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(Topic ID: 82891)

When will we see WOZ in a PAPA circuit event?


By solarvalue

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 81 posts
  • 41 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by ifpapinball
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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There are 81 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 6 years ago
Quoted from Snailman:

Keep in mind that it's in A bank for qualifying, and thus -- based on the two PAPA's I've been to -- will not be in the A finals.

This is correct. The banks will be switched for finals.

#52 6 years ago
Quoted from ninjadoug:

This is correct. The banks will be switched for finals.

Will it still be videotaped?

#53 6 years ago

We used WOZ in our tourney today. We had ours set on the hardest software settings, with extra balls and ball save turned off, but the ball times still tended to be too long. Contributing to the long ball times: lots of time spent on the castle playfield, the wait for the throne room kickout, and the "slow death" of TNPLH. Tilt was already pretty sensitive, and it was adjusted to be even more so after the first long round on the game (too much, IMO).

We also put the game into competition mode to take away some of the random awards.

How have you guys hardened the game for tournament play? Outlane posts at the widest position, or removed entirely? Remove the center post? What playfield angle?

Some thoughts I had: Could TOTO and TNPLH be disabled completely in competition mode? These two things certainly contribute to a game taking longer when being used in a tournament. Are there any other settings we should be looking at from a software standpoint for tournament play? (I don't actually own the game, but I try to help out the operator in getting the games tournament-ready wherever possible).

#54 6 years ago

There are tons of TNPLH options. For competition, I'd put the first bit at extra easy, then lower the overall timer and also the time granted for made shots. Basically give the player ~30 secs total to get thru all 4 modes. With rainbow on extra easy it only takes a few shots to get it. 2 shots ea for the next three phases, with a tight timer it makes the whole mode a hurryup.

If you want to disable them completely and software doesn't allow it, just disconnect one TNPLH and TOTO switch.

#55 6 years ago

IMHO, I hope Mark, Doug, and crew don't disable Toto and TNPLH -- they are part of the game. But I do like the idea of reducing the duration of the timer on TNPLH. If settings allow, keep it short, but still grant a few more seconds on each stage's successful completion.

Do settings also allow for a timer on the castle mini PF?

And the obvious...
Remove center post.
Set outlanes at widest.
Tight tilt.
Make everyone play the entire game on No Hold Flippers.

#56 6 years ago
Quoted from Vyzer2:

Will it still be videotaped?

Only the finals in A division are broadcast and recorded. We will also most likely broadcast some of the final hours of qualifying on Saturday night.

#57 6 years ago
Quoted from Snailman:

Keep in mind that it's in A bank for qualifying, and thus -- based on the two PAPA's I've been to -- will not be in the A finals.

It may or may not be in finals, but we'll be broadcasting some qualifying, so it will definitely get airtime on PAPAtv.

#58 6 years ago
Quoted from mhs:

It may or may not be in finals, but we'll be broadcasting some qualifying, so it will definitely get airtime on PAPAtv.

Hooray!

2 weeks later
#59 6 years ago

So, how is it set up? I'm seeing pretty low scores for the most part, so it must be pretty brutal.

#60 6 years ago
Quoted from neurokinetik:

So, how is it set up? I'm seeing pretty low scores for the most part, so it must be pretty brutal.

Keith reported that TOTO was turned off and TNPLH was set to the 4th hardest level so it required 2 hits to light each letter. Outlanes were all the way open and no rubber on outside post or center post. Other than that he said it seemed factory.

The lack of familiarity with the game probably has guys avoiding it. Every point counts and having one dogged game can ruin an entry ticket.

#61 6 years ago
Quoted from TaylorVA:

Keith reported that TOTO was turned off and TNPLH was set to the 4th hardest level so it required 2 hits to light each letter. Outlanes were all the way open and no rubber on outside post or center post. Other than that he said it seemed factory.
The lack of familiarity with the game probably has guys avoiding it. Every point counts and having one dogged game can ruin an entry ticket.

It's running a new version as well with only bug fixes and additional adjustments. Nothing gameplay related to allow them to make the game brutal. Also if it's setup anywhere like the games at the open house tournament it's going to take a beast of a game to get past 1.5mm. The outlanes are HUGE with the posts removed.

#62 6 years ago

Holy crap. Woz is eating people alive.

Top score like 500k

#63 6 years ago

TOTO was a highway to hell: TOTO save turned off, plus outlane post at widest setting with no rubber on it. Tight tilt. If the ball was headed that way, you could kiss it goodbye. No one shot the witch, unless unintentionally.

No ball save, and center post rubber taken off. L outlane wide, but rubber still on. TNPLH on harder than factory settings to qualify it, and for DRAINBOW progress.

Except for TOTO, I thought it played fair. The Wizard saucer kickout was inconsistent, but decent most of the time.
I had a nice score on it for my last ticket (around 600K), but had to void it, when 3/5 games were bad.

