Los Angeles, CA
Quoted from 27dnast:Greg, ever consider running for president?
I value facts, ethics, science, equality & abhor bigotry, violence and hypocrisy.
Not sure I could win these days. 
(Topic ID: 241500)
I'll do ya one better! Atari Mindlink!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_Mindlink
mindlink--article_image-1 (resized).jpgQuoted from Rarehero:Waiting for someone to explain a functional and fun online pinball game design.
Here's a very simple but functional head to head game which many people who have played it have said is fun:
Blurb from the Multimorphic website:
"Heads Up! is the first internet-connected game for the P3. Play against an opponent on another P3 in the same room or anywhere in the world! Heads Up! creates a shared playfield across two connected machines, presenting the exact same targets to both players. Shoot green gem shots, and you score points. Shoot red portal shots, and your ball goes to your opponent, allowing them to rack up more points. It’s simple in concept but layered in strategic complexity. As shots are made and missed, the gems and portal shots change state. Master the timing to maximize points!"
Quoted from solarvalue:Here's a very simple but functional head to head game which many people who have played it have said is fun:
Blurb from the Multimorphic website:
"Heads Up! is the first internet-connected game for the P3. Play against an opponent on another P3 in the same room or anywhere in the world! Heads Up! creates a shared playfield across two connected machines, presenting the exact same targets to both players. Shoot green gem shots, and you score points. Shoot red portal shots, and your ball goes to your opponent, allowing them to rack up more points. It’s simple in concept but layered in strategic complexity. As shots are made and missed, the gems and portal shots change state. Master the timing to maximize points!"
https://www.multimorphic.com/store/p3-game-kits/heads-up/
Well aware of that, and that proves the point that a concept like this doesn’t move the needle. It’s cute at shows but
no one wants it. Now - let’s imagine this game is sold on internet gameplay. With a user base of 8, how often will anyone actually be online to play?
Since we’re talking about Stern - they don’t have a virtual playfield and modules, so they’d have to make the game purely simple like this to work as an online game...but then would it be good or fun as a single player/local co-op game, the reason most people buy pinball machines? ...and even with a probably larger Stern user base, would a user base of 500-1000 or so be worth tailoring a pinball machine for online play?
Stern knows pinball is pinball. Pinball fans like pinball because it’s pinball. There’s a reason Stern has grown like crazy since 2012, and P3 hasn’t made a blip.
Quoted from alveolus:Levi, I like you and tend to agree with you more often than not, but you definitely have some curmudgeonly tendencies.
The only fact that matters to me is that unlike most of the naysayers posting here, I actually own a machine with basic online functionality and I find it cool and fun and see huge potential.
For example, imagine how effortless it would be to run a best game format tournament on a bank of machines with connectivity. The machine ques you up and notifies you via your phone app. You go to the machine and verify your IFPA number, play your game and the machine sends your score to the tournament software. Completely automated!
But I’m sure you will prefer you no. 2 pencil and graph paper.
and then you cheat so you are high score? The whole reason this is..well dumb...is just that. It will be about as fun until someone decides to 'cheat' because you can't have a tournament of pinball machines on different locations with different settings. I know it sounds amazing in theory, it won't work that way.
Quoted from solarvalue:Here's a very simple but functional head to head game which many people who have played it have said is fun:
Blurb from the Multimorphic website:
"Heads Up! is the first internet-connected game for the P3. Play against an opponent on another P3 in the same room or anywhere in the world! Heads Up! creates a shared playfield across two connected machines, presenting the exact same targets to both players. Shoot green gem shots, and you score points. Shoot red portal shots, and your ball goes to your opponent, allowing them to rack up more points. It’s simple in concept but layered in strategic complexity. As shots are made and missed, the gems and portal shots change state. Master the timing to maximize points!"
https://www.multimorphic.com/store/p3-game-kits/heads-up/
So as long as they are all digital, and right next to each other, sure. Go for it.
