https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-needs-innovation-ill-probably-get-flamed-for-this

What about the spike system? Pretty awesome that all those boards in the older games have been condensed down to one tiny little guy. Also the advances in the shear complexity of games' code is pretty remarkable if you ask me. See ACDC.

I wonder as well

RGB LED's are a nice innovation. GI or insets that change color depending on mode.

That's twentieth century thinking. Nowadays the way to get people's money is to produce half-coded games, make three different models of each game, and jack up prices for no apparent reason.

I gotta disagree here. What is going to get new/casual players interested is pinball being literally everywhere. If when they go out to the bars there are pinball machines at every bar they go to, lit up all nice and bright, they are going to be more likely to play.

An innovative mechanism in the game is not going to catch someone's eye from across the room.

The biggest innovation is the LCD backbox in WOZ. To a casual player it makes all other games seem old. RGB inserts are also really cool. Of all the recent games only WOZ seems like a step forward in design. Dont get me wrong I love ACDC and MET but if you didnt know when they were built either of those games could be from 1995 whereas WOZ looks at least to be built in this century.

I think your comment on ACDC and MET is a stretch, but totally agree on WOZ.

I remember when I saw a MET on location when I just started to get back into pinball a couple years ago. It was in a lineup next to funhouse and I think WCS. I had never seen a game lit up by LEDs. I told my wife, "wow, this must be what all the new pinball machines look like. " then we proceeded to play MET all night and ignore the other two. FH is my favorite game of all time too, and I don't care for MET the band at all.

Although I agree that WoZ is the most dramatic looking with the lcd in the backbox, I think rgb insert lights is the most profound change to new players. A tv screen might draw someone in from across the room to play, but the colour changing lights really help new players interact with the game. Sure a flashing light to shoot at has always been there, but knowing what shots are needed for the current modes is a big help.

I love TSPP and LOTR but I think they both need colour changing lights. There's hoping for VE of both.

There are big reasons why you haven't seen much innovation in the pinball industry for decades.

Relative to the manufacturer: Innovating is expensive, time-consuming, and risky, and there's no reason to innovate if you're growing your revenue and customer base building traditional machines with no new features. So you'll most likely only see true innovation from a brave startup company.

Relative to the customer: People say they want innovation, but they don't vote with their wallets. On the whole, they continue to buy traditional products and don't force the manufacturers to change. When an innovative idea comes along, they're hesitant to try it because it's unique/different and not what they're used to; so it takes time for true innovations to be accepted.

The current resurgence is largely due to the community getting involved in custom pinball development (due to innovative products that help anybody create pinball machines. ie. 3D Printers, P-ROC control systems, CNC-kits, etc), but only gameplay innovations and better value propositions will sustain the resurgence and truly help pinball achieve sustained growth. That's why I founded Multimorphic, and innovation is part of our mission statement. We're developing a machine to provide new and exciting gameplay features and a significantly improved value proposition to pinball machine owners and operators. In other words: fun new features, ever-growing game library (yes -- physical game kits, in manageable form), and MUCH lower cost per game than everybody else in the industry.

Here's a post with a list of the innovations we've discussed publicly. In 2016 when we start shipping machines and when we and others are selling add-on game kits, you'll see this list grow significantly.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/p3-features#post-1528702

If you truly want to see innovation come to this industry, you can walk the walk by supporting our efforts.

- Gerry
http://www.multimorphic.com

Yep, P3 is the ONLY new thing in pinball.

A different score display or a different type of lighting is just different, not true innovation.

Yeah P3 looks pretty sweet. Hopefully they succeed. Options are always good.

Yea the p3 is truly innovative. Very excited to get one. And Gerry is right about a the back lash when making changes. For example, the P3 doesn't need a big backbox as there is no scoring or boards in there. But when it was introduced without one all the old timers that have been around for so long cried and now the game has a huge unnecessary backbox.

Innovation? Got out for a couple years and came back. Now we have nvram, silicone rubber, Color DMDs, and led ocd/gi. Aside from the nvram I see these things when I play pinball on location. Ops are making use of these things.

Unnecessary, yes, but we've made use of it. I think the bottom of the cabinet is a terrible location for a case full of computer boards (for lots of reasons). Since we now have a backbox, that's where the main board goes. All of the modular switch and driver boards are of course under the playfield, next to the features they control.

- Gerry
http://www.multimorphic.com

No idea where to post this but just wanted to ask if a rounded vertical wire form that loops the ball similar to the 18 second mark in this 33 second video has been used in many or any past pins?

