(Topic ID: 84366)

When you restore a B title to the value of an A title...


By mof

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 56 posts
  • 37 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Starbuck77
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    There have been 5 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    back seat.jpg
    neonvair.JPG
    corvair_1.jpg
    HEP Playboy.jpg
    broke.jpg

    There are 56 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 5 years ago

    I'm looking for a generic sales term that has likely been around 50+ years... The idea/principle could exist for cars, homes, etc...

    In pinball, what do you call it when someone puts major restoration work and $$$ into an economy title, such that it's now in a price-zone where it's competing with top-tier pins and NIB Sterns?

    Hypothetical example:

    A restorer buys a Firepower for $500. Buys All new parts, and does the best restoration possible on the pin. He's out $3000 in parts ($3500 total), and 200 hours of labor. His goal is now to get $5500 for it.

    Budget buyer looking at Firepower titles has a budget of $1000, and naturally passes on it.
    CQ buyer looking for amazing old school restores finds it, and considers the purchase for $5500, but he hesitates, because $5500 can get him a really nice TZ or TAF, or a NIB Stern.

    What do you call it when you pump enough addons and sweat into a lower-tier item so that it has to compete with upper tier items, that it normally would never have to, which then makes the buying decision more difficult for the buyer?

    Surely there's an expression or term for this?

    thanks!
    -mof

    #2 5 years ago

    The term is "Overbuilt for the neighborhood".

    #3 5 years ago
    Quoted from Pinmeister:

    The term is "Overbuilt for the neighborhood".

    TY!

    Do you mean to say this is a common phrase used in the housing market? How could we apply here?

    So like restoring a beater home in a dangerous neighborhood -- pointless, since nobody would want to move in there? They'd rather spend the same $$$ to live in a safer neighborhood?
    -mof

    #4 5 years ago

    Here's a great example:

    #5 5 years ago
    Quoted from mof:

    In pinball, what do you call it when someone puts major restoration work and $$$ into an economy title

    I call it "Labor of love".

    #6 5 years ago
    Quoted from mof:

    Do you mean to say you've heard this used in the housing market? How would it apply there?

    He means when you put that kind of work into a game, you need to plan on keeping it. Just like you can "upgrade" your kitchen and bathrooms too much to recoup what you have into them when you sell your house.

    #7 5 years ago

    Exactly the money is gone . The value is intrinsic. You may find another person passionate enough to pay its value but probably not.
    The key point is the money and time spent do not make of worth more. Just nicer.

    #8 5 years ago

    "Polished turd" is another generic term used.

    #9 5 years ago

    Good... So -- "Overbuilt for the neighborhood", is the already-existing phrase in the housing market?

    How can we transform this for pinball...

    thanks!
    -mof

    #10 5 years ago

    "Time/money not well spent."

    Seriously, as much as you may restore an older pin, it won't have the same FEATURES as a newer pin (or here, even a popular 90's title). Unless there's a real intrinsic collectible value, it's tough to get your money back on parts for a complete restoration, much less time.

    #11 5 years ago
    Quoted from mof:

    Good... So -- "Overbuilt for the neighborhood", is the already-existing phrase that you'd use in pinball as well?
    thanks!
    -mof

    I'd use something like upgraded out of the price range or restored out of the price range.

    #12 5 years ago

    The most expensive house in the cheapest neighborhood.

    #13 5 years ago
    Quoted from Pinmeister:

    Here's a great example:

    ...my wife is in the Real Estate business...I'm sending this to her! Thanks!

    #14 5 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    "Polished turd"

    thats the one

    #15 5 years ago

    Ok, so if we start with: "Overbuilt for the neighborhood"

    Wait, wait -- you mean there isn't a commonly used phrase in the pinball community for this yet?

    If not,

    How about:

    Over-X'd for the Y...

    Where X is a verb, and Y is a noun... (to keep the feel of the phrase we already know from the home market)

    Over-(Restored/Upgraded) "for the" (Tier/Class/Group/Era)?

    Let me try that on...

    "Mr. high-end restorer, I'd love to give you $5500 for your immaculately-restored Firepower, but this Firepower is over-restored for the tier -- I'd rather get a nice TZ for that money."

    Hmmm, not bad -- I'm not sure that "tier" communicates the noun phrase completely.

