y'know, are operators really stern's main customers anymore? i'm not being a wiseguy, i don't know the answer to that question...

anecdotal evidence (which i rarely trust unless there is a preponderance of it, and i don't have that in this case) would suggest that home consumers are really stern's main customer now...

anecdotally, it would seem there are far more "collectors" than there are "locations" these days...

i know which one would have drawn in this boy when he was 13...

that being said... "draw in" and "keep him playing" are two completely different things... it's also entirely possible he wouldn't play the game at all, he'd just stand by the side of it and wait patiently for the picture of alice eve to come up over and over again... it's not like he can play the game and stare at alice at the same time...

Next summers' big movies are:

Amazing Spider-Man 2
X-Men: Days of Future Past
Transformers 4
Fast and Furious 7
TMNT

Too early for another Transformers or X-Men. Maybe....Maybe...Spider-Man 2, but I think it's still TOO SOON.

TMNT hasn't been a Pin in over 20 years....

But my guess is Fast and Furious 7. This is a mature franchise that is actually in its peak, not declining. Would bring in the younger crowds, and might be a great showcase for an LCD. I could see this as a late summer or fall release.

The ST back panel says it all...Stern will move to LCD, I imagine after the ST backlash the next game or at the latest the one after next will have it. Despite all the hoopla ST is not selling like MET and for good reason, There is going to be a few more choices out there for us, I don't think they get it yet, I bet they think JJP and Skit-B and all the others are just here temporarily, once that notion is dispelled you will see more innovation and less cut and paste.....promise.

No, of course not, but that doesn't mean it can't be. JJP's whole thing is getting location playing going again. The home market is going to be there but they're trying to add to that.

It's all aboot whom is making/editing/adding effects to the HD images, and how much autonomy they have. It could come out as completely awesome or a total train wreck.

Yes, they still are.

How many pins can the AVERAGE person fit in their home? 2 maybe 6?

Stern would quickly be out of business if they put all their eggs in the home market.

Half of all Stern's games go overseas.

If this were the case, Stern would still offer a machine without coin mechanisms like The Pin...plain and simple. I believe that Stern's true customer is still the operator which means they need to keep up with technology to help draw someone in at a bar or arcade.

Doesn't cost much total. Not sure what a SAM board costs but the whole PC setup (less the monitor) isn't really all that much.

Agreed, but that is true for almost anything...you can screw up "dots" too!

I think it would be cool to have 2 modestly sized LCD's...one on the PF (i.e. under the glass) that displays critical game play information and one on the speaker panel for viewer entertainment.

Stern is competing against this for tolkens and quarters. Adding a redemption option on current pins was a start.

Deal-No-Deal.gif

I would guess the SAM board is 1/10th the cost of the pc that is in woz. Maybe even less. I'm not defending it, just pointing out the economics of it and why they'd be slow to drop it.

If the sam board only cost $27 dollars i'd be shocked But then again maybe I wouldn't.

alphanumeric is cool enough for me in the display dept.

Unless the game is going to include some serious video modes I don't see the point of LCD with Pinball.

Exactly my thoughts. My preference would be the use of ColorDMD's for all in-game graphics & scoring. A touch of color is nice and doesn't distract from the actual game. (plus I love the artistry of backglasses)

I would have guessed $10.

Anyhow, its cheap, efficient, reliable, you don't just throw something like that out and then add a significant cost to the machine, especially in light of when they are putting things like pegs in for supports.

Again, not defending it, but understanding the business behind it.

Because it looks different, period.

Its similar to having a row of all black cars and one red one , the focus shifts to the different looking one. WOZ in a row of conventional pins gets attention becasue it looks different. Flashing beacons / police lights and voice call outs in attract mode work the same way. Get peoples attention and then get their money.

I know of one op that had a broken ( turned off ) system 11 game on location and turned completely off it still earned $25 a week. Maybe a working LCD and a broken game would double it......

That's what they said before the DMD era!