I think most reservations are that someone like me, out in bublef*ck nowhere playing 'online' against someone else on a real actual analog(because that's what it ultimately is) pinball machine will not be that amazing experience you think it is. The game of 'pinball' would need to be reinvented, AND be all digital...as in a video game.
You want something like this? Do it on a virtual cab which is digital and can show you what the other persons ball is doing in real time, otherwise all this talk about tournaments, and head to head play across country, and high scores is just fluff and meaningless, even if it sounds cool in theory.
Quoted from Rarehero:It literally makes no sense.
I think you meant to say you make no sense. Pinball has been using video screens since the late 80's. Multiple games listed in Pinside top 100 have video game elements to them... games as recently as Houdini have video elements, as does Pirates where you can play liar's dice. We need to bring back some of those features because it adds to the game. You can call yourself a pinball purist that's fine but you're just one person.
Pinball companies don't live or die based on people like you buying a game. They need customers well outside the realm of pinside, they need casual players to put coins in otherwise entertainment centers won't buy the games.
Anything that improves the game is a bonus adding wifi to the games opens up the possibilities to what is possible. Your line of thinking is dead wrong, because that keeps pinball in the stone ages. With time everything gets old, which is why every few years the corvette gets a new design.
Speaking of which now Corvette is on an all out change going mid-engine, wow over 50 years of Corvette and now there is finally mid-engine. I wonder why?
Pinball is going to add WIFI and once they do they'll open themselves up to all sorts of possibilities, and fine new players, owners and fans.
Quoted from drfrightner:I think you meant to say you make no sense. Pinball has been using video screens since the late 80's. Multiple games listed in Pinside top 100 have video game elements to them... games as recently as Houdini have video elements, as does Pirates where you can play liar's dice. We need to bring back some of those features because it adds to the game. You can call yourself a pinball purist that's fine but you're just one person.
Pinball companies don't live or die based on people like you buying a game. They need customers well outside the realm of pinside, they need casual players to put coins in otherwise entertainment centers won't buy the games.
Anything that improves the game is a bonus adding wifi to the games opens up the possibilities to what is possible. Your line of thinking is dead wrong, because that keeps pinball in the stone ages. With time everything gets old, which is why every few years the corvette gets a new design.
Speaking of which now Corvette is on an all out change going mid-engine, wow over 50 years of Corvette and now there is finally mid-engine. I wonder why?
Pinball is going to add WIFI and once they do they'll open themselves up to all sorts of possibilities, and fine new players, owners and fans.
Honestly, even if it does, what will really happen is half baked code and unfinished 'features'
Quoted from drfrightner:Multiple games listed in Pinside top 100 have video game elements to them... games as recently as Houdini have video elements, as does Pirates where you can play liar's dice. We need to bring back some of those features because it adds to the game.
Respectfully disagree. I don't HATE video modes, but I don't particularly care for them. When I'm playing pinball I want to, you know.. play pinball not a video game. I have a bunch of arcade machnes, consoles and PCs for video games.
Quoted from Lamprey:I don't HATE video modes, but I don't particularly care for them. When I'm playing pinball I want to, you know.. play pinball not a video game. I have a bunch of arcade machnes, consoles and PCs for video games.
And I can respect that opinion but no one is talking about turning a pinball game into a video game despite that its already been done. We've seen those games you buy and its nothing but a video screen. We're talking about making pinball games have wifi access so you can get online and play friends anywhere in the World. We're talking about adding wifi so you can update your machine without all the hassles of doing as currently done.
As for adding mini video games within the game, nothing wrong with that and if you're not into that feature don't buy it. I think most of the big time collector games from the 90's have these features so its nothing new. Adding WIFI to pinball is a good thing not a bad thing.
Quoted from drfrightner:I think you meant to say you make no sense. Pinball has been using video screens since the late 80's. Multiple games listed in Pinside top 100 have video game elements to them... games as recently as Houdini have video elements, as does Pirates where you can play liar's dice. We need to bring back some of those features because it adds to the game. You can call yourself a pinball purist that's fine but you're just one person.