    Something like that?
    -mof

    #16 5 years ago

    You can take the machine out of the sh!t, but you can't take the sh!t out of the machine.

    +1 on this

    #17 5 years ago

    Both of my answers came from thinking about all the work I'm doing to Twister right now.

    #18 5 years ago

    how about....
    completely restored
    cherry
    excellent example
    as good as new
    high end

    #19 5 years ago

    How about...

    "over-restored for the tier"

    -mof

    #20 5 years ago

    How about a waste of good hard earned cash.

    #21 5 years ago
    Quoted from mof:

    I'm looking for a generic sales term that has likely been around 50+ years... The idea/principle could exist for cars, homes, etc...
    In pinball, what do you call it when someone puts major restoration work and $$$ into an economy title, such that it's now in a price-zone where it's competing with top-tier pins and NIB Sterns?
    Hypothetical example:
    A restorer buys a Firepower for $500. Buys All new parts, and does the best restoration possible on the pin. He's out $3000 in parts ($3500 total), and 200 hours of labor. His goal is now to get $5500 for it.
    Budget buyer looking at Firepower titles has a budget of $1000, and naturally passes on it.
    CQ buyer looking for amazing old school restores finds it, and considers the purchase for $5500, but he hesitates, because $5500 can get him a really nice TZ or TAF, or a NIB Stern.
    What do you call it when you pump enough addons and sweat into a lower-tier item so that it has to compete with upper tier items, that it normally would never have to, which then makes the buying decision more difficult for the buyer?
    Surely there's an expression or term for this?
    thanks!
    -mof

    its called what most people here seem to do. putting in X dollars does not mean you get X or X+ back.

    #22 5 years ago

    In the classic car world we say "You can't put lipstick on a pig", but Firepower is no pig!

    #23 5 years ago

    I don't think you can over-restore a pin, but you won't always get all of your investment back, much less a profit. Regardless of what you put into it, each title has an approximate ceiling of what someone will pay you for it. Mind that ceiling if you prefer not to be upside-down at the end.

    #24 5 years ago
    Quoted from shock_me:

    In the classic car world we say "You can't put lipstick on a pig", but Firepower is no pig!

    Exactly, don't get hung up on the title... choose any favorite 80's title that cleans up into something great:

    Firepower, Black Knight, High Speed, Taxi etc...

    -mof

    #25 5 years ago

    Normally this would be done because a person had a connection to the game beyond it's market value. From here on out I will say, "He loves his Firepower upside down".

    #26 5 years ago

    I'd rather summarize it with a picture than a phrase....

    broke.jpg

    #27 5 years ago

    How about "overbuilt for the gameroom"

    #28 5 years ago

    OP, the word is "underwater".

    http://realestate.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=23397161

    Quoted from treborlicec:

    He means when you put that kind of work into a game, you need to plan on keeping it. Just like you can "upgrade" your kitchen and bathrooms too much to recoup what you have into them when you sell your house.

    I know this isn't the answer to the OPs question, but this is a very wise statement. When you put in more that a game is considered to be "worth" by the target community (high end collectors in this case), you need to be willing to keep said game.

    I am underwater on my Mata Hari. But I don't care. I know I'll never get the money back out of it, but I'm not planning on ever selling it, so there ya go.

    #29 5 years ago
    Quoted from mof:

    I'm looking for a generic sales term that has likely been around 50+ years... The idea/principle could exist for cars, homes, etc...
    In pinball, what do you call it when someone puts major restoration work and $$$ into an economy title, such that it's now in a price-zone where it's competing with top-tier pins and NIB Sterns?
    Hypothetical example:
    A restorer buys a Firepower for $500. Buys All new parts, and does the best restoration possible on the pin. He's out $3000 in parts ($3500 total), and 200 hours of labor. His goal is now to get $5500 for it.
    Budget buyer looking at Firepower titles has a budget of $1000, and naturally passes on it.
    CQ buyer looking for amazing old school restores finds it, and considers the purchase for $5500, but he hesitates, because $5500 can get him a really nice TZ or TAF, or a NIB Stern.
    What do you call it when you pump enough addons and sweat into a lower-tier item so that it has to compete with upper tier items, that it normally would never have to, which then makes the buying decision more difficult for the buyer?
    Surely there's an expression or term for this?
    thanks!
    -mof

    The term "high end restoration" seems pretty generic and has been used in the hobby to describe what you are talking about. Am I missing something as I thought this was a pretty standard term that most everyone on this board would be familiar with.