#64 6 years ago
Quoted from TaylorVA:

The lack of familiarity with the game probably has guys avoiding it. Every point counts and having one dogged game can ruin an entry ticket.

Actually with taking the top 24, it only took 2 really good games and a decent game to get qualified, so you could get in with two bad games on your card.

But familiarity had nothing to do it with why it was avoided. It was simply a huge drain monster and there was other games that were way more controllable. Hitting the witch and going into the pops was extremely risky. Plus this game had a problem where a great shot up the ramp was sometimes rewarded with a ball flying off the wire form into State Fair and drain. We also had a wizard scoop that shot SDTM occasionally. (I actually had one hit the top of the sling and go into TOTO... doh)

Skillshots were also neutered in this version of the software so you could basically only hit the witch and crystal ball from the upper flipper. So no more soft plunge, trap on lower flipper and shoot. And with the wide open out lanes, ball saves turned off, shooting a skill shot was basic suicidal.

Hopefully Mark reset the audits before the tournament, I would love to see the average ball time.

#65 6 years ago

Thanks to the PAPA team for broadcasting some footage of WOZ in the qualifying rounds.

#66 6 years ago
Quoted from Zaxxis:

Actually with taking the top 24, it only took 2 really good games and a decent game to get qualified, so you could get in with two bad games on your card.
But familiarity had nothing to do it with why it was avoided. It was simply a huge drain monster and there was other games that were way more controllable. Hitting the witch and going into the pops was extremely risky. Plus this game had a problem where a great shot up the ramp was sometimes rewarded with a ball flying off the wire form into State Fair and drain. We also had a wizard scoop that shot SDTM occasionally. (I actually had one hit the top of the sling and go into TOTO... doh)
Skillshots were also neutered in this version of the software so you could basically only hit the witch and crystal ball from the upper flipper. So no more soft plunge, trap on lower flipper and shoot. And with the wide open out lanes, ball saves turned off, shooting a skill shot was basic suicidal.
Hopefully Mark reset the audits before the tournament, I would love to see the average ball time.

Excellent points, Brian!
I completely forgot about the stupid ramp return -- I lost a ball on my qualifying ticket due to that frustrating "feature."

And yeah, the timer for the witch or crystal ball skill shot was incredibly short -- probably a good thing for me since I wasn't tempted by either super skill shot. Lol. Plunging for lane skill shot was the way to go.

On a mostly unrelated topic, on yours and Karl's software (which is awesome!), on the Finals pages, it would be really nice to have a current match point total immediately to the right of each player's name before you scroll right to see each game's result. Just a suggestion.

#67 6 years ago
Quoted from Zaxxis:

Actually with taking the top 24, it only took 2 really good games and a decent game to get qualified, so you could get in with two bad games on your card.
But familiarity had nothing to do it with why it was avoided. It was simply a huge drain monster and there was other games that were way more controllable. Hitting the witch and going into the pops was extremely risky. Plus this game had a problem where a great shot up the ramp was sometimes rewarded with a ball flying off the wire form into State Fair and drain. We also had a wizard scoop that shot SDTM occasionally. (I actually had one hit the top of the sling and go into TOTO... doh)
Skillshots were also neutered in this version of the software so you could basically only hit the witch and crystal ball from the upper flipper. So no more soft plunge, trap on lower flipper and shoot. And with the wide open out lanes, ball saves turned off, shooting a skill shot was basic suicidal.
Hopefully Mark reset the audits before the tournament, I would love to see the average ball time.

Thanks for taking the time to write this. The competitive players mind is just wired differently than mine.

#68 6 years ago

Also, everything was on virtual lock, so only one skill shot per ball vs per lock for EC and Rescue. The skill shots can add up to a lot of extra points over the course of a good game.

The game was available in C finals, but some things were changed back to make the game a little easier. It was picked at least once in the early rounds.

I think the game was more playable than the fish tales, but that is my opinion.

#69 6 years ago
Quoted from TaylorVA:

Thanks for taking the time to write this. The competitive players mind is just wired differently than mine.

Don't sell yourself short.
You've got skills Taylor!

#70 6 years ago
Quoted from Newsom:

Don't sell yourself short.
You've got skills Taylor!

Thanks Chris. I just lose focus too often.

#71 6 years ago
Quoted from Skulz:

I think the game was more playable than the Fish Tales, but that is my opinion.

Yeah FT became a horror show with the semi-limp-noodle flippers and eventually non-looping autolaunches. All the shots were certainly possible (especially if you did the quick-let-go thing, nfi why that works after all these years), but boat backhands suffered greatly.

To me, ST was set up much more brutally than WOZ was, but after getting 1.3M on ST I never bothered trying it again. Obviously many people had success on it especially as people got used to the game and played it more. A similar thing happened with WOZ where the game averages generally went up significantly on Saturday as people figured out what to avoid/where to concentrate. The number of <50K scores was significant and the number of <10K scores was downright shocking.