Pinball companies don't live or die based on people like you buying a game. They need customers well outside the realm of pinside, they need casual players to put coins in otherwise entertainment centers won't buy the games.
Anything that improves the game is a bonus adding wifi to the games opens up the possibilities to what is possible. Your line of thinking is dead wrong, because that keeps pinball in the stone ages. With time everything gets old, which is why every few years the corvette gets a new design.
Speaking of which now Corvette is on an all out change going mid-engine, wow over 50 years of Corvette and now there is finally mid-engine. I wonder why?
Pinball is going to add WIFI and once they do they'll open themselves up to all sorts of possibilities, and fine new players, owners and fans.
Cargument. You fail. No reason to discuss further. Wifi may come to pinball and has some practical non-gameplay uses. It won’t move the needle or make anyone who isn’t interested in pinball magically become interested in pinball.
Pinball is what it is. An expensive retro coin-op machine. Not a mass produced product for mainstream use like a car.
Quoted from Zablon:now....add a vape to it or give weed as prizes instead of tickets and you might see the popularity skyrocket.
If that three shot thing above was the best example of wifi-connected gameplay just two years ago, you'd already have to have a shit-ton of weed to want to play it.
Quoted from drfrightner:I think you meant to say you make no sense. Pinball has been using video screens since the late 80's. Multiple games listed in Pinside top 100 have video game elements to them... games as recently as Houdini have video elements, as does Pirates where you can play liar's dice. We need to bring back some of those features because it adds to the game. You can call yourself a pinball purist that's fine but you're just one person.
Pinball companies don't live or die based on people like you buying a game. They need customers well outside the realm of pinside, they need casual players to put coins in otherwise entertainment centers won't buy the games.
Anything that improves the game is a bonus adding wifi to the games opens up the possibilities to what is possible. Your line of thinking is dead wrong, because that keeps pinball in the stone ages. With time everything gets old, which is why every few years the corvette gets a new design.
Speaking of which now Corvette is on an all out change going mid-engine, wow over 50 years of Corvette and now there is finally mid-engine. I wonder why?
Pinball is going to add WIFI and once they do they'll open themselves up to all sorts of possibilities, and fine new players, owners and fans.
No offense, but pinball companies aren't searching for casual players to put coins in... where have you been? Pinball companies are 100% focused on the home buyer. Not ops. They've even publicly acknowledged that. The age of players "on location" keeping the industry afloat are DEAD. Has been for a long time.
Pinball is in the stone ages. That's actually a draw for me... and one of its most charming aspects. Need proof? Come over to my house and live with teenagers and the revolving door of friends that come over.
Quoted from 27dnast:Come over to my house and live with teenagers and the revolving door of friends that come over.
Ask the teens, “Hey teens - what would think of pinball if it had the WIFI like you like these days!?” I’d love to see a video of their reaction. 
Quoted from Rarehero:That’s not a game. That’s not design. That’s barely a concept. That’s “wouldn’t it be cool if....” without any thought behind it. You’ve ignored everything I’ve said so far about design, what pinball actually is, and user bases.
Everything starts with a base. Wouldn’t it be cool if...people would let other people have their opinion. I can understand why internet and pinball would scare older folks, kind of like tv screens in pinball. The poll seems to think you’re on the wrong side, but that’s your opinion and it’s all good. 
It does amaze me that time again people can’t see the difference between a car and a pinball machine but continue to insist on comparing them.
Pinball May one day die but the cargument never will.
Quoted from Wildbill327:I can understand why internet and pinball would scare older folks, kind of like tv screens in pinball.
Ohp, there’s the “youre old and out of touch” crutch once again when someone can’t actually debate their side of the issue intelligently. No one’s “scared” of the fucking internet...I’m probably younger than most people on this forum. We’re talking about fun and function.
