New games will earn more, usually much more... but then again, they (generally) cost a lot more than older, used games, too.

I operated System 11 and early WPC games for a while, and they did well, in the right locations, at a cheaper price point. ($0.50 or $0.75 per game)

Once "bulletproofed," they were very reliable as well.

-Mark

All good points, Lloyd.

I guess I should have limited that statement to barcades and the like...most barcades I have been to, where the primary business is the bar, pinball is $0.50 per game, for all but the oldest solid state machines, including new Sterns. Early SS and EM's are usually $0.25. And the bar owns the machines.

-Mark

There wouldn't be an issue with games not able to earn out if you were right.

You're demonstrably (by the market) wrong, irrespective of how many times you and others say otherwise.

Demonstrably (by the market) wrong?

Do you know how much my machines earn on location, what my split is, and how close they are to being paid off?

I'll give you a hint. I love pinball and all, but I wouldn't be doing this (and keep buying new machines) if it wasn't worth my time and investment, and I'm far from the only one.

-Mark

Yes, demonstrated by the market. Location pinball has basically disappeared over the last couple of decades and in fact the commentary here has made clear that the means by which people are "making it" today is through grossly-inflated resale prices to collectors, not earn-outs on original purchase.

It was not THAT long ago that operators would not sell games to collectors at all for the simple reason that they would reduce coin drop and they had no reason to encourage potential competition. They'd rather literally smash them. Why did that change? Because, again as demonstrated by simple mathematics, the capital cost of the machine (at a reasonable discount factor over their service life), the cost of consumables + maintenance and the expected coin drop essentially never allows an earn-out in a reasonable period of time.

So we've seen a shift, but now ops are dependent on that collector resale channel at awfully close to the original NIB price, or collectors-cum-operators who are actually routing machines *they intend to keep as a collection.*

Good luck to you with that as a long-term strategy -- you're going to need it.

Winner!

I'd pay a buck a game and be happier at 3 plays/$2. For that buck, I'd like s nice clean and totally working game. I'm not arguing pro or con here, just stating that I don't mind paying for nice working games.

I am not denying there may have been operators that would rather destroy than pass along, but after 35+ in the coin op biz, I have never known an operator to do this. An integral part of the purchase and operate process was to sell games at end of life to whomever was willing to pay for them. This generated revenue to invest in new product.

And that was when a $2500 game would sell used for around $795 or a $3000 game would sell for around $1300.

The only ones that would really benefit from game destruction were the Distributors. And even they made lots if money on trade ins that were reshopped and put on their showroom floors for those operators that could afford the NIB prices. If it didn't justify getting shopped, they were sold to people like me and my friends that either collected or were willing to put the extra elbow grease into them to either resell or operate.

Video games, on the other hand, were often worthless at end of life and many got broken up and put in the dumpster!

Like Mustang and WWF ?

Ops depending on resale are taking a heck of a risk.

LTG : )

Yeah I have a few games that need to be cycled. trying to build my collection slowly so I can keep games rotating on a semi-annual basis. Think I've made almost 6k this year from three pins that's after split 50/50. I Keep my games in great condition, helps they all came NIB. Cycling helps, That's why golden tee and buck hunter do so well, they are constantly updating. Well that and you can win money. For what ever reason I still have a lot of people still poking away on those megatouches, To bad they went out of business.

I always thought it would be cool to own one of those time crisis 5 machines or a driving game. The time crisis game cost 23k and a new driver is like 8k even one of those phone games cost upwards of 7k or more and they will loose value no matter what. I feel safer sticking to pinball for now, even at an 8k price point. As long as you take care of the machine people actually continue to play it. For some reason a lot of operators don't know this or don't care.

the most annoying complaint I get is "the ball drains to fast".

Well, if you knew what you were doing then...

Especially if it takes 3+ years to break even with revenue sharing at a location. That's a long time to be in the red for a complicated piece of equipment that could break down at any time and only has a warranty of less than a year. And then to only make a profit on the eventual sale--like LTG says, that's a bit of a risk. A lot can happen in that span of time, not to mention that there's a chance that the title is a dud on location or in the collector market.

On the other hand, a redemption game like a sponge bob coin pusher costs quite a bit up-front (just shy of $15k!! ), but people seem to feed it non-stop and it can pay for itself in less than a year at a good location.

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You might void the warranty if used in commercial service.

LTG : )

Wow! still 0.50c a game!

My Mousing Around was 0.40c a game in the late 80s, T2 was 0.60c Then TAF (1992) came out and from then it was $1 a game or 3 games for $2.. Then LOTR (2003) came out and its been $2 ($1.50 US) a game ever since.

I'm estimating 2 1/2 years to 3 1/2 years depending on the economy. I try to steer clear of stuff I know there is no way to get it paid back in the first 3 years. Pinball seems to be right at the cutoff, at least where I am. That and it would help to show a prospective locations, hey I have these also. Especially when there aren't many other operators that even offer them for obvious reasons.

So you could look at it like a win/loose. Takes longer to pay it off, but puts you above the rest. If you know how to fix them.

Even if you have the know-how to perform repairs, if one of those stern node boards goes *poof*, that's $200 right there.

very true, all I can hope is that all the troublesome node boards are replaced by the time the warranty period is up.
It holds true for any game. I have to update golden tee every year and that cost like 600 a game. new bill acceptor here, new video card, new roller bearings, new card reader, new hard drive etc.. it's the cost of doing business, repairs are endless if you want to keep your stuff working. Had to replace the main board and keypad on a vending machine last week that was $470 bucks. *poof*

You won't void the warranty. I have purchased several redemption games from various companies and all their warranties were good for commercial. Ticket redemption games were made for commercial use in any case. Only had to use one warranty claim from ELAUT and they had the replacement part in three days, never had to use the warranties on other branded machines. Peel off those stickers that say void if removed and then you may have a problem....

Duplicate

when will new Ferrari, new yatch, new 500m2 house price out some wealthy people?

I was referring to pinball machines.

LTG : )

Gotcha! When I get my NIB RR WOZ I will NOT be having it on location.

I think the key is to move from the 2D CRT to a true Virtual Reality.
My machines have the C-20 40" concave mirrors and Beam Spliters to create the Colluminated visual effect used in professional flight simulators. The problem is ... the expense.
And there is the problem in life. We either have too much or too little!
The BattleTech shown above was the version I. See my profile for the version II.

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