your own repair pages and put them up for everyone to copy, print and pass around. I'll be happy to take some pictures to give to you too.

    Here ya go, have at it:

    http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

    I wrote most of the home model pinball section and provided most of the photographs.

    #127 6 years ago

    One picture i took for an ST:TNG problem was in the guides.
    Clay asked me to take a picture of the tieback.... and asked if he could use it.

    Sure i said, i was honored that this guy would use my picture.
    Been a source of knowledge for many.

    Thor-NL - Jelle

    2 years later
    #128 3 years ago

    All very interesting regards clays guides.... So jump forward 2yrs now give or take to a new pinball hobbyist thirsty for knowledge and has anything changed regards this or should I just let sleeping dogs lie?

    #129 3 years ago

    I just bought a full set of his TOP DVD's. Doing a Volcano restoration soon, but to show support bought them all.. that and who knows what project will come around next. I would gladly purchase access or a copy of his guides through legitimate and legal channels.

    #130 3 years ago
    Quoted from rbissett:

    I just bought a full set of his TOP DVD's. Doing a Volcano restoration soon, but to show support bought them all.. that and who knows what project will come around next. I would gladly purchase access or a copy of his guides through legitimate and legal channels.

    where were you able to purchase those?

    #132 3 years ago

    http://www.pinrepair.com/top/

    From the site:

    Video Pricing.
    All the following video prices include shipping! Note all orders can take up to a week for us to process. Sometimes we're very fast, other times we're backed up. Note starting March 1, 2013, the U.S. Postal service has increased postage costs. Over the years we have absorbed all rate increases, but this last one, well, it put us over the edge. Therefore we had to increase the price of the TOP DVDs. Sorry!

    For United States orders:
    $9 each*, sent "First Class mail". Please allow 3 to 14 days for shipping.
    For Canadian orders:
    $15 u.s.d. each*. Please allow 7 to 28 days for shipping. Yea it's that slow. Unfortunately Canadian Customs is hell, they move even slower than us. It used to be cheap to ship to Canada too, but that all changed during 2013.

    For Overseas orders:
    $18 u.s.d. each*, sent air mail. Please allow 7 to 28 days for shipping. Certain parts of the world are really slow (South America), others some what faster (U.K.) Note the U.S. Postal service has dramatically increased the cost for international shipping. That's why the overseas price is so high. Sorry!

    * Paypal is available for TOP video purchases, using cfh@provide.net for the Paypal payment email address. Cost of videos via Paypal is $0.50 additional per video (Paypal charges us for their service).

    All DVD videos are NTSC format with no region code, two hours. These videos are all in fun and contain TONS of information on game restoration and repair, and the money goes to a good pinball cause. Any questions or comments, email:
    cfh@provide.net

    #133 3 years ago
    Quoted from Jimmylad:

    All very interesting regards clays guides.... So jump forward 2yrs now give or take to a new pinball hobbyist thirsty for knowledge and has anything changed regards this or should I just let sleeping dogs lie?

    Some guides are back:

    http://www.pinrepair.com/

    10
    #134 3 years ago

    Alternative info, still growing, but very open to suggestions for improvement....

    www.pinwiki.com

    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact
    http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    #135 3 years ago

    +1 for buying the TOP videos from pinrepair.com. They're chock full of excellent information, plus they're ultra entertaining. A lot of heart and hard work went into making them. I bought 2 of each many years ago just to support the website, and the author's efforts (this was before I knew anything about donations).

    #136 3 years ago

    The TOP videos are excellent. Also subscribe to Clay's Pinball Ninja. Wealth of info.
    Wally

    #137 3 years ago

    clay's a good guy. a little bit misunderstood and a little bit crazy. much like all of us. this photo proves it

    IMG_1585_(resized).JPG
    2015 VFW xmas party (clay receiving a gift from me, a tikifarm's limited edition dirty donny 'the unlucky tourist' decanter). this photo copyright phosphors LLC 2015

    #138 3 years ago

    I would have bet years ago that Clay would have repackaged and re-released his guides by now, but sadly they are still gone. I still feel like there is a vacuum in pinball repair resources. The awesomeness of the Pinball Ninja repair blog is a wonderful consolation prize, however.