Everyone on Earth uses the internet. We understand how it works & what it’s functions are. I play online games all the time. I work on a computer all day. You can’t use “old and out of touch” as an insult when we’re talking about PINBALL of all things - an ancient and obsolete game....why does it still exist? Because it’s FUN. Fun trumps tech & good games are forever. Tech is irrelevant when it comes to pinball. It’s engineer mindset vs. creative game developer mindset. Hate to keep piling on P3, but it’s such a perfect example of a tech minded approach vs. a fun minded approach. A solution in search of a problem. It’s a perfect example of “wouldn’t it be cool if.....” ...and ill give it that, it is cool - to an extent. I appreciate the tech behind it...but it doesn’t move the needle in the pinball scene/hobby at all.
Hero is beatig a dead horse to far beyond death but he really is making all of the salient points.
I think it’s hilarious when I get accused of “being afraid of the Internet” while arguing with someone...here...literally ON THE INTERNET.
Also, I’m staking my claim to “cargument.” I invented it! Been whining about it on RGP since at least 2005.
So I’ve contributed at least as much to Pinball as jpop.
Quoted from Zablon:and then you cheat so you are high score? The whole reason this is..well dumb...is just that. It will be about as fun until someone decides to 'cheat' because you can't have a tournament of pinball machines on different locations with different settings. I know it sounds amazing in theory, it won't work that way.
I never said anything about different locations, just imagining how it could streamline our location tournaments. You people are trying too hard to be close-minded.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I think it’s hilarious when I get accused of “being afraid of the Internet” while arguing with someone...here...literally ON THE INTERNET.
I was in the middle of typing a response that mirrored Hero's to a T, when his hit first. "You're just scared" is laughable argument, if it could even be called one at all.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Hero is beatig a dead horse to far beyond death
I’m pretty sure he could come from beyond the grave to get in the last word. It must be exhausting.
Quoted from alveolus:I never said anything about different locations, just imagining how it could streamline our location tournaments. You people are trying too hard to be close-minded.
You don't NEED wifi for local. I'm not trying to be close minded at all. WiFI and internet alludes to different locations. There are a number of ways already to do what you are suggesting without Wifi. However, like the video posted above, yes that is one possible thing that could be done - and far more practical than the same thing long distance.
Quoted from alveolus:I’m pretty sure he could come from beyond the grave to get in the last word. It must be exhausting.
Stubborn people who cannot have an intellectually honest discussion are the ones who are exhausting. My weakness is that I hold out hope that people the ability to be objective & discuss an issue without falling back on insults & false equivalency. I give people too much credit. It’s a character flaw I need to work on. 
Quoted from Rarehero:Ohp, there’s the “youre old and out of touch” crutch once again when someone can’t actually debate their side of the issue intelligently. No one’s “scared” of the fucking internet...I’m probably younger than most people on this forum. We’re talking about fun and function.
Everyone on Earth uses the internet. We understand how it works & what it’s finctions are. I play online games all the time. I work on a computer all day. You can’t use “old and out of touch” as an insult when we’re talking about PINBALL of all things - an ancient and obsolete game....why does it still exist? Because it’s FUN. Fun trumps tech & good games are forever. Tech is irrelevant when it comes to pinball. It’s engineer mindset vs. creative game developer mindset. Hate to keep piling on P3, but it’s such a perfect example of a tech minded approach vs. a fun minded approach. A solution in search of a problem. It’s a perfect example of “wouldn’t it be cool if.....” ...and ill give it that, it is cool - to an extent. I appreciate the tech behind it...but it doesn’t move the needle in the pinball scene/hobby at all.
Man you you must really have high blood pressure after writing this. I never said you were scared of the internet... again putting words in my mouth. I simply said that pinball and internet could scare the older crowd two completely different subjects. I really don’t have time to try to make you see what I see or even would want to. I’m just stating my opinion and it’s as simple as that. How about you explain why the pole is pointing to internet and pinball...?
Quoted from drfrightner:And I can respect that opinion but no one is talking about turning a pinball game into a video game despite that its already been done. We've seen those games you buy and its nothing but a video screen. We're talking about making pinball games have wifi access so you can get online and play friends anywhere in the World. We're talking about adding wifi so you can update your machine without all the hassles of doing as currently done.
