Bride of Pinbot 2.0 has basic online functionality and I love it. Online updating is the best feature but I see lots of potential.

You guys crack me up. I’ll check back in 5 years and see if you’re singing the same tune.

Ps. Here is my profile page:

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If this “be with your friends online while you play” thing is so important... you can do that right now. It’s called FaceTime (or whatever the Android equivalent is). You can prop your phone up against the backbox and talk and laugh the night away.

Game over? Pick up the phone and show everyone your score.

Want to play with others that have the same game? Start a thread here on Pinside and make a “playdate”

The only, IMO, linked gameplay would work is if it two players start a game at the same time and work together to achieve objectives. Example, WOZ: player one has to lock a ball with monkey. Then, as a game play continues, player 2 is the only one able to open castle door and release locked ball.

Something like that. Ultimately tho, something like TNA’s co-op or 2v2 Mode wouldn’t be nearly as fun because the fun of that game’s head2head battle is contained on one table.

But “battling” others is just a terrible idea. If I have 1 hour to play pinball in my gameroom... I’m not going to spend 1/2 that time standing around and waiting for my opponent to drain.

It might work, but it might be too complex to waste a lot of space on the machine with instructions on how to do it. People could just text the phone # usually on the machine. Plus a lot of people wouldn't care to bother with either. I also think you'd end up with a lot of bullshit complaints or if you could type in what's wrong you'd end up with things like "blow me".

I'm sure they want this yesterday like all the other subscription based services out there. Else why would every tv service be doing their own on line stream, it is a REVENUE stream they can budget with!
How many different monthly subscriptions do you now have?!

It would be turned off in about 6 hours due to false reports constantly being sent by kids, smartasses, competing operators, people who do it accidentally etc...

What's it gonna take for people to realize all of this online malarkey is complete nonsense in pinball? You think you want it but you don't. And you certainly don't want to pay for it, which you will.

would this be the end of tournaments where you attend to play, just go online. Save all the travel expense? Cheap to intergrade into the machine? Like a $300 node board that cost like $50 to make? Subscription play? $100 a month? How many would really pay for this? 100? 1000? 10000? Someone going to have to pay Stern to run a subscription service. Maybe they will outsource it over ?

Your last question - spot on. Answer: No

These games are so damn expensive... that kind of community will never exist. You sell a $40 video game (hell... or offer a free app), you get millions of users that allow for a head2head experience nearly any time of day.

Stern might sell a few thousand of any given title. You’ll never have any sort of interactive online community that aligns with the immediacy that online video gaming presents.

No, because the systems aren't running Windows.

I see no real value in online pinball other than maybe code updates. Part of the fun of pinball is to get out and be with prople unless we are trying to create another generation of home video game antisocial introverts afraid of their own shadow out in the real world...

Tournament score broadcast and reporting is something I don't think has been mentioned. Could be a way to streamline things and make reporting a lot more foolproof.

No. Too many variables and cheating opportunities.

Not to mention for many tournament players actual live tournaments are one of the few opportunities to get out of the house, they won't want to give that up.

To me, it just seems like an option. You certainly wouldn’t have to use it if it’s available. Who knows? Maybe try it and you will be surprised. My suggestion is to just keep an open mind.

I'm sort of surprised but not surprised by the lack of enthusiasm for connectivity. People were against having LCD's in pins but it eventually was shown useful. I don't see a head to head function right off the bat unless there's a way to baseline machines. Having some operator like functions like errors, revenue etc. sent via email or app would be pretty useful. If it can be shown to be cheap enough then why not? At $7000 plus for a pin, what's another $100-$200? LOL Crap, we spend more than that on a topper for god sakes. The only company I see trying this is JJP though.
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How much per machine are you willing to pay for this option?

$100-200 increase in machine with no noticeable improvements on the playfield for players? How many full-time staffers or contractors does a pinball company need to pay to make this open-minded option opportunity a reality?

I'm into the open-mind thing, but also the "wi fi bandwagon" should keep an open mind that this is possibly a terrible idea. I haven't seen anybody considering that yet.

Advantages to online connectivity:
- Easier software updates
- Remote monitoring of earnings, malfunctions, etc (mostly for operators)
- Easier reporting of scores during tournaments

Disadvantages
- Extra cost to implement
- Extra fees to unlock features over the web (are there any online video games that don't have this?)
- Manufacturers might start demanding a cut of the the earrings or charging extra for games on free play (e.g. Big Buck Hunter HD)
- Might update the software when don't want to
- Security/hacking
- More tech support issues

Wash
- play against others remotely (As others have mentioned it isn't clear how this would work or if it would really be used beyond just being a novelty).

I dread the day these companies realise they should start charging for new firmware or additional modes/software features.
So the consumer will have to have a paid subscription and then pay for DLC to get a better experience out of their very expensive box with lights. What happens when you sell the pin? Does the DLC stuff your purchased with your account get transferred to the new owner or do you have to do a total factory reset before selling it?
As much as online sounds great (update without the need of a USB stick is my favourite part), there are way too many variables where manufacturers can start charging us for “online” stuff we get for free right now.

Yeah that is a horrible future I can't comprehend.

Hey how many people got Color DMD on their MM remakes for free?

If this pinball renaissance actually survives more than a few more years, it’s almost guaranteed that we’ll see pay-upgrades happen. Look at Stern. They’re already digging for more cash with their insider program (pronounced: pro-grim )

How many people are asking for this on every pin release? No one really. Didn't JJP implement things like being able to control the flippers in DI with a smartphone? Novelty at best. I think more people were turned off by the smart phone features than were attracted to it. It would be cool to have some features like being able to change game settings with an app but how often would you use such a feature. Once and that's about it. It might be a cool tool for ops to be able to remote access game information but not sure how many ops want to do that.

Oh, I'm pretty sure they can afford it, they're just testing how much abuse people will take.

I don't know about you guys, but part of the reason I play pinball is because I can ESCAPE from the grid. I've got my phone, texts, social media, email, yada yada...it is relentless. Sometimes I just shut down and go OTG.

Pinball is quaint and kind of old fashioned feeling. That's why I LIKE it. It's physical parts banging against each other like some funky, imaginative contraption from long ago. I don't need it taking my picture, I don't need it broadcasting my shitty scores or allowing me to play head-to-head with someone from Antarctica "just because that's progress and needs to be done". And when I want to play head-to-head, NOTHING beats having your buds alongside you IN PERSON. Chatting, joking...in real life. It doesn't get more "connected" than that.

Pile on if you want, I don't care. Tech has its excellent uses and I love it sometimes -- but at a certain point a well-intentioned "positive" becomes a "negative".

Alot of people in this thread without much imagination. Seems like a business opportunity for someone like deeproot to me. Kids nowadays love to compete. If you're playing against a friend you can be pretty confident they won't cheat. Imagine being able to do split flipper with someone with the same game as you. Or you both take turns and you can watch on your machine as they flip and hit things (using insert lights and solenoids already in the game). Just a lot of possibilities that would really draw in the new generation. Yes it would cost money, but if you're smart about it you can minimize costs by implementing suggestions such as mine

Quality control for their products outside of their direct control. Indirectly, any operated pinball machine is a showcase for potential home sales. Allow remote updating of software, no more release code on Star Wars at the bowling alley where the op comes to pick up money but never even plays a game, or sends someone who "doesn't know how to update sotware." Remote diagnostics of problems. Interested ops or even Stern themselves could see that the upper flipper on Star Trek isn't working at all (100 games this week, but not a single EOS closure on the upper flipper), or that the Kiss has a rapid fire left flipper (100 games this week, only 1000 right flipper EOS closures, but 35000 left flipper closures). etc etc

I wish I had the same kind of fertile imagination that you do to come to the conclusion that any of the above suggestions would somehow "draw in the new generation."

Just wait until the first time someone hacks into it and plays porn on the large LCD screens ;P It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.

Everything connected to the internet is NOT a must.

How many of the new generation are actually buying pinballs? Does anyone really think that someone is going to buy a 7 grand plus pinball so they can play against their mates instead of buying a $50 game on their PS4/Xbox/Switch/PC?
For the record I'm in my early 30s and I wouldn't even do this let alone be able to convince a friend my age or younger to buy a bloody expensive pinball just to play against me.

I don’t know when they will be online but if Stern continues on someday they will be online. In my opinion it is inevitable.

There are plenty of ways that the online experience can enhance the gaming experience. Lots of simultaneous friendly competitive play options that could be implemented and a lot of ways to do it. So many ideas that haven’t been thought up yet also. I have thought up a few that I believe could be very fun and yes I would be willing to pay for it.

Most everyone here probably has a phone that could link to a pinball (like Dialed In attempted but imo failed in its implementation). Which could absorb the bom costs of not having to add anything physical into each game.

Do I have or care to list every possible way just for someone here to shoot the suggestion down, no I’m not a internet interactive imagineer or engineer.

I can't get enough of some of the least cool people on the planet telling us all what young people would find cool on their pinball machines!

People need to ask their kids if they think online pinball is gonna get them and their friends off the couch. Even if they say yes they are just lying to make you feel better.

“Mom, Dad... I know what I want for Christmas. It’s a Deadpool LE. I know it’s $9,000, but Jimmy’s mom told him he could get one. And Bobby’s parents bought him one yesterday. I promise I’ll keep it in my room. Please can I have one?? We really want to play each other online.”

It's about parents buying one for their kids. If your adorable little prince or princess shows an interest in pinball for the first time due to these features or their friend that has one, guess what mom and the kids are going to ask Dad to buy next.

I can't tell you how many pinball machines I've hauled out of basements cheap that were bought for kids and 10 years later have 500 lifetime plays.

Like the Harley Davidson I bought for 1500 bucks recently.

Kids don't like pinball. They don't want pinball. The model has completely shifted; it's not for kids anymore and nothing will change that. Most people reach pinball maturity in their early 30s now. I think it coincides directly with drop off in sex drive.

To answer the original question of the thread....Stern will be online if another company implements it successfully and demand is proven to be there. But even then, probably long after that.

I personally don't see the appeal. But then again, I still play my Xbox offline and never play multiplayer games. I prefer to be in my own imagination and world when playing any game and don't want another person fucking up my experience.

It honestly wont work that way. I have had so many friends over with their kids who absolutely loved playing all my pinballs and then wanted one....until I tell them how much they cost.

This is already possible with pinballmap.com (and their app) IF the operator wants the comments emailed daily.

As someone who sees every comment left on the Austin pinball map I can tell you this almost never happens. YMMV

This actually made me laugh out loud and sadly might be true.

Separately, I actually think the biggest benefit (drawback depending on your POV) to online pinball will be to the home owners in the form of paying to update the same game with different modes, music and other features. DLC is the main motivation for Stern et al to go online because it is a potential direct extra revenue stream for them. The indirect potential revenue from increased sales to operators because you’ve built a better mousetrap is too much of a maybe to be their biggest motivator here. Plus as the glut of available games continues to grow and outpace the number of collectors and the space they have for machines, there is a stronger drive to Stern making more money on each individual machine they sell especially if it is money related to selling more software and less hardware.

As for myself, I will probably be fine and even glad to pay extra money for new modes, though agree I’ll also be hypocritically wistful for a time where games were cheaper and less connected and annoyed at spending even more money.

Shhh. Don’t derail Levi’s old man rant/hysterics with facts/reason.

I wonder if back in the day people similarly fought against other pinball additions. Like when flippers were added to pinball, did some people rage and say it would ruin the true essence of pinball? Or when the tilt bob was added did people complain that they didn't want their pinball machine watching them? Or when dmd was added did some say it would ruin pinball and turn it into a video game?

Says the guy who thinks the industry should be taking cues from Dutch Pinball. Neither fact nor reason.

And the "example" provided was complete apples and oranges. Mischief would be much easier and more fun if it were simply available in attract mode rather than log on to something called the "austin pinball map" on their phones. YMMV

Every product iteration in history has had detractors. I have no doubt there were people arguing that bagatelle games powered by electricity were ruining the purity of the game.

What could be cool playing head to head would be not a full game, but timed goals. Both machines auto launch a ball at the same time, each player has X amount of time to score a number of points; # of ramp shots; hit various targets, etc. Flippers go dead and balls drain when time expires. All objectives can be configured and agreed upon before starting a game.

Maybe a pinball golf type of game. First "hole" is the completion of an objective within an amount of shots (par), 2nd hole starts another objective, etc.

Those are the cool online features I'd expect to see instead of just both games being link for a full, normal game of pinball.

Why would this be fun? It’s like pinball, but annoying. You can’t see or interact with the other person while you’re concentrating on playing....so what’s the point?

Like it or not you asked for “how” it would actually work in practice, and this is a way.

Your false equivalency game is in overdrive.

Flippers made pinball into pinball. Explain how online play makes pinball into something better. Waiting for a real logical game design theory of “online play” and how it would be more fun than pinball as it exists.

Tilt bobs don’t watch anyone. They keep people from damaging a machine.

DMDs are score displays. They did add video modes, and some people did complain about that since pinball is pinball, why stop to play a lame monochrome video game? Most designers now insist “NO VIDEO MODES”.

It is kind of funny how nobody can explain why any of this nonsense would be remotely enjoyable.

I'm kind of interested in ... if you guys think this would all be so awesome and super cool, why not just do it tonight? I mean, facetime or something. yeah kind of low tech but you can actually see for yourself if there's any reason why this might be fun if everybody Wi-fied up.

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It could, but it wouldn’t be fun. Why would anyone want to play a timed game against someone they can’t see or pay attention to on a machine that’s most likely set up differently?

Is pinball as a game not fun or interesting anymore? If you think pinball NEEDS this head to head thing, I don’t think you like pinball anymore. Play Fortnite, Apex Legends, or Overwatch. Those exist and have 100s of millions of people to play against.

The stubbornness to hold onto bad ideas is kind of an essential trait these days.

I guarantee no one can come up with an online pinball game theory that would be fun or functional. They’ll keep calling us old and closed minded tho. We’re the morons, Levi.

Wow, a lot of assumptions made in this thread with little basis in fact:

- if you are not in favor of online pinball you are “just old” and probably not socially connected either.

-everyone is buying 7k+ pinball so what’s a few more bucks because we gotta grow pinball!

-lcds and tech automatically equate to a “better” pinball machine