Seems it might be an entertaining tactical delay to shoot for such as when faced with an overwhelming multi-ball mode if things were getting too fast on the playfield.

Black Hole.

People say they want innovation, but used pin prices say otherwise. RFM: most innovative pin ever made, sells for $2700. The Shadow: brilliant layout and 3 very unique mechanisms (player-controlled diverters, "battlefield", sanctum magnet), sells for $3000. The list of innovative pins with huge BOMs and low prices goes on and on: BSD, CSI, Dirty Harry, JM...

We have voted with our wallets, and we have told Stern not to innovate TOO much. And I actually think that's fine. Metallica is a great example of a killer game that recycles tried and true features: captive ball, inline drops, magnets,etc.

Anything without an Italian bottom scares the crap out of pinheads, so I don't think they're really looking for innovation.

Yes! Bring back the third flipper, anywhere besides up high on the side. Give it its own button too, maybe

Personally, I don't need any huge innovations in my pinball machines. With fantastic, deep, unique code like we've seen from AC/DC, Metallica, Walking Dead, etc., new Stern machines continue to feel exciting to me. As a home collector, nothing is more important to me than deep code that will keep me coming back to play time and again. Incremental changes like bringing back the wide-body or experimenting with new flipper locations is cool. I'm sure if some crafty, ingenious new gameplay element was introduced that could be great. GOT's upper playfield is the most significant on a Stern game in a number of years and I'm excited to try it. The whitewood for Heighway's Alien looks like an unusual and exciting layout. But some huge step away from conventional pinball like Lexy Lightspeed / P3 holds essentially no interest for me (personally).

I respect your opinion. I really do. I walked in your shoes for many years.

I also believe that if future pinball development caters only to your type of needs, the market will stagnate and possibly die (new development will stop). Complex rulesets are great for pinball enthusiasts; they're death for everybody else. With the P3, we will continue building traditional-style games with deep rulesets. However because it's a platform with easy game swaps, mini-games, and alternate rule-sets, we can experiment with different things and see what works best for the rest of the world.

I'm curious why you think LL-EE / P3 is a huge step away from traditional pinball. LL-EE is a mostly traditional game, and the P3 supports completely traditional-style games (static p/f artwork, no virtual interactions, etc). So we can deliver games like you know and love, but we can also do so much more. Do you impressions come from hands-on experience or from videos?

- Gerry
http://www.multimorphic.com

I am completely the opposite. What I have come to realize is modern pinball has become more like playing a video game with hundreds of repetitious shots that you have to make over and over again but none are overly difficult to hit.

I prefer a game with less rules but shots that can be very dificult to the point that you may not hit them once in an entire game. That is what pinball at one time was all about. A game of skill.

Yep I'm 53 but I never stopped playing new ones as they came out so I still have some DMDS. I've played most every one. I already had the EMs I played when I was younger and they are now gone, but now with the internet I found I would rather get games I never even heard of back then. The collection now reflects that and there is plenty of variety so we never get bored. Some real good ones there.

No shortage of demand for EMs among young/new collectors around here. It's pretty well understood that every collection needs 1 or 2, and nice ones are getting harder to find, not easier.

1 or 2 is not enough IMO. To keep the excitement up and the patrons happy at least 10 with a good variety of features should do the trick. Nice ones of good titles are out there, but don't expect them for cheap.

I paid around $1800 for my Frontiersman but to offset the cost I put it on nickle play because I have one friend that won't stop playing it. It was nice to find change in the coinbox yesterday.

I still don't see Stern pushing any major innovation. Look at WOZ/Hobbit, and how those games have changed our tastes and expectations of mainstream designers and manufacturers. I can name a few just for Hobbit that I would have never dreamed of. A user controlled kickback? Targets in the OUTLANES? I mean come on, that's awesome!!

New?

That's as 'new' as GoT's 'new' pop bumper slot reels

Like Af-tor had in the 80s?

Really surprised anyone has not experimented more with getting more inside of the standard pin design. I know with wide body's you can create more shots and stuff but would really like to see more created in standard size games. I know sometimes the ramps go through the back like on IM or Nascar or LOTR and maybe creates more space. Maybe the shooter lane could be hidden underneath or something along those lines and we get more free space for creativity.

Like Spectrum had in the 80s?

or Like Planets/Zodiak before that?

Lots of pins with no shooter lane.

I thought that fired from between the flippers?

Having the shooter rod 3" lower would work, might be weird, but then again Starship Troopers' firing it from the outlane also works fine and no one has copied it

It holds 3 balls, all above the playfield.

You tap the right flipper to launch the ball.

No shooterlane at all.

That's planets/zodiak.