(Topic ID: 65149)

When Will Stern Release an LCD Pinball Machine?

By Aussiepinwiz

10 years ago


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  • 336 posts
  • 107 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by Part_3
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    Topic poll

    “When Will Launch a LCD Model Pinball?”

    • In a few weeks time in a surprise move for the ST LE 9 votes
      3%
    • Sometime in 2014 79 votes
      29%
    • Sometime in 2015 59 votes
      22%
    • Sometime in 2016-2019 38 votes
      14%
    • Not anytime this decade 43 votes
      16%
    • Never. Pinball is about the playfield not the screen. 45 votes
      16%

    (273 votes by 0 Pinsiders)

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    11
    #29 10 years ago

    People saying they don't need LCD screens is the same argument some had against DMD, SS Pins, and scoring reels. Hard to believe, but scoring reels replacing lighted scoring in the backglass was very controversial in it's time. Same argument, flush, repeat. Technology moves on folks....

    #53 10 years ago

    Next summers' big movies are:

    Amazing Spider-Man 2
    X-Men: Days of Future Past
    Transformers 4
    Fast and Furious 7
    TMNT

    Too early for another Transformers or X-Men. Maybe....Maybe...Spider-Man 2, but I think it's still TOO SOON.

    TMNT hasn't been a Pin in over 20 years....

    But my guess is Fast and Furious 7. This is a mature franchise that is actually in its peak, not declining. Would bring in the younger crowds, and might be a great showcase for an LCD. I could see this as a late summer or fall release.

    #70 10 years ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    I would have guessed $10.
    Anyhow, its cheap, efficient, reliable, you don't just throw something like that out and then add a significant cost to the machine, especially in light of when they are putting things like pegs in for supports.
    Again, not defending it, but understanding the business behind it.

    On the other hand, a Rasberry Pi is $25, and can do HD video.

    Not saying Stern should use Rasberry Pi necessarily, just saying that computing power is a lot cheaper these days.....

    #75 10 years ago
    Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:

    I'm beginning to think they will never do it. At some point I'll get frustrated with the ancient tech and switch to buying from another manufacturer. Would like LCD the size of large Sega DMDs.

    That's not a bad idea.

    #112 10 years ago
    Quoted from DaveH:

    Ummm, PLUS computer to drive the LCD, PLUS all the changes in the game code to integrate that. You can take a $65 LCD and stick it in a backbox yourself, but there is a lot more that goes into it. The other manufacturer was able to leverage one because they were starting from scratch. Stern doesn't want to toss away what they do well right now. So DMD, for a long time. Most likely color DMD for a long time after that. Plus they are getting the same money as the other guy without doing it. People may get upset that it isn't there, but it doesn't make any business sense to take on that kind of expense for Stern right now. Get used to that DMD, because you will be seeing it for a long time, and the games will still sell.

    Raspberry Pi, $25 computer that can drive HD video.

    19 inch LCD much cheaper than $65 wholesale.

    DMD display....Couple hundred alone wholesale.

    #151 10 years ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    No, because you need a whole new computing system to deliver those graphics. SAM is the processor equivalent of a GameBoy Advance. It cannot deliver hi-res graphics. The display is not the bottleneck.
    .

    Hey, the GameBoy Advance seems to be capable of powering an LCD based Pinball.

    #179 10 years ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    You know, there are a lot of people who say "I just play the game, I don't need to watch a screen, I'm looking at the playfield." But $20 says if you took away their "dots" for just a System 11 style alphanumeric display they'd scream blood murder. They want the animations and eye candy, just in terms they're already familiar with.
    People tend to like what they're used to. What feels like "pinball" to them, which is often tied to an era and intangible feelings.

    +1000

    #180 10 years ago
    Quoted from Max_Badazz:

    Only if Stern kept the price the same
    I'd be all for old System 11 displays to save a grand on parts and software development

    You could save even more going back to EM.

    #186 10 years ago

    Davy Jones, 1939.

    There is absolutely no reason to advance technology past this machine.

    It has lighted scoring in the backbox.

    image-5.jpgimage-5.jpg
    #188 10 years ago
    Quoted from pintechev:

    I agree. I can't look at the dots when I play. The PF has the action, not the back box.
    The LCD seems to be an argument to attract the next player, not the one currently playing... And that may be very valuable on location, when making money is what matters, but in a home, it's a different problem altogether.
    Marc

    Why? Don't you have friends over or other people sitting around watching you play? An LCD makes things more attractive for them too.

    It's not just about on location. There is no downside to an LCD. If you're not looking at it, it's not hurting you.

    #193 10 years ago
    Quoted from pintechev:

    When people come over, they watch the ball, or the score. The animations don't seem to matter to them. This is all very personal taste, and I personally voted with my wallet when I bought ST. WOZ is beautiful, but, to me, it's all about the play field.
    To each their own.

    Maybe a bunch of die hard pin heads, but to casual friends we're all trying to pick up the hobby, and LCD goes a long way.

    Sorry, LCD's are coming. Don't be afraid of them. They won't hurt you, or affect your game.

    #201 10 years ago
    Quoted from cal50:

    Unless you happen to like some level of artwork or graphics.

    Who says it has to be JJP size?

    #204 10 years ago
    Quoted from cal50:

    .......never did.

    Ergo, LCD doesn't mean end of artwork.

    #216 10 years ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    I'm convinced if Williams stayed in the business with P2000, today we'd have P2000 and Stern still using DMD which would be popular as an alternative.

    I shudder to think what the world would have been like if P2000 had succeeded. AFM was cool as a novelty pin, but Good God, can you imagine all Williams machines being in this format? It would have to have gotten old at some point. I'm sure Stern would have done very well making traditional pins, but they would have sexed up their pins with an LCD around 2005-2006 to compete better.

    2 weeks later
    #219 10 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    It may never appear.
    Or maybe Stern will wait a few years until the patent on P2000 expires and leapfrog over JJP.

    I hope not.....P2K was a neat gimmick....but I wouldn't want all Pins to be in the format!

    #231 10 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Bally licensed the system to Stern so that they would have more operators familiar with it.
    This gave them a little extra clout against Gotlieb and Williams.

    Which Stern are we talking about with this deal? Stern Electronics from the 70's, or Data East?

    Just curious....

    #232 10 years ago
    Quoted from cichlid:

    I thought Jack said he patented the LCD backbox?
    So maybe it will be 20 years for Jack's patent to expire before Stern can copy it.

    How can you patent an LCD as a display device for a computer system? Not unique, and plenty of prior art to contend that!!!!

    #233 10 years ago
    Quoted from mechslave:

    And you're right, whatever they come up with, it'll look smaller and less impactful than JJP's LCD, most likely, and will look like they're trying to play catch-up.

    Maybe players on here would think that a smaller LCD than what JJP uses is actually preferable, so I doubt it will universally be considered inferior.

    #234 10 years ago
    Quoted from zod:

    Unless pinball and video games kinda merge what is the point of LCD? Does WOZ even have a video mode? I think it would be cool to have LCD and incorporate more video modes into pinball but other than that don't see the need.

    Many people said the same thing about DMD, and before that, SS, and scoring reels.

    Technology moves on......

    #242 10 years ago
    Quoted from mnpinball:

    Trudeau is next (Dec.?), Borg is April.

    No more new Stern's this year.

    Next year returns to the 3 per year cycle (Early, Middle, Late)

    #244 10 years ago
    Quoted from galaxian:

    Ohh Fast and the Furious designed by Ritchie would be awesome! I could imagine an updated High Speed 2.

    Exactly!

    #246 10 years ago

    You are correct. Stern had better already be planning out this transition, no simply waiting for their sales to be affected by JJP. By then it's too late.

    Supposedly, the new hardware system, or a per-cursor to it, was tested out on their "Pin" line. That gives me some hope that they are planning for the future....

    #254 10 years ago
    Quoted from mnpinball:

    Would make sense for the usual Europe coin op show in Jan.
    Dec-Jan Trudeau
    April-May Borg
    Oct Ritchie

    Yup, and the late year release lines up perfectly for a Fast and Furious pin by Ritchie.

    #256 10 years ago

    $20 says Ritchie gets to introduce the new system and LCD in one of his games. I would have guessed Star Trek, but it turns out that Stern is farther behind than that. So maybe F&F late next year.

    It's just my 2 cents.....or $20!

    #259 10 years ago
    Quoted from gearheaddropping:

    I predict a battle between the following next year at Expo:
    1. Stern's first LCD title
    2. A reveal of the Hobbit Smaug interactive toy
    3. Possible stock and shipping of MMR games

    I think we'll be seeing Smaug long before Expo. The Hobbit is supposed to ship with the third movie in December of '14, and Jack's been upfront in showing his pins off throughout the development process.

    #263 10 years ago
    Quoted from markmon:

    I can't imaging that being an enforceable patent. Patents need go be novel and not have any prior art. This exact thing has been done before. Even virtual pin cabinets could be cited as prior art.

    Exactly. JJP deserves all the credit for actually making a modern Pinball machine with an LCD, but it is in no ways patentable. Plenty of prior art. Essentially, this is a computer displaying information on an LCD screen.

    #266 10 years ago

    Essentially, both on a DMD and an LCD, you receive feedback to what is occurring on the playfield. Scoring, modes, etc..the difference between the two is the quality of the screen. That, my friends, is not something you can patent.

