If it happens, I predict Eight Ball Deluxe will be the first.

Except for the Drop Target assemblies, just about everything for this game has been repro'd. And in theory, you could adapt the Stern DT hardware to the production.

It may not be the highest ticket priced game out there, but I could see a number of operators putting them back out on location if they were brand spankin' new. And plenty of collectors would also want pristine examples. They are already paying over $6K for fully restored ones.

Spirit and Krull would require too much new R&D and I don't think they really cater to the masses.

I could see something like Fathom being 2nd in line. But I don't see hundreds of people paying $5K plus for one. I could be wrong.

However, as you said, it would require "cooperation" between all the aftermarket vendors since you could not cost effectively build one if you paid retail for all the various reproduction parts. At least, not and still have something left for the effort.

The think is a game like Krull only commands that money because it's rare. It's kind of a cool game, good collector's piece, but it's really not amazing to play or anything. The lenticular lens to the lower playfield is a good gimmick, makes the ball feel way deeper in the machine than it is, but other than that what does it really offer? I have a soft spot for that film, but no one is going to line up to buy it because of that.

You remake it and who's going to pay the $5k or whatever for it? Very few people.

I would!

IMO, if there was a good reproduction of 8 Ball DeLuxe at a reasonable price, it would appeal to the smaller pubs and bowling alleys along with the home crowd.

Of course there was (is?) the repro of the Gottlieb King Of Diamonds which IMO, was a poor choice of game to produce. Don't think there was a lot of interest in that specific game and they didn't have any network to sell it. Joker Poker IMO would have done much better.

Never. Some games are expensive because they're rare, not because people want to actually play them. MM is being remade because people want to play it. Not enough interest in older titles to make remakes viable. King of Diamonds sold like 10 machines...a SS title would prob sell a few more, but not enough to make business sense.

I operated a refurbished Eight Ball Deluxe a couple of years ago. Looked new and played like it. It earned as well as any other title at that location, but dropped off just like any other title, too. I don't think operators would line up for Eight Ball Deluxe to place on location at a new Stern pro price. Just too many other competing products at that price point. Same goes for other refurbished solid state titles.

As far as the collector market, I don't think there would be enough money in it for a manufacturer to do it. They would price themselves out of reach just to make a decent profit.

I'm sure 20 other people would too. But it's hardly the 1000 of MMr.

Krull is cool, but once you've played it and gotten to the lower playfield it's not that exciting. I say that from a pretty privileged standpoint, it's a rare game and we're lucky enough to have a collector like pinsane local who is willing to share. But I just couldn't see spending big money on a remake. It's cool to see because it's rare, because it has history, not because it was that awesome.

If I was picking from Steve's rare games to see the light of day I'd much rather see Kingpin or King Kong, those are not just rare but actually very cool games in their own right, and a lot of fun.

Cannot see it happening
With a new stern you get ramps, DMD, music and authentic voice work

Why pay the same amount of $$$ for a lesser game?

Never in a million years.

I am very interested in having a perfect example of a classic early solid state machine. A brand new Fathom for 5k would be very tempting.

There are a Lot of older games I would rather play than ANY stern.

You won't see those early ss games remade, especially any game with multiple Playfields. They simply cost too much to reproduce compared to a one level pf. CPR can attest to that.

Never gonna happen. Ever. Period.

Never going to happen. If you want a new Fathom, gather the parts and have one of the top restoration services do their magic.

They would remake popeye before any SS pin.

There aren't enough buyers for any particular title, so the manufacturer could not sell enough to break even.

And we found that out with Breakshot, right? The masses want new technology like you said, ramps, DMD, music and speech, and lighting effects. At TPF I noticed all the new machines were being played all the time, even during the exhibitors party. The classics were not constantly busy.

That is the glory...owning that rare game that will make people green with envy. Not the case if 1000 more become available.

That's right. Those will be the people who really like the game and want a perfect example of a machine they have not been able to obtain. Those wanting it for a trophy will pass.

I hope people keep reproducing parts to keep the existing classics alive forever or even build a machine from the ground up. You can build a '69 Camaro out of a catalog anymore, why not a pin?

never say never ...

Why does everyone keep looking backwards

Pinball is backwards. Sell all your pins and get a PS4.

What games are in your collection? I'd guess some of them are .....*drumroll* ...OLD!?!? ...Stop looking backwards, yo!

I could see you doing something like Centaur, has a pretty big appeal, great art, simple game so the BOM is lower than some, but I'll get the salt and pepper out for my hat if you ever tried to remake Krull.

Never

If an older Bally was re-run, I would want a perfect reproduction, proper cabinet style and the right coindoor

Ok, sure. Never say never.
It won't happen in the next 20 years.
It has been said before on Pinside. There are simply too many popular DMD titles to copy before anyone will worry about copying early SS titles any time soon.
Follow the money.
-mof

Although I love Fathom, Medusa, Centaur (to name a few) I would not buy them at NIB prices. These games are worth less than 2000 euros here in pristine condition, as compared to 5000 euros for a NIB Stern pro. As I do not expect any NIB pin to be much cheaper, this does not make economical sense to me. Or one would have to wait until prices reach indecent levels here.

The only way you could convince me to consider this would be to prepare a "Centaur 2.0" or "Fathom 2.0" version, a little bit like what has been wonderfully done for BOP.

Care to expand or throw out a teaser?

You could sell Eight Ball Deluxe pins more than any other title from the era. It's also the one from the era that I have done the most with and everyone wants. I could sell them year-round if I had them.

Spirit and Krull are both turds in comparison and Fathom is no match for EBD popularity-wise either.

If you can't sell reproduction Eight Ball Deluxe pins, then there isn't a SS title from the era that you could sell.

As in reproductions of existing machines backwards. Dorks... LOL

I have a 360 and ps3 almost collecting dust. The ps3 gets used for netflix only and the occasional blueray movie.

If I have time to play video games that means I have time to work on or play my pins.

I can spend 3 hours working on pins. No heat from the old lady. Three hours gaming on the xbox? All of a sudden i'm a lazy piece o crap.

I like the fact that the people who made King Of Diamonds stayed true to the game. To many people want to pimp out games. The only change I would make to the older games is install a DMD a FH with a DMD would be fantastic.

These games are all out there now! If you like them, go get one.

We can't......you have them all.

I'm a BIG fan of early SS pins but can't imagine any manufacturer
reproducing these pins. First of all, they'd rather come up with something
new and fresh. Not sure how much of a market there would be. Some of
the 'rare/expensive' games you mentioned have only that going for them.
All too often, when compared to high production games of the same
period, they were not all that good. My $.02 anyway.

My prediction is that even the more common games early SS pins will see a big
jump in price as newbies, who are too often obsessed with the latest
offerings, discover them
Steve

that *WAS* the teaser.

Forget the term "reproduction" for a sec. We all collect old pinball machines. We all live in the past. We love classic games, and get excited when we can purchase them in nice condition. No one likes thrashed games. People put a lot of time and money into making games nicer/mint/better-than-new. If someone offers new versions of these classics, there's nothing that different about the desire to buy one of those vs. buying an original....the new one will be the best possible condition you could possibly hope for. That's why MMr is successful - $8k may seem like a lot for a new game these days, but for a mint/NIB/restored/better-than-new MM? Makes sense. Now back on topic - what price point would "make sense" for a minty early SS game? Not $8k. Prob not even $5k. There's probably not a business plan for remaking early SS games that's sustainable.

Why, nobody played it so why would they need restored.

just thinking out loud ... I suppose they'd probably be pretty simple to emulate, but I'm not sure the BOM and assembly cost would be significantly less than a MMR, which would probably mean it wouldn't be a profitable endeavor. they'd still have to fab a ton of game-specific parts.

just because something is lower tech doesn't mean it's necessarily cheaper, especially if it's obsolete. it might even be cheaper to use four LCD screens rather than genuine alphanumeric digital displays.

edit: in fact, I wonder if it'd be cheaper to program a big LCD screen to display the backbox art and scores, rather than fabricating four alphanumeric digital displays, a backglass, a translate, backbox wiring, etc. per game!

I agree. I think the BOM on many of the older SS machines would be more than newer DMD games. Here's the underside of a Flash Gordon vs. AFM just for reference.

flashgordonpf.jpg

afm.jpg

Per PinSide ratings Centaur = 62, Fathom = 67, and EBD = 73. Why would any of these titles be next in line for PPS? Don’t get me wrong I like all 3 machines, but most companies exist to make money. I don’t see these titles being a very profitable venture.

We've already had a couple of business proposals to do that ... and probably a couple of more coming ... once infrastructure costs are done, then the overall cost goes down and the ability to do more things goes up ...

Well that is certainly a step in the right direction for people wanting them.

Thanks Rick and all involved !

LTG : )™

well that is certainly cool and exciting news. put me down for a Centaur LE.

If I could get a *mint* EBD, Centaur or perhaps Paragon for around 3,000 - I'd be tempted.

Popeye is a SS pin, BTW. The difference is no one would buy it.
People would line up to pay for a brand new Centaur or Fathom depending on price point.

No back box art when the game is off boo boo

well, I said it might be cheaper. I didn't say it'd be desirable.

Well, there ya go! I think you're the only one who could pull it off, as it would all wrapped into the technology and factory infrastructure you've set up with MMr....not sure if someone 'new' could pull it off as a one-off type of project, like King of Diamonds.

I agree, Eight Ball Deluxe is probably the most popular game those players outside the hobby seem to recognize the best. There will always be KISS fans that would clamor over a new solid state KISS pinball machine, but that game doesn't have many fans outside of them. I believe Fathom would be a hit inside the hobby, but no one outside the hobby ever asks me about Fathom, they just don't care about that game.

Forget about trying to sell these games to operators. Just not a good ROI at 50 cents a play as no one will pay more than that per play for a solid state game on location. I think a price point between $3000-$4000 would be the sweet spot for collectors. Anything over $4000, and I think there will be too few people chasing these games to make it worthwhile. Not sure how you can do it, but I hope you can pull it off. It would be great to see everyone get a chance to own a NIB classic Bally at a reasonable price.