Who says it has to be JJP size?

.......never did.

Ergo, LCD doesn't mean end of artwork.

Did anyone think of this option? Why does the LCD have to be full motion video, etc? Why can't they just continue using their old art tools and just install the LCD and pass the colored animations across?

For example:
When you saw the making of METALLICA. You saw someone (Mark?) creating effects for the tombstones in color for metallica. Maybe there were 16 colors or 256, not sure. Imagine if Stern just passed the same animations across but in color on the LCD? It would be like every new Stern game would have a color DMD.

That wouldn't require ANY changes in the way DMD effects/animations are made. Win Win, we get color, Stern gets a new boost in technology and it still looks old school.

It has been suggested in a few different threads. But I don't think it would satisfy anyone. Both camps would gripe about how it doesn't fulfill what it should do, so for Stern it would be a no win scenario.

magic 8 ball says
outlook-not-good.jpg

That is a Microsoft 8 ball.....

i don't see an lcd from stern before 2015-16.

Why should Stern install an LCD? As long as they sell out all their LEs with 30-year-old technology and everybody always says their current game is the best ever, there's no motivation to innovate.

WE are Hoping!

Stern does not want to look like they are copying, following, or reacting to JJP.

Ain't gona happen any time soon.

I'm convinced if Williams stayed in the business with P2000, today we'd have P2000 and Stern still using DMD which would be popular as an alternative.

I shudder to think what the world would have been like if P2000 had succeeded. AFM was cool as a novelty pin, but Good God, can you imagine all Williams machines being in this format? It would have to have gotten old at some point. I'm sure Stern would have done very well making traditional pins, but they would have sexed up their pins with an LCD around 2005-2006 to compete better.

It may never appear.

Or maybe Stern will wait a few years until the patent on P2000 expires and leapfrog over JJP.

I hope not.....P2K was a neat gimmick....but I wouldn't want all Pins to be in the format!

Right now Stern is

I don't think Stern has ever had a problem copying other peoples' technology. If there's anything consistent about the company, it's their penchant for doing that. The first Stern solid state games were reverse-engineered Bally systems.

Right now there's no incentive for Stern to move to LCD. They are in the perfect position to capitalize on the resurgence in the market created by other manufacturers. Only when their sales start to slump because everybody wants newer technology (and demands completed software) will they likely consider doing anything different.

It's important to remember corporations have one primary goal: create value for shareholders. If Stern can make more profit producing DMD games, that's what they can and should do. It would cost them a lot of money to design a new system and re-tool their manufacturing facility, and no guarantee their sales or profit would increase. It would be a bad business move for them to do anything other than what they're doing right now.

As it stands, there is new technology in play. The LCD and PC-based system JJP is using is definitely superior. However, it remains to be seen whether the market can sustain JJP's operation enough for his platform to become the "new pinball genre" or merely some kind of "experiment" that never took over (like P2K). JJP is probably going to have to put out at least 3-4 games on the new platform and out-sell Stern before there'd be any reason for Stern to change what they're doing.

Yep, exactly. Whatever time frame you think Stern in on for this switch, add another full year to that estimation. I'd guess at least two years away.

The main reason I feel this way is they can't even get the software finished for standard DMD machines, with the same system, same calls to update scores from switches, same basic code, etc. And they STILL can't finish a machine's code for usually a full year after release.

With a whole new display system with new artists, animations, clip art, and mergeing it all together with no crashes AND in addition to the rule design and normal coding they have to do? Don't hold your breath, guys. Especially with Stern continuing to rake it in with the new LE model and theme choices. I just don't see them motivated to go through those growing pains until it's absolutely necessary. And when they do decide, and they may have already, then you're talking at least a couple years.

Yep. They are better off spending that money on getting another solid programmer to finish unique and interesting rules for these machines, not to mention better art packages with real art, and also spending the money on top licenses, rather than putting it into R&D on a color LCD display.

And you're right, whatever they come up with, it'll look smaller and less impactful than JJP's LCD, most likely, and will look like they're trying to play catch-up.

Stern's going to keep doing what they're doing until it doesn't work anymore.

Unless pinball and video games kinda merge what is the point of LCD? Does WOZ even have a video mode? I think it would be cool to have LCD and incorporate more video modes into pinball but other than that don't see the need.

whatever Stern delivers will be inept, bug ridden and simplistic at best so I am in no rush to see my bill of materials bump up another thousand dollars

I thought Jack said he patented the LCD backbox?

So maybe it will be 20 years for Jack's patent to expire before Stern can copy it.

Bally licensed the system to Stern so that they would have more operators familiar with it.

This gave them a little extra clout against Gotlieb and Williams.

in 2014 every new Ford Taurus has one.

Well, if Jack has a Patent pending on it, then you know Stern is never going to bother with it.

What I think would be cool is a DMD-sized LCD. Scoring during normal play can be made to look like a traditional DMD, but when the animations kick in, use full color, high quality clips from whatever's being licensed. A game based on a movie would probably be the easiest to test the format, assuming the rules follow the happenings in the film well enough and the licensing allows direct clips from the film to be shown. I'm not sure what it would take to do this, but it could potentially be a good in-between from what they are doing now versus what JJP is.

Come on a full LCD I don't care about but something like a LCD that colorDMD puts out should be done. Time to move out of the 90's era lets upgrade. Maybe for those that want the old mono color DMD Look... Stern can give youa software option to make it look all blocky or just splash a score with no graphics. That way I can have my cool little graphics and other tid bits they decide to do. You have to reinvent yourselves or die in small buisnesses.

Which Stern are we talking about with this deal? Stern Electronics from the 70's, or Data East?

Just curious....

How can you patent an LCD as a display device for a computer system? Not unique, and plenty of prior art to contend that!!!!

Maybe players on here would think that a smaller LCD than what JJP uses is actually preferable, so I doubt it will universally be considered inferior.

Many people said the same thing about DMD, and before that, SS, and scoring reels.

Technology moves on......

Go to a WOZ un-boxing and then make the same claim. Seriously. The full sized map of the rules, the split info screen showing progress, multiple super-imposed notifications and full HD animations make the JJP-sized monitor the clear winner. The argument for a static artwork is just silly after playing WOZ in a home environment IMHO.

I would tend to agree. I struggle to see how this would be patented by JJP. I would expect the first patents on something like this to be held by vending machine companies (perhaps Williams ironically?) and it wouldn't be for an LCD screen in an amusement machine, it would be relating to the interaction with the display which Stern could always circumvent with creativity (haha) in the implementation.

To me it's like saying someone patented LCD TV's in bars to watch football - yeah its new tech (or was) but there's nothing novel about it.

I have to agree the LCD is awesome in WOZ and the implementation is well done, but I would rather spend $1000 (just spitballing numbers here - I'm guessing you can cut a lot of labor tho) or more dollars less and not have it or all the extra programming and animation in my HUO environment.

Once I learned what I needed to be working on, I never looked at it more than a DMD. The playfield to me always need to be the #1 communication medium, the backbox is for the spectators and for drawing in location players.

I got a chance to play WOZ for the first time a few days ago. The screen is really impressive, but you really don't get much of a chance to look at it while you're playing. As somebody else mentioned, it's really fun for the person standing next to the player. I think it makes a great addition to the whole experience. Traditionally, it's a large amount of real estate with a static image keeping score... Not very engaging. I would love to see it become a feature on Stern's machines sooner than later, but I can see that would take a TREMENDOUS amount of energy to implement. Sure, it doesn't really change gameplay, but it does enhance the experience of playing.

Trudeau is next (Dec.?), Borg is April.

My 2014 Harley has one.image.jpg

+1

Couldn't have put it any better than that.

No more new Stern's this year.

Next year returns to the 3 per year cycle (Early, Middle, Late)

Ohh Fast and the Furious designed by Ritchie would be awesome! I could imagine an updated high speed 2.

Exactly!

I remember a company called Blackberry that kept doing the same thing because it was "working for them". All they have to do is look at the lines at Expo to see that they have a serious threat in the marketplace with JJP. I understand that the LCD is not the only piece that is different with JJP, but is without question the most noticeable.

"If it aint broke, don't fix it" mentality has ruined many companies out there.

One other thought on "when". If I was going to launch an LCD, I would want as much content as I could get for it. Movie clips are probably some of the easiest things they could add. So would the "walking dead" title work for that? A lot of that would be from scratch.....maybe.

I would think we are looking at 2015 by the time Stern HAS to make this change. It is clear there is too much opportunity with the technology. But the market has the ultimate say so.

You are correct. Stern had better already be planning out this transition, no simply waiting for their sales to be affected by JJP. By then it's too late.

Supposedly, the new hardware system, or a per-cursor to it, was tested out on their "Pin" line. That gives me some hope that they are planning for the future....

Would make sense for the usual Europe coin op show in Jan.
Dec-Jan Trudeau
April-May Borg
Oct Ritchie

they have the new hardware system in testing in full size games on site at least one game has had it for at least a year.

LCD?????... I'd be happy with a multicolored DMD!

It is the perfect size.......not an inch smaller, its great!.......For the old school crowd you can throw the screen into what looks like backglass art with moving animations while in "sleep mode".......

A new day is here and can you imagine the nut busting that would occur if Stern actually put one out to any theme, especially Star Trek, Metallica, Ac/dc........! It would be a pingasm orgyfest........... Yeah, its that good, period....

Did JJP get a "utility patent"