    #268 10 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Tell that to the cell phone people, LOL.

    They are suing over different things....look and feel....and FRAND patents.

    #269 10 years ago

    Besides, does anyone think Jack thought he would have an exclusive on an LCD? He doesn't look to have patented it, as per the earlier post. I don't see him suing Stern. He's got bigger fish to fry right now.

    Just my 2 cents.....I have no insider knowledge.

    #271 10 years ago

    Looks like Ritchie confirmed the new system boards for the next game. He was supposed to get them for Star Trek, but they weren't ready.

    He also said new displays (LCD??) are coming withing the next couple of games.

    http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/highlights-of-steve-richies-speach-in-houston

    #276 10 years ago
    Quoted from Wamprat:

    With all the other issues Stern have at present I couldn't give a toss about a lcd display.

    Others do give a "toss".

    #281 10 years ago
    Quoted from DutchTommy:

    do u guys realize how much time in extra coding that will be making an LCD goin to work in an pinballmachine and be fully synced with the game? stern have their hands full already on completing their previous games and more stuff todo.. so my vote is dont do it. and im not even going to mention the time it takes making all these footage clips.. im friends with jeanpaul which works for JJP making the footages, he does an good job on it. but no it is not an walk in the park to make them fly out in no time. its an very time consuming process, and that doesnt correspond to the will of stern to make like 3 games a year.. if they switch to LCD they are forced to go back to JJP slowwwwiness making new games on the line
    plus its an huge project which costs stern a lot of money just producing these footages.. and why should they change an winning horse guys? their business is goin up, not down..remember
    not much reason for stern to change it to LCD then right.. and we allready have JJP in the ballpark for LCD games with the hobbit and more..
    let stern be stern with the traditional DMD and that way they will crank out way more games then any competitor can do. thats my call on this, nobody watches television while playing pinball anyway.
    however i do like the LCD on WoZ, but honestly it is not an life or death situation for stern not at all..
    WoZ is an project which took them like 3years in the making and they are now finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel! that does tell an story on its own, and stern should realize that. my opinion

    Well, it's happening, so you're argument is moot.

    #285 10 years ago
    Quoted from markmon:

    It may be happening but his argument is not moot. It is likely this will result in even worse code quality and rulesets so that fancy graphics can be put onto the display. The dec cycle time will probably stay the same. If more has to be done to get the basics into the game, then the rulesets will suffer. That is not moot.

    Nothing in your argument makes it any less moot, I'm afraid.

    I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, or trying to pick a argument, but it's moot because Stern is moving to an LCD in 2014.

    #287 10 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    Might not be moot but it's not fact either.

    I have my fingers crossed......I want Stern to make a quality new board/OS/LCD Pin. JJP needs competition just as much as Stern does. We'll all be better for it.

    #291 10 years ago
    Quoted from Kurisu:

    I just don't understand the push for LCD displays in a pinball machine. I can understand operators might like it to draw in new customers, but other than that I am baffled why someone would want something that adds cost, complexity, and has nothing to do with actually playing pinball.
    I would 1000X rather have a real knocker than an LCD display.

    I've said this before and I'll say it again......that's the same argument people made about DMD's when they showed up....and scoring reels before that.

    Technology moves on.

    #293 10 years ago
    Quoted from markmon:

    Right. And dmds don't enhance enjoyment much over alpha numeric. Its the higher quality games and rules that make the Dmd games great. Not the dmds themselves.

    Correct. And this can be expanded upon with a nice LCD. I may not like the theme, but WOZ is putting the LCD to good use...not just the cut scenes...that the easy and obvious part, but how they are mapping out the modes. Great stuff, looking forward to a lot more.

    #295 10 years ago
    Quoted from islandpinball:

    i think you are referring to Research in Motion or more commonly known as RIM.
    My personal opinion for Stern would be to NOT go the LCD route, keep doing DMD, just make it a point to have near completed code on all shipped games. Kick @ss games, with close to complete code for 5-6k a piece I think the games would sell like hotcakes. That IMO is what Stern should focus on.

    RIM changed their name. They are officially called Blackberry now.

    #313 10 years ago
    Quoted from Plungemaster:

    Speak for yourself, and the next speaker below you, .
    I cant barely play non DMD anymore. Very few pins i like without it, and all of them only short stints. Not hours of playing the same pin which in DMD i can do on plenty pins.
    Its all about personal opninion. Not everybody likes pizza.....
    And i think once you go woz and the hobbit, maybe a third "lcd" pin after that.... And you might not be looking back anymore.
    Some will, but many others wont.
    Next gen! Bring it on!

    +1000

    3 weeks later
    #336 10 years ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    I still think the answer to this question is "never".

    Steve Ritchie says otherwise.

    Besides, "never" is not realistic.

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