(Topic ID: 65149)

When Will Stern Release an LCD Pinball Machine?


By Aussiepinwiz

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 336 posts
  • 107 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Part_3
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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    Topic poll

    “When Will Launch a LCD Model Pinball?”

    • In a few weeks time in a surprise move for the ST LE 9 votes
      3%
    • Sometime in 2014 79 votes
      29%
    • Sometime in 2015 59 votes
      22%
    • Sometime in 2016-2019 38 votes
      14%
    • Not anytime this decade 43 votes
      16%
    • Never. Pinball is about the playfield not the screen. 45 votes
      16%

    (273 votes by 0 Pinsiders)

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    There are 336 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 7.
    #1 6 years ago

    It has been amazing to read the several hundred posts about the new Start Trek machine over the last 3 weeks. What a huge contrast in opinion!

    Perhaps the most anticipated machine in many years has seen overwhelming:
    1. Positive reviews from those that have played the Pro
    2. Negative comments about the LE price
    3. Expressions of disappointment from dashed expectations that the machine won't be Stern's first with a LCD.

    Let's talk Stern & LCD. My mail is that Stern won't have a LCD on a machine for some time to come.
    When do you think that will be?
    I'm guessing 2015 with Star Wars: Episode VII.

    Comments and opinions on the Poll are welcome:
    When do you think Stern will launch a LCD model?
    What theme will the machine have?

    Unknown.jpeg

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    #2 6 years ago

    I've been in the hobby for a few years now, and I can tell you with certainty that it's always the next one.

    #3 6 years ago

    Deleted all the duplicate threads. Left this one up.

    Quoted from jayhawkai:

    I've been in the hobby for a few years now, and I can tell you with certainty that it's always the next one.

    Yep; this is the answer. Everyone has been saying it would be the next game since AC/DC as I recall.

    In my realistic opinion, I think it will be sometime in 2015 unless Stern sees a sales slump and feels they need to roll it out early. Sterns sales have been trending higher over the past few years (per what they have said at the shows) so they probably figure why take the chance until they have to . . . the last chance they took (the Pin) did not go overly well for them.

    #4 6 years ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    Everyone has been saying it would be the next game since AC/DC as I recall.

    My observations of this phenomenon go all the way back to the Transformers days. Maybe Tron.

    #5 6 years ago
    Quoted from jayhawkai:

    My observations of this phenomenon go all the way back to the Transformers days. Maybe Tron.

    I believe that hitherto the lack of the LCD was not hurting Stern's sales at all. I do think the lack of the LCD dipped a little into the sales (or at least enthusiasm) of ST, especially since JJP started shipping WOZ. ST will still sale like hotcakes due to the team and theme so Stern may not even notice . . . I think they will notice on the next game (whatever that will be).

    #6 6 years ago

    LOL OP, you must have posted this on your phone and thought it wasn't uploading and kept hitting send. Duplicates are still rolling in. No worries, gives me something to do here and its a slow night.

    13
    #7 6 years ago

    I play the machine, not an LCD screen.
    (Do not care about a TV monitor on my machine)

    YMMV.

    #8 6 years ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    LOL OP, you must have posted this on your phone and thought it wasn't uploading and kept hitting send. Duplicates are still rolling in. No worries, gives me something to do here and its a slow night.

    Sorry. Actually I was trying to upload it on my computer, and I kept getting error messages like "Slow down", and "You need to post some content". Thanks for sorting it out.

    #9 6 years ago

    Once you see a vote for #1, you'll know Napabar has found this thread.

    #10 6 years ago
    Quoted from jayhawkai:

    My observations of this phenomenon go all the way back to the Transformers days. Maybe Tron.

    Transformers would have been an awesome theme for the LCD unveiling. My personal bet is either Resident Evil franchise or Fast and Furious franchise will debut the LCD. Either would be awesome.

    #11 6 years ago
    Quoted from cal50:

    I play the machine, not an LCD screen.
    (Do not care about a TV monitor on my machine)

    YMMV.

    Agreed. Isn't it amazing though that so many people posted their ST LE cancellations on Pinside simply because the first photo showed no LCD?

    #12 6 years ago
    Quoted from Aussiepinwiz:

    Agreed. Isn't it amazing though that so many people posted their ST LE cancellations on Pinside simply because the first photo showed no LCD?

    Well, a big ol' LCD screen ranks pretty high on the "bling" factor, and as we all know here on Pinside, that's the most important thing about pinball.

    #13 6 years ago
    Quoted from cal50:

    I play the machine, not an LCD screen.
    (Do not care about a TV monitor on my machine)
    YMMV.

    Yes, keep a fun playing pin with an awesome backglass... a small LCD won't hurt anything but please keep in DMD sized. Don't take away the backglass for it!

    #14 6 years ago

    Never....unless you want to pay $10,000 for a machine. They dont seem like they care about what people want, just what they think will make money.

    #15 6 years ago

    There machines cost enough already. I don't want a $500 jump in price for a display.

    #16 6 years ago
    Quoted from Chitownpinball:

    Never....unless you want to pay $10,000 for a machine. They dont seem like they care about what people want, just what they think will make money.

    That's not all true...they did put LED's in the ST PRO models....that being said, I don't believe they are in a hurry at this point for such a drastic upgrade since sales are still very good for them right now. Let's hope it comes sooner than later.

    #17 6 years ago

    2014 you can bank on it

    #18 6 years ago

    i guess someone needs to explain to me the huge fascination with a lcd in the backbox... sure, it's got a "cool" factor, but does it really have that much of a "cool factor"? how does it enhance gameplay? etc.

    it's also a potential unobtainium/rather expensive maintenance item down the road...

    or (as fatsquatch alluded to), is it really all about the "bling" with today's machines? and it doesn't need to add anything to actual gameplay, and it doesn't matter that it could turn out to be a real headache when it breaks....

    -1
    #19 6 years ago

    Don't know, don't really care.

    #20 6 years ago
    Quoted from ccotenj:

    how does it enhance gameplay? etc.

    Are you joking? Have you played WOZ? Its pretty awesome to be able to tell where you are on goals by just glancing up quickly. Its a lot easier then holding the flipper button and watching as the status report flys by quickly.

    Also, it just LOOKS cool. The animated texts, the FULL COLOR of it all, really adds to the experience. It takes it from a mostly analog machine and adds some digital goodness to the equation.

    #21 6 years ago
    Quoted from Chitownpinball:

    Are you joking? Have you played WOZ? Its pretty awesome to be able to tell where you are on goals by just glancing up quickly. Its a lot easier then holding the flipper button and watching as the status report flys by quickly.
    Also, it just LOOKS cool. The animated texts, the FULL COLOR of it all, really adds to the experience. It takes it from a mostly analog machine and adds some digital goodness to the equation.

    no, i'm not joking... thanks for the comment though...

    ok, so it LOOKS cool... gotcha...

    #22 6 years ago
    Quoted from ccotenj:

    i guess someone needs to explain to me the huge fascination with a lcd in the backbox... sure, it's got a "cool" factor, but does it really have that much of a "cool factor"? how does it enhance gameplay? etc.
    it's also a potential unobtainium/rather expensive maintenance item down the road...
    or (as fatsquatch alluded to), is it really all about the "bling" with today's machines? and it doesn't need to add anything to actual gameplay, and it doesn't matter that it could turn out to be a real headache when it breaks....

    I agree! And it is just another 'cool factor' that really doesn't fit pinball very well IMO but does get your attention. It can take a bland game and make it cool... temporarily.

    Don't get me wrong, I am fine with LCD technology in pins but not at the expense of the BG and it certainly doesn't have to be gargantuan...

    This is why Stern continues to succeed... keep it simple, keep it pinball, keep it fast and fun!

    #23 6 years ago

    People have reported that the LCD on WOZ is drawing people in like droves on location. If this is true then yes, it should be the next standard. It doesn't take away from gameplay.

    #24 6 years ago
    Quoted from Crash:

    People have reported that the LCD on WOZ is drawing people in like droves on location.

    Well of course it is, because it''s a brand new thing. Does it have legs? Only time will tell. I'm happy for it if it's getting people excited, but personally not a big deal to me. I've played WOZ a bunch and the LCD part of it never knocked my socks off.

    #25 6 years ago

    Well I think part if it is because people are so used to seeing LCD/LED displays these days. All if a sudden the game gets attention because it is "up to standard" with Guitar Hero, Fruit Ninja, etc. that you see in today's "arcades." What it's going to come down to is how well information is implemented on it and how well the attract sequences are that tell people how to start a game, flipper techniques, strategies, mode stacking, etc. Perhaps allow the flippers to cycle between these tips in attract mode.

    #26 6 years ago

    When Stern can charge $15K by Christmas...

    #27 6 years ago
    Quoted from teekee:

    I agree! And it is just another 'cool factor' that really doesn't fit pinball very well IMO but does get your attention. It can take a bland game and make it cool... temporarily.
    Don't get me wrong, I am fine with LCD technology in pins but not at the expense of the BG and it certainly doesn't have to be gargantuan...
    This is why Stern continues to succeed... keep it simple, keep it pinball, keep it fast and fun!

    On games with a deep ruleset it really helps show your status for multiple modes that are running at once. Plus, I and many others really like the high quality HD animations that an LCD can bring. With competitors using LCD tech Stern should do the same (at least a DMD sized one like you suggested) in the next year or two if they want to stay relevelant. I'm not sure how many cell phone manufactures are left making flip phones and charging iPhone prices for them.

    #28 6 years ago

    Duplicate post.

    11
    #29 6 years ago

    People saying they don't need LCD screens is the same argument some had against DMD, SS Pins, and scoring reels. Hard to believe, but scoring reels replacing lighted scoring in the backglass was very controversial in it's time. Same argument, flush, repeat. Technology moves on folks....

    #30 6 years ago

    In another thread we talked about how important the Pro is to Stern. As long as there are Pro models, there will be no LCD.

    #31 6 years ago

    I would be happy with a DMD or better yet slightly larger DMD size LCD for new Stern machines. I personally still like the back glass as well. Adding an LCD at this point should not be that difficult and would add cool capabilities in graphics. I love what the guys at colorDMD have done, give me a lcd I can add color to my favorite Williams machines is fantastic. I hope Stern does something here in the near future.

    #32 6 years ago
    Quoted from Captive_Ball:

    That's not all true...they did put LED's in the ST PRO models....that being said, I don't believe they are in a hurry at this point for such a drastic upgrade since sales are still very good for them right now. Let's hope it comes sooner than later.

    They wanted it for Star Trek and couldn't make it happen. Evident by the new head design. It won't be in Borg's next game, but will be with Trudeau's first game which is after Borg's.

    #33 6 years ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    In another thread we talked about how important the Pro is to Stern. As long as there are Pro models, there will be no LCD.

    Even if they used a DMD sized LCD wouldn't the cost of the LCD be pretty close to a DMD? The other day I saw Dell selling 23" 1080p LCD's for $100. I wonder if the bigger cost for Stern to make the switch is developing a new platform to support an LCD. With an LCD displaying HD video and animations Stern would need to use a PC to run the system and develop other hardware around it.

    #34 6 years ago

    I've played 2 different LCD backbox games and neither is more fun than the 40 other games I have at home.

    #35 6 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Even if they used a DMD sized LCD wouldn't the cost of the LCD be pretty close to a DMD? The other day I saw Dell selling 23" 1080p LCD's for $100. I wonder if the bigger cost for Stern to make the switch is developing a new platform to support an LCD. With an LCD displaying HD video and animations Stern would need to use a PC to run the system and develop other hardware around it.

    Or the pro will cost X amount than it does today ... they aren't going to go with two displays ... when the LE's have LCD so will the pros

    #36 6 years ago
    Quoted from LesManley:

    They wanted it for Star Trek and couldn't make it happen. Evident by the new head design. It won't be in Borg's next game, but will be with Trudeau's first game which is after Borg's.

    You have this on video or any official Stern postings? First I have heard this.

    #37 6 years ago

    For me, as a home buyer and not an operator, I don't really care about LCD unless its cheaper and/or more reliable. Granted I havent played WoZ yet, but while playing any machine I VERY rarely look up at the DMD especially on machines I know. I can't imagine looking up at the LCD on WoZ and having to process so much info at a glance. For a trapped ball, it's irrelevant how much info is shown because I can flip thru it. The only upgrade is to the animations - but you know what... for some reason I really like good DMD animations despite their grainyness.... like the Tron Light Cycle multiball intro is one of my faves and if it were the full color movie clip I don't think it would be as 'oh cool', its just another clip.

    Maybe I'm wrong/crazy, but what I like about pinball is the feeling that you are MAKING the machine do things - Watching a great DMD animation or intro feels like I personally made it happen... watching live action clips or full rendered cutscenes I think will feel like I'm just triggering things. Kinda like how the old CD ROM games played - do XYZ and you watch a video... wooo. Despite the graphics and engine limitations, I think in-game cutscenes and live action events are much better on old consoles and PC games because you feel like you're part of the action rather than just triggering animation clips.

    Once I play WoZ I'll know for sure.

    If the LCD draws in paying customers, thats a different story altogether that I personally don't care too much about.

    #38 6 years ago
    Quoted from Captive_Ball:

    You have this on video or any official Stern postings? First I have heard this.

    No. It could be incorrect, but this is what I was told. I guess time will tell.

    #39 6 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Even if they used a DMD sized LCD wouldn't the cost of the LCD be pretty close to a DMD?

    No, because you need a whole new computing system to deliver those graphics. SAM is the processor equivalent of a GameBoy Advance. It cannot deliver hi-res graphics. The display is not the bottleneck.

    WOZ on the other hand has a linux computer driving it. Gets the job done, but costs more.

    #40 6 years ago
    Quoted from LesManley:

    No. It could be incorrect, but this is what I was told. I guess time will tell.

    Ahhh, rumors....would like it to be true, but nothing concrete to confirm

    #41 6 years ago
    Quoted from teekee:

    I agree! And it is just another 'cool factor' that really doesn't fit pinball very well IMO but does get your attention. It can take a bland game and make it cool... temporarily.
    Don't get me wrong, I am fine with LCD technology in pins but not at the expense of the BG and it certainly doesn't have to be gargantuan...
    This is why Stern continues to succeed... keep it simple, keep it pinball, keep it fast and fun!

    wow, teekee and i agree... i'm going to buy lottery tickets this afternoon!

    23
    #42 6 years ago

    Let's see....which one looks better? I don't know. Its so hard to tell. I mean, the bra is so well defined in the DMD version......

    Tell me which version would draw a 13 year old boy in to play a game.

    ScreenHunter_01_Sep._24_20.13.jpg Alice-Eve.jpg

    #43 6 years ago

    My vote is go back to alphanumeric. DMDs and LCDs looked awesome when I first got into pinball, but after playing more I'd rather play games designed with great audio callouts where you are never supposed to look up from the playfield.

    #44 6 years ago
    Quoted from gearheaddropping:

    Let's see....which one looks better? I don't know. Its so hard to tell. I mean, the bra is so well defined in the DMD version......
    Tell me which version would draw a 13 year old boy in to play a game.

    I'm sorry...were you saying something?

    #45 6 years ago
    Quoted from Captive_Ball:

    I'm sorry...were you saying something?

    I know. Alice Eve has it all going...including a degree from Oxford.

    These machines are made for arcades. You need to attract people to play games in arcades. My question is which moving graphic is more likely to entice someone to put in 50 or 75 cents to play the game? Its as simple as that.

    Stern missed the boat with operators (their main customer) by not including an LCD on Star Trek...in my opinion. You can say all you want about "not playing the back box" or "I never look up" but a static backglass is no longer enough to entice people to play pinball when games like Deal or No Deal have an LCD playing in the same room.

    #46 6 years ago
    Quoted from mario_1_up:

    There machines are cost enough already. I don't want a $500 jump in price for a display.

    But, if having a full LCD display with real people special effects was a $500 mod I bet it would sell at that price.

    #47 6 years ago

    Ok...now I see what you are saying...was too busy looking at Alice in your previous post. You make a valid arguement

    #48 6 years ago
    Quoted from gearheaddropping:

    Let's see....which one looks better? I don't know. Its so hard to tell. I mean, the bra is so well defined in the DMD version......
    Tell me which version would draw a 13 year old boy in to play a game.

    That is the perfect example.

    #49 6 years ago

    I see the arguments about the size and placement of the LCD, but ...
    Was a DMD an improvement over the older scoring mechanisms?

    If you say "yes", then I don't understand your desire for no LCD. An LCD will improve the interface between the players/audience and the machine ... and I put players in plural for a reason. It provides something to look at for those that are not currently playing the ball, and it provides more information to the current player on the status of their play (modes, etc.) Just as the resolution helps makes the picture clearer, the color conveys more information. It is win-win.

    Embrace new technology.

    #50 6 years ago
    Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

    If the LCD draws in paying customers, thats a different story altogether that I personally don't care too much about.

    Bingo. Jack hopes that WOZ will help resurrect more public pinball. If JJP is successful, I'm sure the large/luxurious LCD will get a lot of credit.

    For home use, I just don't see the thrill of a massive LCD. Utilizing LCD's and updating the software to display high resolution images is goodness...no one can effectively argue that single color dots are better than full color, high def images.

    If Stern's LCD filled up the new ST speaker panel, I'd be happy...I really see no need for it to be massive like JJP's.

    That's part of the dilemma for these companies...deciding what customer to fully focus on...

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