    #139 3 years ago
    Quoted from j_m_:

    clay's a good guy. a little bit misunderstood and a little bit crazy. much like all of us. this photo proves it
    IMG_1585_(resized).JPG
    2015 VFW xmas party (clay receiving a gift from me, a tikifarm's limited edition dirty donny 'the unlucky tourist' decanter). this photo copyright phosphors LLC 2015

    I purchased myself the same gift

    #140 3 years ago
    Quoted from alveolus:

    I would have bet years ago that Clay would have repackaged and re-released his guides by now, but sadly they are still gone. I still feel like there is a vacuum in pinball repair resources. The awesomeness of the Pinball Ninja repair blog is a wonderful consolation prize, however.

    Here's what is available and updated:

    Gottlieb System 1: http://www.pinrepair.com/sys1/index.htm

    Gottlieb System 3: http://www.pinrepair.com/sys3/index.htm

    Bally 6803 system: http://www.pinrepair.com/6803/index.htm

    Gameplan: http://www.pinrepair.com/gp/index.htm

    Electro-mechanical games: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm

    #141 3 years ago

    Lots of people saved them once they got pulled from the website using something like webarchive. I'm sure someone can send you a copy.

    #142 3 years ago
    Quoted from BoJo:

    Lots of people saved them once they got pulled from the website using something like webarchive. I'm sure someone can send you a copy.

    I would be very interested,if someone were willing to send a copy.
    Mike

    #143 3 years ago

    I been looking and asking for years just never on a forum hopefully someone will. Hands down the best repair guides ever put together.

    #144 3 years ago

    Being a newb, I could use them too. You should see me trying to trouble shoot!

    #145 3 years ago

    I strongly encourage anyone here to donate to Clay and jump on pinballninja.com. His videos he posts there are the difference between learning troubleshooting the right way and wasting a lot of time.

    #146 3 years ago
    Quoted from wallybgood:

    The TOP videos are excellent. Also subscribe to Clay's Pinball Ninja. Wealth of info.
    Wally

    definitely do both! Pinball Ninja is fantastic. Clays Videos are worth every 0.01 and more.

    -1
    #147 3 years ago

    I bought a lot of the TOP videos. But norms constant interruptions trying to be funny is vary annoying . Tbe ninja site is good but The repair guides were much more diverse .and if they showed up in my pm box I wouldn't complain. : )

    11
    #148 3 years ago

    Those of you pining for the guides, drop me a PM. Let me know what you're unable to find in the PinWiki. I'll be happy to focus on adding content to particular sections. Right now, I add to areas where I'm currently making repairs.

    Thanks for the help.
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
    http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

    #149 3 years ago

    I do agree Chris has done a fantastic job with pinwiki. I just would love to have both resources. And yes im on pinnija as well and have all of Clays dvds.

    #150 3 years ago

    still out there on torrents, got them couple days ago

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    $ 229.99
    Lighting - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 12.50
    $ 25.00
    Playfield - Decals
    Flashinstinct
    $ 40.99
    Lighting - Interactive
    Lee's Parts
    $ 23.00
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    The MOD Couple
    $ 24.50
    $ 99.99
    Lighting - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 42.99
    Lighting - Interactive
    Lee's Parts
    From: $ 99.99
    Cabinet - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 175.00
    Lighting - Interactive
    Professor Pinball
    $ 219.99
    € 45.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    YOYOKOPTER MODS
    € 9.95
    Playfield - Other
    Multigame
    From: $ 11.95
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    ULEKstore
    $ 229.99
    Lighting - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    From: $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 10.50
    Playfield - Protection
    The MOD Couple
    From: $ 19.99
    $ 5,799.00
    Pinball Machine
    Gulf Coast Pinball, LLC
    $ 3.00
    Playfield - Decals
    Doc's Pinball Shop
    From: $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    From: $ 9.99
    There are 176 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 4.

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside