lol I think you meant to say "barometer".

I think this topic keeps popping up because the price bumps have come during a recession and pinball machines are a luxury item.

The buyers for these are still a very small market and you are seeing more companies and boutique builders going after the same niche; higher end pinball collectors. With the supply increasing will the demand keep pace?

I think people are surprised the price ceiling hasn't been reached yet.

I think it's only just begun!!!!

ebay.com link: itm

ebay.com link: RARE Cactus Canyon Development Whitewood Pinball Machine

I know that Ebay is not the Holy Grail for value, and the old repeated adage still applies, "it's only worth what someone will pay". But every time I need something, or want something be it collectable or otherwise, it always shows up on Ebay. I have been watching High Speed 1 games listed for upwards of 2-3 thousand, Taxi games even higher. And TAF, well even higher. When I bought my very decent High Speed 3 years ago, I paid 1,200.00 cash, and I thought that was high. A few weeks ago I bought a NOS system 11b MPU that I needed, a NOS plastic set, well I'd be a fool not pass it up, so I payed the price. I'm sure it's those actions on my part and others, that only help to keep the perceived value/inflation going.

I think you hit it on the head when you described pins as a luxury item. People have been investing 10's of thousands of dollars into home theaters. In the beginning it was a complete niche market. Now my 70 year old parents are proud of there over priced Bose system. Pins are getting more popular in leaps and bounds. It's still a tiny tiny market. My guess, when Joe Suburbia can't impress his pals with the 80 inch screen, his $10,000 pinball machine will.
I'm betting we're a long, long way from any bubble popping.

I would have to agree.

Some people were heavily affected by the economy situation, while many others were not, or were very well ahead of the game when it happened. I own an appliance service company in South Carolina. Most greater Charlotte area customers attitude is more about getting their appliances fixed, even if replacement boarders on similar cost.

One thing I may have missed in this thread is the impact of the "flipper". This would be the person that trolls for every pin in the area, puts $30 of rubber on it and a little novus, then lists it for $1500 more than what they paid for it. They dont give a shit about the hobby, just the profit. These are the same "get-rich-quick" types of folks that helped artificially inflate the housing market. When the bubble burst, they were the ones stuck getting forclosed on their 500k house that was worth 175k two years prior, crying for help. I wonder how much the flipper has contributed to this pin price madness.

I am not one to judge, but perhaps a reality check is in order. Not looking to draw flames, but at the end of the day us folks are paying outrageous amounts of money for....lets face it.....toys. Until we buyers take a step back and do this, I think the upward trend will continue.

While I agree that a lot of the items you mention increase that is expected with inflation, however it was only a few years ago NIB Stern games like SM/LOTR were mid 3K's. Plot all of these price increases as percentages over the past ten years and compare it to NIB pinball pricing. I think they will have very different curves.

Insert Sam Elliot's voice here (why?, because he's got a great voice for pinball ads ); Back in the late 70's some early SFBA collectors were complaining about pinball prices being too high, the average price for a nice shopped and working game was $500. Some things never change, others do.

600full-sam-elliott.jpg

Thing about ebay is that there is a significant cost in doing business. You would need to adjust that for sales off of Ebay. Plus it is the #1 place to get maximum exposure.

Carefull - plenty of those folks on pinside.

Yep. Who among us doesn't want to come out on the plus side when we move one along?

I look at it like classic cars. There are only "X" number of any given machine, some are probably destroyed/lost as time goes on. There seem to be amazing restorations intended for the collector/investor, such as Barrett-Jackson auctions, and that makes them pricier for those who simply want to play or drive. Then I think everyone in turn holds onto the games they normally might sell/trade to get another, and the law of supply/demand takes over. It would be neat to organize a network of people with players' games who could sell/trade amongst themselves, maybe at lower prices, to keep some alive and circulating. I know of one dealer who claims to sell high-end restored machines to celebrities and pro athletes who pay without caution; who can compete with that?

think the ole flipper creed was - 'buy on craigslist and sell on ebay'
I've never bought anything on ebay and always thought the prices ran on the high side,
yet the site is still running hasn't collapsed or shut down so games must be moving ?

When newbees come into a hobby like ours with an already inflated market. Then they precieve the current market is what they will have to spend to get what they want. For instance, TAF was for years a machine that could be had for around the 3 grand range. In the last year, it seems they are much more difficult to find for less then 4K. When newbees see a price like that, thats what they pay or budget towards getting one of thier own, thus the price continues to stay inflated where they are at. Until the days start coming where machines start selling at the prices they were at before this past years inflation, they will never come down because there are just too many people out there willing to pay these outragous prices. I would agree with the demand being more then the supply.