    #30 5 years ago

    If you keep the game for awhile you can consider the overage of cash rent if given a chance I would prob rent tons of titles that way it doesn't feel like your really losing any thing call it waste but it is what it is. You never lose when you really enjoy these games.

    #31 5 years ago

    Theres a buyer for most high end restores. It just may take longer to sell. I hqve high end restores of Whirlwind, High Speed, and Bride of Pinbot. Would i get the money out of tehm that i would for the same condition afm or mb? No, but i enjoy those titles and it was worth it to me. I have met a few pinheads who have offered to buy those games over the years. Id buy a restored medusa or stargazer right now if someone has one. I also plan on doing my earthshaker.

    #33 5 years ago

    I call it FUN

    #34 5 years ago

    Did it with both ft and Creech but don't regret it. Labor of love seems more accurate to me. I restored them for me and not others . They'll be the last to leave if any do. Creech is hopeless but ft I picked up cheep enough I might break even. Might. Anyway, I have two games that are completely unique and beautiful.

    #35 5 years ago
    Quoted from Pinmeister:

    "Overbuilt for the neighborhood".

    In my neighborhood they are calling it "Mansionization".

    Apparently the foreigners that can't afford a house in the rich neighborhoods are doing the next best thing in their minds. Buying a smaller house, and eliminating all outdoor space by adding on, or just knocking them down and building a mansion. They do look pretty ridiculous next to the traditional homes.

    But someday when my house is the only one left, they will think mine looks pretty ridiculous too.

    10
    #36 5 years ago

    I'd say upside down is the best term. I know that I'll never get my money back on my HEP Playboy restore but I don't care. I had the game restored so that I could travel back to 1978 for a few minutes and enjoy one of the games I used to play back then, just like it used to look (actually a little better, thanks Chris). I'll be my son's problem to try and find a buyer after I'm gone (unless Hugh Hefner's still around).

    HEP Playboy.jpg
    11
    #37 5 years ago

    When you put that kind of money into a B pin, it's called a "Keeper"

    #38 5 years ago

    A full restoration takes far to many hours to do it for the money

    #39 5 years ago

    ... it becomes a $B$ title.

    #40 5 years ago

    How about "Wish I was closer! GLWS!"

    #41 5 years ago
    Quoted from GSones:

    I'd say upside down is the best term. I know that I'll never get my money back on my HEP Playboy restore but I don't care. I had the game restored so that I could travel back to 1978 for a few minutes and enjoy one of the games I used to play back then, just like it used to look (actually a little better, thanks Chris). I'll be my son's problem to try and find a buyer after I'm gone (unless Hugh Hefner's still around).

    HEP Playboy.jpg 221 KB

    I think people think to stop being so hung up on all this... just take how much money you lose on this whole hobby (buying the machine, all the tools, all the restoration, etc. etc,), add to that the profits you make selling machines (if any), and then divide all this by the time you spend on it.
    My guess is it's waaaaay cheaper than any other hobbies the average man spends their money on.

    #42 5 years ago
    Quoted from PhilGreg:

    I think people think to stop being so hung up on all this... just take how much money you lose on this whole hobby (buying the machine, all the tools, all the restoration, etc. etc,), add to that the profits you make selling machines (if any), and then divide all this by the time you spend on it.
    My guess is it's waaaaay cheaper than any other hobbies the average man spends their money on.

    Bingo. I've been flying RC heli's and planes for years (hobby grade, not cheap toy store stuff). I've got two helis with so much in them I could literally afford to buy two mid 90's DMD pins with the money I've spent on them alone.

    Hobbies ain't cheap. If you're out to make money, you're going to be disappointed in the long run. The only caveat would be some barn/garage find.

    Also, consider the fact that alot of restoration is for things that people will pay for and you probably don't lose as much as you would think.

    #43 5 years ago
    Quoted from spfxted:

    When you put that kind of money into a B pin, it's called a "Keeper"

    Bingo.