As for adding mini video games within the game, nothing wrong with that and if you're not into that feature don't buy it. I think most of the big time collector games from the 90's have these features so its nothing new. Adding WIFI to pinball is a good thing not a bad thing.
I know we are talking about adding technology to the games. But, I was responding to what you said about video modes "add(ing) to the game." That was a technology "gimmick" that, I don't believe bought any value to pinball. Similarly, adding "head to head" action (or most the online-play-with-your-friends suggestions) is a gimmick that I don't think adds any value.
Quoted from Wildbill327:Man you you must really have high blood pressure after writing this.
Not at all, I’m just relaxing & watching some shows on my scary internet movie machine, I mean, Netflix. But keep making these wild assumptions about me. You’re wrong every time. It’s cute.
Quoted from Wildbill327:How about you explain why the pole is pointing to internet and pinball...?
Pole? lol...back to my scary internet show. Maybe one day I’ll be able to “watch movies against someone” with the internets!!!
I find it amusing that everyone's always looking for the "next great thing" to save pinball.
Pinball is what it is... and it's beautiful because of it. But, geez... you all gotta realize, basically no one cares about it outside of some random interactions. And the next generation? They are off to things that are completely different than pinball.
Perhaps video pinball will, someday, utilize the internet. But true physical pinball? Highly doubtful.
Quoted from 27dnast:basically no one cares about it outside of some random interactions.
And interest is growing. Why? It's not because EMs are being produced and sold by the thousands to home buyers. It's many factors.
We don't know what implementations will be produced. Maybe Scorbit will really take off like Color DMD has. Maybe some new methodology no one knows about yet.
It doesn't take even a majority of users to make a successful product. Billions of people don't watch Family Guy. Still a successful show.
I don't use Amazon Alexa or Dots. Some people love them. The connectivity gives those people something. Some people WANT to turn on their lights with their smartphone.
Stern pinball connectivity is coming eventually. Time will tell what people use it for.
Quoted from Rarehero:Hate to keep piling on P3, but it’s such a perfect example of a tech minded approach vs. a fun minded approach. A solution in search of a problem.
Well, one of the major problems with pinball has always been the fact that multiplayer play is turn-based. The famous Gottlieb slogan is "it's more fun to compete" but in pinball when you compete you have to wait around, hoping your friend will drain while you wait for your turn. The P3 solves this with networked head-to-head and multiplayer play. Internet connectivity makes this even more attractive, because you can play with anyone, anywhere in the world.
You asked for an example of a functional and fun head-to-head game and I gave you one. I'm sure Gerry and the rest of the team would agree that Heads Up! and Cosmic Cart Racing are just a start but they open up enormous possibilities. Maybe it hasn't made much of an impact in the pinball hobby yet but new people and kids at shows love it and it has also had success on locations which have a high percentage of casual players. This is the demographic that pinball needs to appeal to in order to grow.
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:I don't use Amazon Alexa or Dots. Some people love them. The connectivity gives those people something. Some people WANT to turn on their lights with their smartphone.
Stern pinball connectivity is coming eventually. Time will tell what people use it for.
I guess using Alexa or a Smartphone to turn the machines on/off could be better/easier than trying to reach under backbox for a switch... But, I'd think it'd be cheaper to move it back near the front so it's more easily accessible (again).
Quoted from Lamprey:I guess using Alexa or a Smartphone to turn the machines on/off could be better/easier than trying to reach under backbox for a switch... But, I'd think it'd be cheaper to move it back near the front so it's more easily accessible (again).
or a clapper 
Quoted from Zablon:or a clapper
Umm, this is a discussion of advancement of pin tech!!
But, seriously.. the Clapper might be a better way to turn Stern games on/off...
Quoted from solarvalue:You asked for an example of a functional and fun head-to-head game and I gave you one. I'm sure Gerry and the rest of the team would agree that Heads Up! and Cosmic Cart Racing are just a start but they open up enormous possibilities. Maybe it hasn't made much of an impact in the pinball hobby yet but new people and kids at shows love it and it has also had success on locations which have a high percentage of casual players. This is the demographic that pinball needs to appeal to in order to grow.
Ok, that is true that you gave me those examples. There are so many hurdles and problems tho. To have head to head in person, that’s $20k. That’s a no-go for locations and homeowners. As games, they’re not that different than iPhone apps but with pinball mechs. What is the fun longevity of those games? The likelihood that enough people would buy them to build a user base? As we’ve already seen - they haven’t had traction.
Casual players like casual free or 99 cent phone games. You’re not gonna rope them into pinball.
Bringing it back to Stern & a traditional pinball playfield. They’ve grown immensely with pinball as pinball. While P3 has made head-to-head work with an app style tech demo game....I don’t see that working with a typical “player vs machine” game that Stern produces. Pinball does need something to hook casuals - and history has shown that a great obvious mech to interact with (MM castle, POTC ship) is the key. There’s a reason pinball has hung on all these years despite leaps in tech in other aspects of life. Cuz good pinball is always good. It’s retro by nature, and people dig retro. The public didn’t need pinball to turn into P3. 
P3 is an interesting twist on pinball, and personally I think it's a novel idea that didn't go far enough. They need a P3v2 etc. However I agree the overhead just for what we are talking about here is immense. Again, I think even if wifi is implemented in Sterns(or normal pinball in general) it will be minimal, buggy, and lots of unfinished (but highly publicized and hyped pre-sale feature!!) and promised features that never actually happen. I mean, they barely get code done on the game itself when it comes out and they have even more work to do with LCD's.
Charging for downloadable content is the obvious business play for Stern. That is why internet enabled machines will happen. Rarehero where is your debate on this? And I mean I’d like to hear your argument for/against it from the business, feasibility and fun aspects...
Quoted from phoenixpin:Charging for downloadable content is the obvious business play for Stern. That is why internet enabled machines will happen. Rarehero where is your debate on this? And I mean I’d like to hear your argument for/against it from the business, feasibility and fun aspects...
Paid DLC for pinball is a no-go. Again, these aren’t video games. Stern can barely get these games finished 2 years after launch. The game is the game...a game that costs $5500-$12000, FFS...charging extra for what should just be in the game & done is an asinine proposition. It’s insulting to the customer & frankly something pinball doesn’t need. It’s another “wouldn’t it be cool if...(a game had all new rules)”. A well designed game should already have an excellent and well designed ruleset...and the only reason pinball machines even get code updates is due to the short development & non-existing testing time...they need to get units out the door ASAP & we’re the guinea pigs. To charge us any further for being their testers would be bonkers. Any “new” content should included in that price. Splatoon 2 is $60 and has received free content update for years. If a $60 game can do that, a multithousand dollar game should do that.
Now - I’m a person that bought BOP 2.0...so you might say there’s a market for new rules. However BOP is a bit different. It was a kit that changed a game of a certain era into a game of the modern era....and most people who have BOP got it used and cheap. It was more of a true hobbyist scenario vs. a new product.
Quoted from phoenixpin:Charging for downloadable content is the obvious business play for Stern. That is why internet enabled machines will happen. Rarehero where is your debate on this? And I mean I’d like to hear your argument for/against it from the business, feasibility and fun aspects...
100% true. Games will come with base code. Want the new update? Then pay for the download. Want the new modes? Pay the man. I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't Deeproot's plan. Lower cost base model and pay for downloadable content to add modes and pay for new modes and features. So games ship with "full code" with more to come.
Quoted from alveolus:What if the player could input the issue to alert the op: “broken rubber”, “right flipper is weak”, etc
This could be accomplished via a simple text to the OP's cell phone. No fancy tech needed.
Quoted from Lamprey:I guess using Alexa or a Smartphone to turn the machines on/off could be better/easier than trying to reach under backbox for a switch... But, I'd think it'd be cheaper to move it back near the front so it's more easily accessible (again).
You can achieve that right now... Lutron Caseta. Cheap, easy to install, works with smart home systems.
Quoted from gweempose:This could be accomplished via a simple text to the OP's cell phone. No fancy tech needed.
It could be nice if there was a support feature where a stern tech could remotely access your game to help diagnose/troubleshoot issues. But part of the fun of pinball is hunting down and fixing things right?
Quoted from jrockne:It could be nice if there was a support feature where a stern tech could remotely access your game to help diagnose/troubleshoot issues. But part of the fun of pinball is hunting down and fixing things right?
You can't even get them to answer the phone. Good luck getting them to remote into your machine.
Quoted from jrockne:It could be nice if there was a support feature where a stern tech could remotely access your game to help diagnose/troubleshoot issues. But part of the fun of pinball is hunting down and fixing things right?
It seems like the better idea would be to not put a bandaid on old tech... rather develop new tech that doesn't require such intensive maintenance. For my dollar, that would trump WiFi
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:And interest is growing. Why? It's not because EMs are being produced and sold by the thousands to home buyers. It's many factors.
We don't know what implementations will be produced. Maybe Scorbit will really take off like Color DMD has. Maybe some new methodology no one knows about yet.
It doesn't take even a majority of users to make a successful product. Billions of people don't watch Family Guy. Still a successful show.
I don't use Amazon Alexa or Dots. Some people love them. The connectivity gives those people something. Some people WANT to turn on their lights with their smartphone.
Stern pinball connectivity is coming eventually. Time will tell what people use it for.
->Simple WiFi connectivity for firmware updates: GOLD. So many basic (and relatively inexpensive devices) have – and have had – this feature.
I'd be onboard with that.
->Menu Systems transferred to an App environment: GOLD. That would be so nice... especially when it comes to turning up and down volume. Hell, it would be great if I could ask Alexa to turn up the volume on my WOZ. OR, select all of your games and turn volume up and down as a group... get status updates on game batteries... number of plays since balls were changed... rubbers were changed... those things, while not essential, could definitely be very handy.
->Trying to play someone head-2-head on Star Trek or Shrek: FOOLS GOLD! 
Quoted from Rarehero:It won’t move the needle or make anyone who isn’t interested in pinball magically become interested in pinball.
Wrong again. You're so negative it blinds you to the reality of the day you live! Technology is changing everything around you, its moving so fast, you either keep up with it or ultimately you die off. Who's to say pinball won't die off, that we're seeing a phase, which will come and go? The video game industry as a whole suffered several years back due to games going online. The video business had to adapt, and mostly it changed its direction to redemption, it had no choice but to reinvent itself. Pinball can't sit back and rest of what has been for decades, it must look to the future and keep any and every possibility open.
Pinball companies are trying to sell games, and get customers to drop money into the machines so operators will buy them. Pinball must appeal to a wide audience not a small few with small thinking minds like you! Pinball is to survive and thrive it needs more players not less so anything you can add to a pinball that opens more doors is a good thing not a bad thing. You talk like pinball is just made for you, and you only.
I will say it once again pinball companies survive not because of the small few who post on Pinside but the millions of people around the world who visit FEC, bowling centers, sports bars, arcades, and appealing to the consumer market for home game rooms. I can promise you the mass majority of Stern games are not sold to pinsiders, but people outside that realm.
You're thinking closed minded and thoughts like that will keep pinball in the stone ages. If you want pinball to thrive they must keep up and compete against other types of vending machines. If they become to expensive pinball loses, if non-pinball owners stop putting in quarters sales will drastically drop.
Having the ability in a pinball like a racing game, or dart board to compete against other players, win tickets, or anything like that keeps pinball going.
Sad you can't see thru glass!
Quoted from drfrightner:Wrong again. You're so negative it blinds you to the reality of the day you live! Technology is changing everything around you, its moving so fast, you either keep up with it or ultimately you die off. Who's to say pinball won't die off, that we're seeing a phase, which will come and go? The video game industry as a whole suffered several years back due to games going online. The video business had to adapt, and mostly it changed its direction to redemption, it had no choice but to reinvent itself. Pinball can't sit back and rest of what has been for decades, it must look to the future and keep any and every possibility open.
Pinball companies are trying to sell games, and get customers to drop money into the machines so operators will buy them. Pinball must appeal to a wide audience not a small few with small thinking minds like you! Pinball is to survive and thrive it needs more players not less so anything you can add to a pinball that opens more doors is a good thing not a bad thing. You talk like pinball is just made for you, and you only.
I will say it once again pinball companies survive not because of the small few who post on Pinside but the millions of people around the world who visit FEC, bowling centers, sports bars, arcades, and appealing to the consumer market for home game rooms. I can promise you the mass majority of Stern games are not sold to pinsiders, but people outside that realm.
You're thinking closed minded and thoughts like that will keep pinball in the stone ages. If you want pinball to thrive they must keep up and compete against other types of vending machines. If they become to expensive pinball loses, if non-pinball owners stop putting in quarters sales will drastically drop.
Having the ability in a pinball like a racing game, or dart board to compete against other players, win tickets, or anything like that keeps pinball going.
Sad you can't see thru glass!
You type a lot and say nothing...other than insulting me when you can’t intelligently debate this issue. I’m not negative. I’m a realist.
Stop comparing pinball to other technology. It’s a false equivelancy every time you do it. Pinball, an arcade coin-op game did evolve with technology...into video games, a more advanced form of coin-op game...which then led to home video gaming, an affordable mainstream thing that keeps evolving with technology, and that’s fantastic. Pinball is an earlier branch of the evolutionary tree of electronic/arcade gaming. It really doesn’t need to exist anymore. The fact that pinball is here is a testament to the game of pinball...technology is practically irrelevant to it. People like pinball because it’s pinball. Modern tech can make it cooler, but cannot change what it is and why it exists.
Fact: Most people can’t afford pinball or have space for it. They can afford and have space for Fortnite on their phone/tablet/console/PC.
Fact: Internet pinball will never drive the masses to pinball.
Fact: Pinball will always be a niche hobby. People will enjoy it in barcades or in hobbyist or rich people’s homes.
Don’t reply unless you can debate with facts. If you choose to keep ignoring facts & insulting me, that only reflects on you & it won’t change reality.
Quoted from Rarehero:You type a lot and say nothing...other than insulting me when you can’t intelligently debate this issue. I’m not negative. I’m a realist.
Dude seriously you know nothing, you don't type facts, you clearly do not understand the industry at all. You're not giving facts, you're giving a narrow opinion. Have you ever been to IAAPA, Bowl Expo, Amusement Expo, Consumer Electronic Show the tradeshows where all of these games are really bought and sold, where deals are made? There is also major amusement tradeshow around the World, Europe, Middle East, Asia, but for some reason you think only your thoughts matter not the billions of dollars spent by facilities. Do you understand the overall competition for all vending machines, do you understand why an FEC will or won't buy a pinball machine? No you don't.
You think your world is the pinball world you're wrong and basically everything you've said nothing but an uneducated opinion not facts. You have no facts.
Facts are that pinball companies want to sell more games to distributors who sell into location, every pinball company wants their games in a FEC, bowling center, major amusement center, that promotes pinball, their brand, and pinball in general. A new Stern game sitting inside your home doesn't move the needle brother, having 10 pinball games in Punch Bowl Social does.
If a pinball company needs to add features to attraction more people to drop dollars at a bowling center that is exactly what they will do!
You might be the single narrow minded pinball person I've ever discussed things with.
Quoted from 27dnast:No offense, but pinball companies aren't searching for casual players to put coins in... where have you been? Pinball companies are 100% focused on the home buyer. Not ops. They've even publicly acknowledged that..
So if true, why is JJP coming out with a pro model at a lower "stripped" price point for operators? Where have they acknowledged home only focus, I would like to read/listen to it
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