I have to agree with many other comments. With the prices going the way they are, I would much rather buy a NIB instead as well.

if someone is standing next to me waving 40 Benjis for my taf, why would i take $3000? Seriously, Why would I?

$4000 buys me a lot more replacement pin than $3000 does.

Sound logic, except NIB pins have gone up ~$2K in this time, and most reasonably desirable other used pins seem to have gone up similarly to TAF.

So like trading houses when your house price goes up and the house you are buying has gone up, you haven't really come out ahead. The only way to get ahead is to cash out and sit on your money pile, Scrooge McDuck style.

i'd pay 4k for a nice TAF.

I think another reason these things are going way up in value is the mod factor. Even though a new MM or AFM sold for 3-4k originally, think of what you'd have to pay to bring it back to that condition even if you had one given to you for free. New PF: 1200-1500, plastics, cliffy's, LEDs, mods, decals... you can spend a few grand depending on the game -and that's doing all the work yourself if you're able.
Essentially what we're seeing is that the value of these things is more in line with the cost of shopping them/upgrading them than the original cost. So long as there is a finite number of people who can shop a pin to mint condition, and we're keeping those people busy beyond what they can handle, they're not dropping their prices for any reason. A mint game now becomes way more expensive, and the routed machine with the same name also goes up in value.

This thread aged well *snort*

This is some funny stuff.

I like that this thread got bumped. Some things change and others don’t.

Prices continue to go up the complaining stays the same.

It’s all perspective. Eventually people will miss today’s prices.

But, EJS, prices are going to come back down!!!

EJS: this thread.

I didn't check how old the thread was.

Page one: "It's Mike Chestnut selling the game."

Some how I just started reading page 1. Halfway down I notices posting from 8 years. I thought Pinside has crashed again. Come here to page 4 and realize I went Back to the Future.

It met the same fate as every pricing bubble thread.

This is still true, 8 years later. Just replace 4500 with 6000. Actually - one thing that has changed is that the NIB games all have LCDs, and a lot of these older games for sale have DMDs.

Yes, and his BR was beautiful.

GOLD!

Why are you reviving and old thread about pricing when there are so many active about that same suject right now ?

Because I enjoyed reading that quote and thought others newbies may as well.

It's okay dude, I was just teasing you. So many of these threads these days, like pricing is all there is about pinball lately.

If every new pinball machine had a note to visit pinside prices would double. As a newbie seeing these old bubble threads is reassuring nothing is popping soon.

Opps I just realized your the guy I quoted. Sorry if it seemed like I was calling you out.

Pinball is red hot right now. Not enough machine to meet demand but same rule is applying to any other luxury items. It does not mean it's a safe investment.

The old ones are just more hilarious than the current ones.

The current ones will be side splitting in 5 years.

no worries friend and it's not because you are quoting me that you are calling me out. We are just having a friendly conversation.

Montreal! My wife and I are planning a trip up there in September. Anything you would definitely recommend that might not be in all the travel blogs and travel sites? We've seen most of those and a handful of youtube foodie videos. We are working on learning some basic french to help us in our travels as well, since we have a good amount of time before the trip happens. We did the same when we went to Amsterdam so we could venture out a bit more. How is the weather in Sep? Hoodie or winter jacket? Are all the rooftop pubs/bars closed up by then? We'll probably poke around the Old Port area, Mile End area, some parks/museum stuff, and spend some time on the river. Looks like it should be easy to get around with public transportation options. The botanical gardens look incredible as well.

Lot of things to do. There is a bit of everything for everyone. Of course the last 2 years have been boring because of the pandemic and all the restrictions. But even if there is another wave there is way more freedom then during winter.

September is still very hot here, like july and august. T-shirts and maybe a vest during the evenings but keep in mind 25 degrees for us is warm so it's all about what you are use to. Still a lot of tourists during september so I would not be worry about cool things to do.

Rooftop pubs and bars are very active in september. So many great restaurants.

Feel free to PM me if you need more info when the time comes.

C'est une bonne chose que tu essaies d'apprendre le français. Un langage très coloré. (Good thing you are learning some basic french, such a nice and colorful language).

Take care

I suppose I forgot the most important question, where is the best place to play pinball in Montreal?

I like to go at amusement 2020. It's in laval, 10 min from montreal. It's quiet and you can have the pins for yourself a long time. The pins are mostly in premium version and in amazing condition. There is also le carrefour laval right in front. A huge shopping center. Usually I go play a few games while my girl is at the shopping center lol.