Hopefully very soon. I’m sure it will be very limited at first then slowly expand to allow more connectivity. I predict camera/video interaction with friends/opponents. Pinball will become more and more interactive as companies focus on story telling and an online community.

So then will we need virus, Trojan and spyware protection for our machines?

Everyone who loves this idea is cool with the added costs of networking hardware and the programming time it will require and the costs associated with that right?

Somehow there’s always a couple cameras too, just to pad the budget some more. Sensors to check pitch, anti-cheating tech that won’t work. Some doofus will cheat and ruin the leaderboards for everyone.

I get it. Not being a mindless hater. But you know why in tech we call the Internet Of Things the Internet Of Shit? Putting something online comes with costs, and not all of them financial.

Just be careful what you wish for. I think I’m good with my games just being good old offline pinball personally.

I hope I get cheaper pins from sellers who buy new online pins.

Yes, spot on. I will never own a pinball machine with a camera in it.

Someone actually explain what “Head to Head gameplay is” and how it would even be remotely satisfying. Or why high scores matter when every game is set up differently. Anyone wishing for online pinball has a case of the “Wouldn’t it be cool ifs”. Pinball companies can barley get out games that are finished with fully tested rules....you think they’re going to bother with online play? Pinball isn’t a video game. It’s not Fortnite, where you actually see people in real time and what they’re doing. Pinball is “man vs. machine”. That’s what it is. Don’t try to wish it into something it’s not “cuz it would be cool”.

Only reasons pinball could use online functions:
-To notify operators of problems & allow them to remotely change settings
-To notify the public of a location
-To notify the public of a unit’s ongoing Tournament setting
-To auto-code update.

That’s it. Online play makes zero sense..if anyone actually attempted it, you’d see how stupid it was and would wonder why they bothered.

WiFi connectivity is coming to Pinball whether you like it or not.

My guess is DR will have it first, closely followed by Stern and JJP.

I don't think it's such a bad thing and I certainly understand the purists point of view against this tech .

The issue is players and serious pinheads just want more and more.

For pinball continued success innovation is necessary and connectivity will be part of this.

It's unfortunate the naysayers are so paranoid about hackers. So what ? you are all on a PC every day ?

My main concern is Pinball will go Poker machine style with huge curved screens, hey that's another debate

Anyway great times for Pinball across the board and for the most the Pinball community is awesome.

Bring on the future.

PS

I will be happy with just Bluetooth so I can hook in my wireless Headphones

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Look at the dart community. Cameras and online tournaments. Clearly that could be cheated easier than pinball. I think remote play and head to head play would be really cool.

I think pushing the bounds and trying new things is usually a good thing.

Online play sounds like a total nightmare.

I think we’ve been over this before in another thread... but I can’t imagine dialing up an online game only to drain out, then sit and wait for an opponent to play their balls.

Snooze fest.

When I have time to turn on my pins after a day of work, I’m looking for some time to live in my own little world. A distraction. I really have little desire to watch someone else play.

Hopefully never. This idea sucks.

Let's not root for turning pinball machines into BBHs and Golden Tees.

Was started but not completed. Kelly Packard's Golden Cue ( which became Sharkey's Shootout ) Had a Golden Tee Fore style topper for on line.

LTG : )

Well my point really, without addressing the specifics, is that if that’s true you’re paying for it, like it or not.

This stuff isn’t “free”. Not shitting on Stern, but when they can’t afford separate targets in Munsters you think WiFi is where the money should go?

I’ll take the BOM in toys and keep updating my games occasionally with a thumb drive instead given the choice.

It’s not that I can’t think of features to use it for. I can. It’s just not where I want the focus. I play games online already, that’s what my PC and PS4 are for.

8/23/2019

A better question is "Why will stern be online?"

IT'll hardly ever work, ops will never use it, location Wi-Fi tends to be too flaky and change passwords often...

The effort it would take for a Stern pinball machine to operate on Wi-Fi efficiently and correctly would negate any supposed convinience to an op as far as software and firmware updates. They'd be "servicing" the game far more often than they do now just to keep the Wi-Fi connection hunky dory.

Not to mention most ops are in a cash-heavy business and also crazy (and paranoid) and aren't likely going to be interested in even the slightest possibility of their audits and adjustments being hacked.

Just like a million other things that people think Stern can just whip up in 5 seconds to give a whirl, it would divert time, money, and resources to something that simply isn't very useful.

I can barely read this post without my head exploding. Seriously. All of you must be:

listening to cd's and tape cassettes because streaming music could get hacked and is online
playing with your old NES instead of Tetris 99 on the switch, or games on your phone.
be using a rotary phone instead of cell phone because who would ever want to have a phone with them?
watching your CRT tv's that are safe from that streaming technology, because who would ever want to watch exactly what you want when you want to?

I need the Grandpa Simpson meme here, lol. Can anyone name something that's worse with online added to it? I'm having a hard time thinking of anything.

Refrigerator
washing machine
doorbell
watch
frying pan (kid you not)
fork (kid you not)
toaster oven
I can go on and on

Putting internet on everything is a very stupid trend.

That slot machine looks terrible. Mechanical reels for life!

Well when you put your head back together why don't you explain to the rest of us your understanding of how this all works.

Who's writing the network stack? Can any of Stern's programmers do that? Maybe they can, I have no idea. Say Lyman can write it. Is that what you want his time to be spent on? You don't just stick a wifi daughter board onto Spike and call it a day.

We already established that anyone who's a fan of this idea wants more expensive games, so okay you're in to pay for the wifi hardware in the BOM, and to pay for the programmer to write the stack and create an API for the programmers to learn to use in their games. I dunno that you're going to have a line following you down the block to pay more for games though.

But the costs don't end there. You need to maintain a server for all these games to phone home to. Even if the ultimate goal is a peer to peer connection there needs to be a central server to initiate that. Who's maintaining that, after the hardware is paid for and it's been set up?

If you've got answers for all that, and can explain to me how it's actually going to be very reasonable, with some cost estimates, then you can talk shit to us like we're the luddites. Until then keep your snarky attitude.

This is a major boom and reads like an encyclopedia of stuff people don't consider but should before they say "Why isn't Stern online?! It's a NO-BRAINER!"

Connecting the games online is the way to go... if you go to a show like IAAPA you'll see tons of games connected online where you can play other people across the World. That is a great feature.

Furthermore the game should tell you there is an update, and boom it does it.

All this would be great for pinball just like XBOX live.

Who wouldn't want to see your friends, and play them for fun?

We've been over this and the answer is "everybody."

Nobody will want to do this, it'll be an expensive novelty that nobody will use. Playing pinball "head to head" online would not be fun so it would not be used.

It's a gimmick you'll show off to your bored brother in law. Then you'll try to show it off to your bored kids. You'll then give up and never use it again.

Aren't those real expensive to buy, and expensive to operate ( have on line ) ?

LTG : )

Basic online functionality like leaderboards and updates is a great idea.

Online head to head play is an entirely different beast. If someone could make it work tho it would be really neat, those online dartboards are pretty cool.

I do not think WiFi and BT modules/hardware will add to the BoM in a big way
All this tech is inexpensive these days.

Granted, network servers and skilled and dedicated programmers will be required. This is where some cost will be involved.

I dunno, it's no big deal

Embrace it or walk away

Either way its gonna happen

Again, pinball isn't videogames. When I'm playing Tetris 99, I can SEE all the other Tetris players and interact with them in a way that makes sense. For those of us that are sooooo stupid, PLEASE - explain what "online pinball" would be?

Cuz here's the reality...when you're playing pinball, you're looking at THE PLAYFIELD. Not another player or their playfield. So...in a theoretical "head to head" pinball match, what is happening exactly? I'm playing MY machine...while someone is playing THEIR machine. Where is the compelling VS gameplay aspect. OK, I'm hearing you say "Well they do something and it affects YOUR machine" ...OK, what if they "do something" while I'm drained and getting ready to shoot a new ball? What even is the "something"? Let's say we're playing MM "against" each other...they blow up a castle and I see it happening on my playfield? Anything someone "does" to my game will just look like a bunch of bugs and glitches. Sorry, but Pinball is YOU vs. MACHINE...it inherently can't act like an online game where you see someone else's avatar reacting to you in real time.

NBA Fastbreak had linked gameplay. Gimmick no one cared about, didn't move the needle. P3 has the same thing...it's cute at shows, but no one gives a flying F....and those games MAYBE work because they're head to head in person....online? I'm telling you, you'd try it a few times and never do it again.

But please....explain the design of a "head to head" online pinball game, how it would work and why it would be fun. Go. SHOW US how we're dumb, you can't just compare pinball to other technology that clearly lends itself to online use.

Why? How are the scores on one machine remotely relevant to the scores on another machine? All machines are set up differently. It's totally irrelevant. Does anyone even care about the high scores on a single machine, unless you beat them? Online leaderboards only make sense for video games...where all conditions are exactly the same.

Pinball is NOT A VIDEO GAME. OK, let's talk Xbox. NONE of the digital pinball games (Zen, Pinball Arcade) have a "play against each other" mode. Cuz it literally makes no sense, because Pinball is already YOU vs. THE PLAYFIELD. Simultaneous multiplayer makes no sense (unless it's Joust pinball, and that game is rare for a reason). They do tournaments and online scoring because everyone is playing "the same game".

Please explain what "playing them for fun" entails. What does that MEAN in relation to pinball. Again, another case of "Wouldn't It Be Cools" without actually thinking what they actually would get in this hypothetical scenario.

JJP would be the viable candidate to do this since their pins are PC based. Think Xbox. It's subscription based so theoretically the cost wouldn't be burdened upon all because the extra coding would be paid for eventually by subsciptions. The company would have to feel comfortable enough that enough of the market would utilize it. A side benefit would be automatic firmware updates though. That would be super nice. Adding head to head competition would really be something. Add balls, take away balls, forcing modes on another player etc etc.

Some kind of online functionality is essential to the evolution of pinball. Leaderboards are the simplest thing. Setup issues are obviously real, but if you assume that not everyone is a dirty cheater and is smart enough to set their game up level and at 7 degrees with a standard outlane setting (or come up with a hardware solution to police it) and it could be fun to compare scores against more than just your friends who visit.

How’s it really different than the concept of a selfie league?

Haven't you played a game you own also at a show, or at league, or a friend's house or on location before? Your Metallica at home, vs one at a show.

Don't they feel different? Playfield angle tuned differently. Flipper rubber condition, or rubber vs superband, are they snappy, little underpowered, just binding a bit in a dirty sleeve. Scoop that fires SDTM when it should be feeding the flipper? How's the tilt, little more sensitive, harder to save balls heading into the slings?

The same game does not play the same all over.

Surely you've played a waxed vs clean vs dirty playfield before? Do you tune your switches? How sensitive are your slingshots? How hard do you need to hit your targets? They need a real solid hit, or tuned tight and light?

Games are set up differently even if playfield angle is measured by a chip and sent to the server and you have to match. Hey, let's add to the cost and go with a digital tilt lol.

I don't consider scores across two games really worth comparing at all. You play the game you're on, with how it's set up, and it's you vs the machine. Some give up big points easier than others. That's pinball.

I'd maybe watch side by side games, where the players switched and each played a game both. But you don't need wifi for that.

I agree a subscription could make it work. None of this is technically impossible at all. It's just not free. The costs have to make sense, and be paid for, it's not magic. Do they keep supporting the game after it's off the line? That's a cost too.

So if you want it, you're saying things like "sure, I'd pay for a subscription to my pinball".

Again you're forgetting that both playfields are doing entirely different things. They're not in sync like online video games. What would adding/taking balls and forcing modes even be? That would just seem like your game is glitching out. I really don't think you guys are considering GAME DESIGN at all when you throw these rando ideas out there. Please, think beyond "wouldn't it be cool if...." ....truly think about what you're asking for and how it would be remotely functional or fun. Pinball is Player vs. machine...when you're done, you get a score. That's the game. Wanna compete? Your score vs. other scores on that machine. That's pinball. It will never be Fortnite....ever.

Golden tee has done this for years with there home edition. No need for built in WiFi when you can just add a 25$ bridge or hardwire it to an Ethernet port.

I don’t think anyone is saying every game plays the same, but they play similar enough. Let’s keep in mind we aren’t talking about 30 year old games that have been rebuilt a dozen times but a new game built to certain tolerances.

Yes you can change the way a game plays in various ways so you ask the players to adhere to certain standards. End of the day it’s all for fun anyways, and to hopefully sell a few more machines and get a few more players interested.

We actually have an online doorbell and it's been incredibly useful. How?

1) During the fires when we evacuated we were able to remotely see via our video doorbell that mail service was still on, letting us know that it was likely perfectly safe to return.

2) I had a package delivered that I was able to talk to them remotely via the doorbell so they could leave it at the doorstep.

3) My phone automatically pops up video of who is at the door when someone rings the bell, letting me know whats going on there.

4) It notifies me if someone is lingering at our door and not ringing the bell.

5) I can video monitor the front of the house anytime I want from anywhere in the world.

...etc, I could go on but online doorbell has been awesome for us, we'd never go back to a normal doorbell ever again.

More to the topic, I'm all in favor of online. I really don't expect pinsiders to be into it because I suspect the average age of folk here is fairly high and sorry to stereotype but older folk just aren't into this sort of thing. But it's a new frontier that should be explored, we won't know what will be possible with it until people try. I'm sure there will be some terrible ideas, but good stuff will eventually come from it.

For me a simple neat feature would be able to play with a friend via a video chat. So I see my friend playing his game at his location, and I'm playing mine and we can chat, compete, etc while our respective scores are displayed on screen. More advanced would be like puzzle games do on console, like Puyo Puyo or Tetris 99 where you can compete with someone on the same game by throwing obstacles in their way. Like say hit a bank of drop targets on mine to say remove their multipliers or raise some obstacle on their playfield. Or maybe we play cooperatively where I can trigger multi ball on theirs, stuff like that where the goal is the best combined score.

I mean who knows really, the sky's the limit, but you have to start somewhere.

I’ve seen it all. A Doorbellgument. Pinball is over. Lol.

I figured cargument was due for a replacement

I might be 60, but I embrace the vast majority of online thinking, but pinball is a different animal, can't we have one thing that isn't tracked and connected!!

Well we'll totally disagree there... look at JJP screens they're so giant you could be playing four of your buddies, showing their face, hearing them talk, its about FUN! No one is saying have online tournaments just finding people to play against connecting the World of pinball to all across the World.

There are zillions of games now that do the same exact thing from dart boards to racing games and well everything XBOX.

Tons of people will embrace this and look forward to seeing their pinball buddies from across the World while they shoot a game of Batman against each other.

No not at all this isn't new technology, as long as you have a camera, screen and web access you're good to go. Tons of games are incorporating these features into games now. Lets put it this way every single person on here bashing this idea, well guess what is it going to hurt pinball? Is having that ability going to something bad? Give me a break, people will embrace it fully. It really doesn't matter what people say pro or con its going to happen I've been told already by every pinball company they're making the games wifi ready, with cameras.

Its not going to take away anything. People will have fun connecting with buddies and playing pinball. I think some people are drastically over thinking this concept.

I just can't see me wanting to log in to some network and find some random person to do an online game with. For me, I'm playing against the machine. I don't think the majority of owners would use it for gaming. All we need is the ability to update or auto update online. Anything else would be used to drive up price at a time where prices need to stop or go down. Look at the virtual community. If there ever was a group who would have pioneered this, it would have been them. And they haven't. Why? Because nobody wants it.

2:14 am August 29th
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Yes, Arachnid came out with this March 2012. Galaxy 3 dartboard.

Haha, we just started an IoT division in our eng. department. No one knows what they do.

Permission to steal this phrase?

It’s not a feature I want to pay for. If it further detracts from the r&d portion of a pinball bom then I’m quite against it.

Connect it yourself if you want it connected. https://scorbit.io/scorbitron

At first I thought it would be good for having machines on location, but after thinking about it, I don't love the idea. Remote checks on the machine would discourage an operator from checking on the machine personally. The software won't know if a screw is banging around on the playfield, if vandalism damage occurred, or if there are other issues tech alerts won't catch. I think most good operators would want to have a more personal presence. So my vote is 'nah', don't want to pay for it.

How much do you think Stern would charge monthly to play online?

What if the player could input the issue to alert the op: “broken rubber”, “right flipper is weak”, etc