#72 6 years ago
Quoted from Snailman:

On a mostly unrelated topic, on yours and Karl's software (which is awesome!), on the Finals pages, it would be really nice to have a current match point total immediately to the right of each player's name before you scroll right to see each game's result. Just a suggestion.

It's Karl's software, I didn't write it I just leverage it at tournaments I attend and point out any bugs when I find them.

#73 6 years ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

Yeah FT became a horror show with the semi-limp-noodle flippers and eventually non-looping autolaunches. All the shots were certainly possible (especially if you did the quick-let-go thing, nfi why that works after all these years), but boat backhands suffered greatly.

It was disappointing that FT was such a dud.

To me, ST was set up much more brutally than WOZ was, but after getting 1.3M on ST I never bothered trying it again. Obviously many people had success on it especially as people got used to the game and played it more.

While ST could be brutal, the tilt was way more forgiving than WOZ and the potential to put a score seemed easier since you could just time out modes to get to Kobayashi. (sigh)

#74 6 years ago
Quoted from Zaxxis:

It was disappointing that FT was such a dud.

While ST could be brutal, the tilt was way more forgiving than WOZ and the potential to put a score seemed easier since you could just time out modes to get to Kobayashi. (sigh)

Yeah, someone told me that was the best strategy for competition. Start mode, trap ball and wait, start another mode, repeat. They should do something with the software to prevent that 'shortcut'!

#75 6 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

Yeah, someone told me that was the best strategy for competition. Start mode, trap ball and wait, start another mode, repeat. They should do something with the software to prevent that 'shortcut'!

I guess I disagree. Each first shot in KMMB is what, 250(+50K)? And if you time out your modes they're each around 250K, correct? So your KMMB base value is just under 4M? I don't see how that gets you a decent score.

#76 6 years ago
Quoted from Snailman:

I guess I disagree. Each first shot in KMMB is what, 250(+50K)? And if you time out your modes they're each around 250K, correct? So your KMMB base value is just under 4M? I don't see how that gets you a decent score.

Unlike casual play, this type of competition is governed by risk/reward, not just going for max score. So it is generally safer here to blow off playing the riskier modes to safely get to the KM MB, than to play the modes and risk losing the ball on each one.

#77 6 years ago

StevenP: that's only true if KM is worth anything. Twelve shots to time out all your modes to get to KM is great--if KM is worthwhile.

The local arcade here has mode start on extra hard (two shots to mode start/mode) and the mode timer extremely short (10s). The typical strategy is to go for the 2nd tier modes to avoid having to shoot the damn mode start shot to get to a crappy and not valuable multiball. (KM is worth like 2M or so on average on this machine.)

#78 6 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

Unlike casual play, this type of competition is governed by risk/reward, not just going for max score. So it is generally safer here to blow off playing the riskier modes to safely get to the KM MB, than to play the modes and risk losing the ball on each one.

Quoted from Snailman:

I had a nice score on it for my last ticket (around 600K), but had to void it, when 3/5 games were bad.

Seriously? People play pinball in competitive tournaments???

As Excalabur mentioned, timing out all 6 modes to get to KMMB is low risk/low reward. Depending on how a match is shaping up -- in a very low-scoring match -- I could see it as a valid strategy. But for PAPA qualifying, getting a total of 2-4M for starting/timing out all 6 modes didn't get you much in terms of qualifying ranking points. Further, It also means you're forgoing value/opportunity on other aspects of the first triangle of modes, because in a 3-ball PAPA A-bank difficulty ST, you're likely not going to make it to the level 2 mini-wiz mode.

#79 6 years ago

I cradled out level 1 every time, and was typically around the 20-25 mil range after playing Kobiyashi.

That set a good base score for me to then start attacking the game for the multiballs and other 'stuff'. I probably wouldn't do this in a HERB style, but in PAPA style when you're talking about not wanting to tank a game, having that 20-25 mil in my back pocket worked for me pretty well as I knew I would be getting some points as part of my run.

#80 6 years ago
Quoted from ifpapinball:

I cradled out level 1 every time, and was typically around the 20-25 mil range after playing Kobiyashi.
That set a good base score for me to then start attacking the game for the multiballs and other 'stuff'. I probably wouldn't do this in a HERB style, but in PAPA style when you're talking about not wanting to tank a game, having that 20-25 mil in my back pocket worked for me pretty well as I knew I would be getting some points as part of my run.

Was the 20-25M solely from cradling level 1 and KMMB? Or due to points from Vengeance and/or Klingon, etc.

Also, I sat in line watching your ST game on your qualifying ticket, and if I recall you'd played at least Vengeance MB, prior to KMMB, instead of just cradling everything out. Maybe that wasn't part of the plan, and just taking what the game gave you.

#81 6 years ago

If I played a multiball before hand it was due to flailing around like a idiot while trying to trap the ball.

Very possible some of those times could have included one of the modes played with a multiball if it was available to me.

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