(Topic ID: 88367)

When will we see reproductions of early solid state games?


By solarvalue

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 83 posts
  • 43 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by lost8ball
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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    There are 83 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
    #51 5 years ago
    Quoted from BrianBannon:

    I think a price point between $3000-$4000 would be the sweet spot for collectors. Anything over $4000, and I think there will be too few people chasing these games to make it worthwhile

    I think you're spot on with those prices. I'd be tempted at around $3,000, but too much above that, and I'd prefer to have a NIB Stern Pro.

    #52 5 years ago
    Quoted from SunKing:

    I think you're spot on with those prices. I'd be tempted at around $3,000, but too much above that, and I'd prefer to have a NIB Stern Pro.

    I agree re: the necessity of coming in under NIB Sterns. But I think it would be extremely impressive if someone is able to make repros and turn even a marginal profit at MSRP $3,000. Probably highlights why this type of project is unlikely to go forward -- why waste your time remaking early SS games when you remake TOTAN and people would pay double (or more)?

    -1
    #53 5 years ago

    $2k is more like it. Hopefully at that price point there is a resurgence in operating pins. I'm going to try my luck in 2015. Early electronic style, cut out the toy crap!

    #54 5 years ago

    LOL Guys the Popeye thing was a joke.

    Go read the official PPS MMR thread for reference.

    #55 5 years ago

    Stern obviously makes money selling The Pin for $2500 (shipped free from Amazon), so a much less complicated Fathom for $2500 sounds doable (and much more desirable....).

    #56 5 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    Never. Some games are expensive because they're rare, not because people want to actually play them. MM is being remade because people want to play it. Not enough interest in older titles to make remakes viable. King of Diamonds sold like 10 machines...a SS title would prob sell a few more, but not enough to make business sense.

    I could sell 100 EBD's right now. Easily. Because people want to play it. There is enough interest in this game to be remade. There are certain older titles that would garner interest. If the price was $3k I could see a 5k run.

    #57 5 years ago

    5000 machines? you're out of your mind. this isn't 1986.

    #58 5 years ago
    Quoted from BrianBannon:

    but no one outside the hobby ever asks me about Fathom, they just don't care about that game.

    The masses outside the hobby don't know about Fathom.I see them asking about TAF Kiss Playboy etc..high production numbers.

    If I could get a remake that looks and plays like the original Fathom in Aus for $6.5K,i would not hesitate in buying it.

    #60 5 years ago
    Quoted from chalkup8:

    The masses outside the hobby don't know about Fathom.I see them asking about TAF Kiss Playboy etc..high production numbers.
    If I could get a remake that looks and plays like the original Fathom in Aus for $6.5K,i would not hesitate in buying it.

    Fathom was a flop commercially compared to Eight Ball Deluxe. I remember them both when they were new and EBD garnered a whole lot more plays than Fathom did. That's why so many Fathoms are still in decent shape.

    I have a Fathom now but back then couldn't have cared less about the game. As long as I had Eight Ball Deluxe I was happy back then. No other pin really mattered.

    If you could sell repop Fathoms, you could sell at least twice as many repop EBD.

    #61 5 years ago
    Quoted from Gatecrasher:

    Fathom was a flop commercially compared to Eight Ball Deluxe. I remember them both when they were new and EBD garnered a whole lot more plays than Fathom did. That's why so many Fathoms are still in decent shape.
    I have a Fathom now but back then couldn't have cared less about the game. As long as I had Eight Ball Deluxe I was happy back then. No other pin really mattered.
    If you could sell repop Fathoms, you could sell at least twice as many repop EBD.

    I agree that EBD was the more successful pin back in its day and is the better player of the two, but Fathom would be a much better choice for a reproduction based on how much more collectible it is today. I think the art package is far superior on Fathom which makes it a more desirable title in restored condition. If given the choice I think more people would rather have a restored/collector's quality Fathom paired with a player condition EBD vs. a restored EBD and a player condition Fathom. If you're reproing early Bally SS games I think Fathom is easily the top choice followed by Centaur. After that I could see games like Medusa, EBD and Xenon later down the line. With that being said, I doubt any of this would ever happen as there are about 10 DMD titles that it would make way more sense to repro first.

    #62 5 years ago
    Quoted from MikeS:

    I agree that EBD was the more successful pin back in its day and is the better player of the two, but Fathom would be a much better choice for a reproduction based on how much more collectible it is today. I think the art package is far superior on Fathom which makes it a more desirable title in restored condition. If given the choice I think more people would rather have a restored/collector's quality Fathom paired with a player condition EBD vs. a restored EBD and a player condition Fathom. If you're reproing early Bally SS games I think Fathom is easily the top choice followed by Centaur. After that I could see games like Medusa, EBD and Xenon later down the line. With that being said, I doubt any of this would ever happen as there are about 10 DMD titles that it would make way more sense to repro first.

    Just not enough overall buyers to support Fathom. These early solid state reproductions, if they ever happen, will need to be aimed at a much larger audience than Pinside to be successful. Eight Ball Deluxe was manufactured in three different iterations, two of which came at a time when nothing else was selling well. EBD has the best chance of success when including the entire marketplace--collectors, operators, general public. After EBD, maybe KISS, Centaur, and Fathom. Anything else would be a real longshot.

    Another thought would be providing these games in kit form. Cabinets, playfields, wiring harnesses, everything else and collectors can build their own.

    #63 5 years ago

    Order me up a Flash Gordon, please.

    #64 5 years ago

    I think a modern take on the classics would be cool. Say Revenge of the Seawitch! Could be simple single level playfield like the old SS games, but with newer sounds and music and, maybe just an Alphanumeric display to up it a bit. That might be pretty cool.

    Tom

    #65 5 years ago
    Quoted from cdnpinballer:

    They would remake Popeye before any SS pin.

    Revenge of Olive Oil ...

    #66 5 years ago
    Quoted from homebrood:

    I think a modern take on the classics would be cool. Say Revenge of the Seawitch! Could be simple single level playfield like the old SS games, but with newer sounds and music and, maybe just an Alphanumeric display to up it a bit. That might be pretty cool.
    Tom

    +1.

    #67 5 years ago

    I'd rather see system 11 games remade, w/ game code enhancements.

    #68 5 years ago
    Quoted from moto_cat:

    I'd rather see system 11 games remade, w/ game code enhancements.

    MMMMmmmmm....Black Knight 2000 w/ DMD, stereo "real" electric guitar version of the score with clear choir voices singing "YOU GOT THE POWER!!!!" ...If anything I'd love a kit like BOP 2.0

    #69 5 years ago
    Quoted from PopBumperPete:

    If an older Bally was re-run, I would want a perfect reproduction, proper cabinet style and the right coindoor

    I second that!

    #70 5 years ago
    Quoted from MikeS:

    I agree that EBD was the more successful pin back in its day and is the better player of the two, but Fathom would be a much better choice for a reproduction based on how much more collectible it is today. I think the art package is far superior on Fathom which makes it a more desirable title in restored condition. If given the choice I think more people would rather have a restored/collector's quality Fathom paired with a player condition EBD vs. a restored EBD and a player condition Fathom. If you're reproing early Bally SS games I think Fathom is easily the top choice followed by Centaur. After that I could see games like Medusa, EBD and Xenon later down the line. With that being said, I doubt any of this would ever happen as there are about 10 DMD titles that it would make way more sense to repro first.

    Fathom would probably make the top five on my list of early SS to be reproduced but definitely not the "top choice". There is only one machine from the era that is the hands-down obvious candidate for that.

    I would rather have an EBD any day over a Fathom in similar condition unless of course, I already had one or two EBD and wanted to add a Fathom to the collection. I have both and even today after 35 years the EBD still gets a lot more plays than Fathom does.

    When you decide to undertake a project of this magnitude, you want to select the best title to make it a success. If you manage to pull the first one off, then you can follow-up with the lesser and niche' titles that target a more narrow audience.

    If you recall, back in the 1990s Amtex selected what I consider to be the absolute best SS pin (Bally Eight Ball Deluxe) and the best EM pin (Gottlieb Royal Flush) to be their first two PC simulations. The company is long gone bankrupt now but at least they picked the two best machines. If they couldn't make it with those two, they weren't going to make it.

    I don't know the entire story behind Amtex but the simulations were excellent and still are even by today's standards.

    #71 5 years ago
    Quoted from Gatecrasher:

    Fathom would probably make the top five on my list of early SS to be reproduced but definitely not the "top choice". There is only one machine from the era that is the hands-down obvious candidate for that.
    I would rather have an EBD any day over a Fathom in similar condition unless of course, I already had one or two EBD and wanted to add a Fathom to the collection. I have both and even today after 35 years the EBD still gets a lot more plays than Fathom does.
    When you decide to undertake a project of this magnitude, you want to select the best title to make it a success. If you manage to pull the first one off, then you can follow-up with the lesser and niche' titles that target a more narrow audience.
    If you recall, back in the 1990s Amtex selected what I consider to be the absolute best SS pin (Bally Eight Ball Deluxe) and the best EM pin (Gottlieb Royal Flush) to be their first two PC simulations. The company is long gone bankrupt now but at least they picked the two best machines. If they couldn't make it with those two, they weren't going to make it.
    I don't know the entire story behind Amtex but the simulations were excellent and still are even by today's standards.

    You make some great points and may be right. Also, I agree that EBD is the better game of the two and the more important to pinball history. I just think that if collectors were faced with a decision to spend $4K on a remake that they'll choose the game that is rarer, prettier, and worth more money in today's market. If I had to compare Fathom and EBD to DMD games I'd equate EBD to Addams Family and Fathom to MM.-They don't call it Mermaidevil Madness for nothing Addams was a way more popular game in terms of units sold than MM, I also think TAF is more innovative and is simply a better game all around then MM. and it also holds a special meaning and a place in pinball history more than MM does. There was also 5X as many TAF's produced as MM just as there were 3X as many EBD and EBDLEs sold than Fathom. But yet MM is the game being remade. Of course units produced and licensing issues have something to do with it. Either way, I doubt we'll see either EBD or Fathom produced but it's fun thinking about it!

    Btw, I didn't know about the Amtex simulations but they look great for 1993! Also, what's the story with Sharkey's Shootout? I have never played one and don't know the ruleset at all, but is it Stern's attempt at modernizing EBD?

    #72 5 years ago

    At 3k I could see me buying certain titles. But not more than that. And I would prefer them built like the MMRs are with modern circuit boards and definitely get rid of those bayonet sockets. I wouldn't mind LEDs but definitely the soft/hardware needs to be there to make them work correctly. LED displays as opposed to plasma. No need for a DMD, this is an old title. Also, 90s B/W flipper mechs as opposed to new originals. I can see the purist hating that statement but if I wanted a perfect original, I would buy a perfect original.

    #73 5 years ago

    Can't tell you how much I hate those early SS Bally wedge sockets. Whenever I do a PF swap, those get replaced with new bayonet sockets.

    #74 5 years ago
    Quoted from Gatecrasher:

    If you recall, back in the 1990s Amtex selected what I consider to be the absolute best SS pin (Bally Eight Ball Deluxe) and the best EM pin (Gottlieb Royal Flush) to be their first two PC simulations. The company is long gone bankrupt now but at least they picked the two best machines. If they couldn't make it with those two, they weren't going to make it.

    You can d/l it for free today:

    http://www.myabandonware.com/game/eight-ball-deluxe-240#download

    #76 5 years ago
    Quoted from PopBumperPete:

    Cannot see it happening
    With a new stern you get ramps, DMD, music and authentic voice work
    Why pay the same amount of $$$ for a lesser game?

    All of that crap doesn't make a game batter. I would rather play Centaur/Paragon/EBD than a new Stern 90% of the time. ....and I own 2 Sterns. It is good to have variety. Now would most people pay $5000+ for these remakes? No, I don't think so. Would they pay $3000....I think a lot would for the right title. I would pay that for a new Fathom or Centaur. I don't think anybody can make any money selling them for that though.

    #77 5 years ago
    Quoted from dothedoo:

    What is DOS? j/k

    If you are Window7 or higher, you will need DOSbox:

    http://sourceforge.net/projects/dosbox/?source=dlp

    #78 5 years ago

    If you're on OS X you should be able to run it with this:

    http://boxerapp.com

    #79 5 years ago

    Maybe they should start off slow and test the waters: Produce a fully assembled and wired EBD playfield with Backglass, Roms and Side Art decals and sell conversion kits?? Kind of Like the Lost Vegas project that has yet to happen (but was game specific). Then, there is a potential for profit if its not all sucked up on paying for things like Side rails, lockdown bars and transformers. And it can be up to the end buyer as to whether to retro fit with new PCBs and displays or keep what they have from the doner game.

    At least that way, you will get your precious Bally Stainless Steel Coin door.

    Again, the biggest hurdle for EBD will be the Drop Target assemblies where metal tooling more than likely, no longer exists.

    #80 5 years ago

    It would be better to reengineer them as the sumbitches never seem to fall down when you need them to anyway

    #81 5 years ago

    A Fathom 2.0 would be fantastic! Better background sound, please! But, with this and all future 2.0 iterations, a software option to play the original code (ala BoP 2.0) is a must.

    #82 5 years ago
    Quoted from Gatecrasher:

    If you recall, back in the 1990s Amtex selected what I consider to be the absolute best SS pin (Bally Eight Ball Deluxe) and the best EM pin (Gottlieb Royal Flush) to be their first two PC simulations. The company is long gone bankrupt now but at least they picked the two best machines. If they couldn't make it with those two, they weren't going to make it.
    I don't know the entire story behind Amtex but the simulations were excellent and still are even by today's standards.

    I have both of them:

    IMAG2643.jpg

    Post edited by MrBally: prefer not to disclose

    #83 5 years ago

    Put me on a preorder list for Eight Ball Deluxe as long as it's <= $4K.

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