Of course, we all remember TF It'll probably end up really great, and I'll never even remember why I wasn't excited aboot LCDs. BUT for now, I'm still a little sketchy.
Am I going to get action sequences from Avengers movie, or am I going to get karate girl ugly mouth flying across the screen 1000 times a game? You never know.

EDIT: You think some DMDs animations have aged poorly, Think if Addam's Family was an LCD and you had to watch clips from that all the time for 30 years
EDIT: Or Congo or JM/DM etc etc.

On the other hand, a Rasberry Pi is $25, and can do HD video.

Not saying Stern should use Rasberry Pi necessarily, just saying that computing power is a lot cheaper these days.....

If you've played MM with a ColorDMD you'll never want to play an MM without it. And that's not changing any of the animations, they're just in color... such a simple change, but once you watch tv in color no one wants black and white. That's the cool factor, colors.

Sure, there are next generation options like high definition animations, movie clips, etc etc.. but just changing from mono tone to color would provide many many years of coolness for dot matrix displays IMO

The reason they haven't done this yet is simply the increase in development time (cost) that high definition color animation will require. It has nothing to do with technology, just simple economics. They don't think we'll accept the additional cost that it will require to provide the feature requested.

Although an LCD could really draw in even more new players with some of the titles for the younger crowd, Angry Birds, Dragon Ball Z or whatever the kids are into.

I'm beginning to think they will never do it. At some point I'll get frustrated with the ancient tech and switch to buying from another manufacturer. Would like LCD the size of large Sega DMDs.

I am still missing the concept of how monotone dots on a DMD beats high-res color LCD. I feel like a car manufacturer arguing with a maker of horse-drawn carriages.

Am I missing out on the "art" of driving the buggy down the road? Somebody enlighten me.

... and this is not about the translite. I get that opinion. I just don't get the preference for outdated technology on the dynamic part of the backbox.

That's not a bad idea.

I'd even be happy seeing them use the color DMD just to add something for the price increases.

Stern might never change over.

You guys keep buying Metallica, AC/DC, Star Trek, X-Men, Avengers......Gary says sales are up bigtime.

One game every 4 years from JJP is not going to pressure Stern into LCD.

My GF says that last Friday, Startrek was 15 people deep, Metallica was 4 deep and wedged between them was WOZ with no one playing (it was actually up and running, though).

But Vid THIS TIME they mean it when they say NO MORE!

Is JJP planning only 1 game every four years? I did not know that. No one playing WoZ... hmmm I guess that's different then I have heard from other operators... either way I find it funny people will wait in line but not walk up to a open new machine with a full LCD with full HD movies.

Stern has brainwashed folks I guess!

I know many people who STILL don't have their fully paid WOZ yet.

What they plan and what gets done are often two very different things.

Star Trek was the Belle of the Ball Friday night.

People flock to the new and shiny (and Star Trek is VERY bright and shiny, it makes the other games around it look like mud).

I just think it's a futile effort. I'm sorry, but pinball on location is not going to make huge strides again. Arcades are gone and kids are busy with the millions of other entertainment options. And a LCD monitor is not going to impress some 15 year old who spends 4 hours a night playing video games on his 42 inch TV at home.

Now I have nothing against LCD monitors being added, I just don't think it's a big deal. My guess is some form of it will come to all machines down the road simply because it'll be cheaper than DMD. But I don't see a rush for Stern who is having no issues selling DMD machines and I'd rather see the money put under the glass.

i want the holographic backbox mod

1) Can a full backbox LCD improve pinball?
Yes. And yes, you do play the playfield, but with excellent design, you can also play the LCD backbox. For example, folks who play Super Mario Bros Pinball & Theatre of Magic enjoy the mini-games on the DMD. It's a nice new dimension to the overall game play. The LCD should not just be about ripping clips from movies. For example, (as a tron LE owner) on Tron and on Transformers the movie clips are actually pretty tough to make out. Too busy & too monochromatic. Higher value use includes: LCD mini-games, making map choices to activate playfield mini-games/modes & changes to switches, status across many mini-games that can be in parallel completion, scores & other reward attributes (mana, health, armor, energy, d&d stuff) that have direct influence on the playfield states, inventory/items collected & choice to use to influence playfield &/or mini-games, quality display (not crappy/busy movie clips) of related brand scenes, vehicles, objects, weapons, characters, etc...

2) What does it take for full backbox LCD?
It needs a GPU (graphics processing unit), a CPU & ROM/RAM to manage the GPU, storage space for large art & video assets, & power. This will be a major change to the current hardware & Stern would need to hire talent (hint hint) to change both the hardware & software to support this.

3) Support
LCD's do have pixel problems. These defects are sometimes caused from: time of manufacturing, during shipping, during maintenance/movement of LCD, general use. A protective material is needed to place in front of the LCD (not unlike the Deal or No-deal machine) to reduce intentional damage when out in the wild. Support time, staff, equipment & overall costs WILL increase. Do a search for Dell/HP/IBM support related to monitors. It is painful. Stern would need to build those costs into unit prices. If I were Stern, I'd build a true investment model and full operating model to determine the total cost of ownership of this type of product change, then make the decision. (maybe they have).

i could be wrong...
...just a guy who's been making games for 24 years

I actually would prefer the LCD in the playfield like I see from Heighway. Lot of cool possibilities and something I'd actually see while playing.

Black Sabbath

You forgot Mad Max 4:Fury Road 2014

Are you in on an LE ?

Should be a rotating beacon on the top for War Pigs multiball.

How much more of an LCD friendly theme can you get than Star Trek, man!

Yeah WoZ LE's seem to be trickling out the door. I've had mine for about a month now its a fun pin. I thought I wanted a ST:LE...but man the more I see ACDC it's hard for me not to pull the trigger on a premium. Can't have them both so I'll have to choose

Cheers

Should I pre-order now!?!?!? You're making me....PARANOID ~ ~ ~

Judge me if you want... I'd be very interested in a F&F machine... Easily one of my favorite 'brain off' franchises from films 1 to 6

JPOP hears you!

If it's not to be on Star Trek, and it looks like it's not then I don't give a $#!% if they ever release another pin with or without and LCD. Stern has missed the boat. Star Trek was the perfect title to launch a new LCD system and it appears they missed the opportunity to make the best pin ever made. Whether Stern or anyone believes it or not, pinball with the LCD is the future of pinball. The only reason I am buying the STLE is because it's Star Trek and my only hope will be if it ships with that god awful red DMD that I can change it out for a blue DMD or better yet a color DMD like I have in my STTNG. I was hoping for a Star Trek pinball machine with an LCD display before I knew about Stern's new Star Trek. Their was a post over on KLOV that was asking what should be JJP next pin after WOZ and I said a Star Trek with an LCD and someone said Stern was already planning to build one. That's when I joined Pinside to find out anything I could about this new Star Trek pinball Stern was making and I was first sad to hear it was based on the new movies but their was talk about it being Sterns first LCD pin so I was happy. When I saw the first pictures of the new ST and it had a red DMD I was sad and mad, how dare Stern build Star Trek with a DMD.
In a few weeks time in a surprise move for the ST LE
That would be nice but I wont be holding my breath.

Definatly!

LCD equals another price increase.

With the prices of LCD screens, it would seem like a no-brainer for Stern to switch over. I don't get that one, if they are looking for way to cut costs and make customers happy this is it. I've been hearing about them changing to LCD since Tron btw, I guess Gary will do it when he runs out of those 10 million DMD's he has in the stock room.

I think if WOZ does show better revenues over time, then ops will put pressure on Stern to come out with an LCD display. A big one. Or they may just increase orders for the Hobbit. Or both. Money talks, and the operators still drive the biz--that's where the volume is, even if the LE stuff adds a nice profit margin to those runs.