    #44 5 years ago
    Quoted from derek533:

    Bingo. I've been flying RC heli's and planes for years (hobby grade, not cheap toy store stuff). I've got two helis with so much in them I could literally afford to buy two mid 90's DMD pins with the money I've spent on them alone.

    I'm in the same position but I'd have to start mine with "I've been crashing RC planes..."

    #45 5 years ago

    Upside down is not the right term. It means to still owe more money on something than it is worth in total. Some people walk away from houses (despite the hit to their credit rating) because of this. A lot of people buy gap insurance when in this situation, so they don't still owe money on a car they don't even have if it is stolen or totalled in an accident (lenders may insist on the buyer carrying gap insurance). This situation doesn't really apply to pinball.

    Pinball people hate car analogies, but minting out a lesser game is like restoring an undesireable car. You do so because you love it (the pin or the car) and you want it in mint condition. In both cases it does not make financial sense, because it will never be worth the amount of money you have into it. I like Ted's suggestion that it should be called a "keeper" because it will never make financial sense for you to sell it at a loss. Then whenever you die your inheritors will sell it for whatever they can get, because they won't have the appreciation of it that you did.

    #46 5 years ago
    Quoted from littlecammi:

    Pinball people hate car analogies, but minting out a lesser game is like restoring an undesireable car. You do so because you love it (the pin or the car) and you want it in mint condition. In both cases it does not make financial sense, because it will never be worth the amount of money you have into it. I like Ted's suggestion that it should be called a "keeper" because it will never make financial sense for you to sell it at a loss. Then whenever you die your inheritors will sell it for whatever they can get, because they won't have the appreciation of it that you did.

    Yep...Case point for me. I've collected all kinds of cars over the years, but had a special feeling for the Corvairs. Definitely in the minority at the car shows, but an aircooled convertible that comfortably seats 4 adults and gets 25mpg?
    Paid $2500 for a '63 Spyder Turbo, spent $7000 fixing it up, including Kandy paint, neon and stereo. Certainly not back to factory, but got more thumbs up than many of the other oldies and won lots of car shows. When I got out of it, I sold it for $5K over 8 years later...a bargain to the buyer and I had a blast with it for all those years. No regrets. I've seen people pay $2500 just for wheels.

    corvair_1.jpg neonvair.JPG back seat.jpg
    #47 5 years ago

    A car is not a good analogy here. Now a woman on the other hand is. You can pump all the money and love into her you want, but don't ever count on getting any of it back.

    #48 5 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    A car is not a good analogy here. Now a woman on the other hand is. You can pump all the money and love into her you want, but don't ever count on getting any of it back.

    You are picking up the wrong women.

    #49 5 years ago

    I fell in love with Bally Atlantis I have every intention of restoring one to better than new . I acquired two core pins ,an NOS playfield,NOS ramp NOS translite NOS sub ,Artwork.
    Before I even touch this game I'm past the value....WHO CARES..! its a Passion /Hobby If I plan to sell it later and profit I'm a fool x 2

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    From: $ 5,599.00
    Pinball Machine
    Great American Pinball
    $ 48.00
    Cabinet - Other
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    From: $ 64.00
    $ 65.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    G-Money Mods
    $ 79.95
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    pinballmod
    $ 999.00
    Flipper Parts
    Mircoplayfields
    $ 89.99
    $ 10.50
    Playfield - Protection
    The MOD Couple
    From: $ 24.00
    $ 219.99
    Lighting - Led
    PinballBulbs
    $ 1,099.00
    Flipper Parts
    Mircoplayfields
    $ 275.00
    $ 99.00
    Gameroom - Decorations
    Pinball Sales
    $ 175.00
    Lighting - Interactive
    Professor Pinball
    $ 28.25
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    The MOD Couple
    From: $ 45.00
    Displays
    PinballSolutions.eu
    $ 208.87
    $ 369.00
    Cabinet - Decals
    Mircoplayfields
    $ 25.00
    Playfield - Protection
    Pinball Mod Co.
    $ 150.00
    Lighting - Interactive
    Professor Pinball
    $ 49.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    £ 45.00
    Lighting - Other
    PinballToys
    $ 15.00
    Playfield - Decals
    Metal-Mods
    $ 109.99
    There are 56 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside