I love a good "dad rock" pin as much as anyone. Ive owned Metallica, Aerosmith, Iron Maiden and more than one Data East Guns n Roses and have a JJP GNR LE on order. I am 41 years old. Some of my "dream themes" include bands like Def Leppard and Rush.

But I think there is room for more.

The Weeknd.

The music is off-the-charts popular and catchy as all hell even for a "middle aged dad" like most of the pinball buyers. The brand awareness is as high as any artist on earth. But heres where I think it could really shine. The style, the art, the lighting integration, etc could all be every much the concert experience as GNR is today. He is an artist that I think would want to dive into something like this and create an experience the way Slash did. I'd love to see the backglass be designed like a Xenon on total RGB steroids. A ring of lights around the perimeter and a depth to the backglass to create that effect. GNR approach to code would be perfect....do a bunch of stuff, qualify a song of your choosing and have your mind blown with an amazing light show and sound package during multiball.

I think its past time for these pinball companies to move past Dad Rock...but I still want my Rush...

You couldn't be more wrong about the Weeknd. Check the news - Longest record in history to stay on Billboard top 100? The dude is this generations Prince. period.

But its not about him so don't get lost on that - its about the general theming of music pins. If Stern is willing to "risk a production cycle" on Black Knight SOR, they can most certainly take a risk on a slam dunk globally recognized more modern music theme.

As a middle aged man, I really don't think I am an outlier of having interest in BOTH themes like Rush and Aerosmith as well as something more modern. Stern took a risk on BKSOR...I admire that. They need to do more of that. They can afford to, and with risk comes reward.

Look at Spooky and R+M. Be honest, most of the "Dad rock fan boys" who bought R+M had never watched it before the pin was revealed and only then got interested and binged the show and realized that it actually is pretty great.

My point has nothing to do with "bringing kids to pinball" they are already there (or were at least when the pinball bars were open pre-covid and hopefully come back here soon). My point is that I think the home market is ready for something a little more fresh.

I closed my post that way to make a joke but again, it lines up with my point. There is room for both! I don't understand the resistance. Companies are out there taking risks on garbage themes no one asked for like Octoberfest, food truck or themes of yesteryear that based on sales, no one really wanted anyway - I am looking at you, RAZA.

R+M was a fresh take and Spooky cashed in. Stern surely had every opportunity at that license but didn't jump at it based on their calculated risk strategy. Didn't hurt them, they still cash in almost every time but it REALLY helped Spooky.

Take risks, attempt to move the needle, that's all I'm saying. More of the same only goes so far.

Its not pointless to diversify. Its not pointless to test new waters. Its not pointless to take risks in business. Your point of view just comes across very status quo and shortsighted. The momentum in the market is creating the perfect storm for more of this risk taking and diversification all the while at the same time STILL pumping out more dad-rock and 80s cartoons or whatever.

What will history say was the success of GNR? Psst...heres a secret...its not because its GNR....its because JJP went all in (and frankly got lucky with the access to Slash and all the assets) on theme integration and blew our minds with new technology - mostly in the lighting department and created something unique and new.

If Stern isn't willing to invest that amount in their R+D and BOM costs then they can similarly achieve something unique and new by targeting a different type of license every now and again.

Are you sure about that? People went nuts for the soundtrack on Total Nuclear Annihilation. People love TRON soundtrack. That type of music can absolutely fit within the framework of a pinball machine very successfully. One of the biggest growing genre's of music today is loosely defined as Synthwave. If you are unfamiliar its essentially electronic music (sometimes instrumental, sometimes with vocals) that takes a great deal of inspiration from 80s Pop and new wave. Its modern and nostalgic at the same time. Some of that would fit just as well with pinball - its not too dissimilar from Daft Punk or the Weeknd or Scott Danesi - which we know can pass the pinball sound package sniff-test of all the dad rock guys who have TNA between their Metallica and Iron Maiden.

Pokémon? that might actually work. Halo/Call of Duty? no way. Manga? maybe, lots of fanboys middle aged now who love that stuff, not me but a lot are out there. Roblox? hell no. you are going way too young with that one. Lego? maybe...I put that in the same bucket as Hot Wheels...well known brand but does anyone care? meh.....Minecraft? same as roblox...nope. There is just nothing to it, no context, no story, nothing.

all great theme suggestions! We all know pinside loves to pick fights and get hung up on semantics so I appreciate the more thoughtful portions of the dialogue here. Again - not sure how I can be more clear - this isn't about the weeknd. That's just one example out of a million anyone of us could draw from. This is about how the market will continue to evolve and stay relevant.

What happens when all the "top tier" dad rock bands have been done? Do you really just want Stern and others to keep going down the list? I can't wait till I can get a Stryper or RATT pinball.

We already have danced that line....Of all the music pins of the last 10 years, none have been closer to "fringe" than Iron Maiden. I have never seen so many people fall in love with a music pin in spite of its theme. Some people love Iron Maiden the band, I get it. Most people just don't care at best or force themselves to tolerate the music because its a very well designed pin and looks great in a line up. The excellent design and code as well as the enthusiasm around Elwin propped that game up far more than the band and its music. Elwin himself said he wasn't really a fan of the band.

At some point Stern or someone else will hit a foul ball with one of these dad rock bands. Its only a matter of time. A backward looking approach is to just keep going back to that well till its dry. A forward looking approach is to be the first to start drilling a new well. There is a fundamental difference that has absolutely nothing to do with the weeknd or any other specific artist, that is irrelevant to this discussion.

that's true and its not true at the same time.

Yes old dudes buy pinballs...but have you looked around here lately? Or watched any of the streamers or listened to podcasts? Age 40 is the centerline, I am seeing waaay more younger people on location, streaming games, talking on podcasts, buying and selling and flipping games, etc. The average age is 100% going down.

If pinball companies only focus on the "senior" long time customer base they will have problems long term...anyone look at Harley Davidson lately? same story. Unstoppable back in the day...now? ooof.... they never correctly shifted their focus to the changing demographics.

What I am about to say is referencing pre-covid of course but if you walked into the locations around here with strong pinball collections in the last few years at any given time, the average age was probably 30. And that crosses from casual players on a blind tinder date to the regulars who are there 4 nights a week to the IFPA tournament players. The young people are already on the boat with us. Not all of them may be buying yet but I continue to be shocked by how many are...the only people claiming this is just still an old-mans game at the old guys.

If young people aren't buying games why does it appear that at least half of the people buying and selling games in my market my age or younger?

I totally disagree - particularly with Stern. Stern has a strong runway to understand demand for their products through their global distributor network who are on the hook for bulk purchases. If a title isn't well received, orders wont be strong and they simply just don't produce many. Aligning supply with demand is a cake-walk for Stern. They produce dozens of machines a day if they want to or can pivot VERY quickly to something else if they need to. Stern doesn't sit on inventory. And aside from the early start on Pro models, I don't believe they pre-build virtually anything that hasn't already been bought and paid for by distributors or their third party studio games like Primus, Heavy Metal, Supreme, etc. I think you aren't giving their executive team enough credit here. If one flop of a product for any consumer goods company (particularly luxury goods like this) sinks you, you have a terrible business model. Figures dont get released obviously but Gomez is on record saying they got killed on BKSOR. He said they likely wont touch original themes again for a long time or ever. Did it hurt their business? Nope...they have never been stronger...was it a temporary disruption? Probably but in the grand scheme of things was no sweat to just cut bait and move on.

Again, respectfully, I think you are off on that. Look at Beatles. Another Gomez quote floating out there - that license cost them 1 million dollars. Why do you think the sales model with distributors was exclusively package deals consisting of all three trim levels? They are smart, they lock in these distributors who end up holding the bag. Stern wouldn't take on a million dollar license agreement if they weren't fully confident they would at least break even and I believe that predicated the sales terms with distributors. NIB games don't sit around at Stern. They are excellent at transferring risk and at the same time, they dangle the carrot. We all remember what was said on the now-removed podcast where Nick sort of spilled the beans on distributor costs for these machines a couple years ago. Its probably changed slightly over time but still similar. The margin for the distributors incentivizes them to take on the risk and make these bulk orders. you win some you lose some. But the house (Stern) always wins in this case. Stern can absolutely afford to take a risk here or there without a tremendous amount of exposure. I suspect we will see it happen sooner than later.

Methos you seem too grumpy for a guy from Wisconsin. I’m born and raised there. Anyway, I’m not “bitching” at anyone or upset with anyone. just looking for more risk taking o behalf of theming and generating some conversation, some of which is more productive and interesting. Go Pack Go!

You are 100% correct. Literally every "barcade" style location in the US that has a legitimate focus on decent pinball (which most do) are loaded with 21-35 year old patrons, many of whom have been bit by the bug and are fantastic players actively participating in tournaments, Belles and Chimes, folks there 5 nights a week dropping quarters, all of it. Most of those may not be home buyers for games (yet) but they sure as hell drive business to the locations (again this is a pre and post COVID discussion so we can just avoid any of that nonsense in the inevitable replies here) but rich old white guys are only part of the demo these days...and a demo trending downward.

When location pinball fires back up in a meaningful way, we will be back to the unboxing parties list all over sterns website showing dozens of events planned largely attended by...you guessed it...21-35 year olds interested in the new machine. When it was Iron Maiden, they weren't showing up because it was Iron Maiden. They showed up because it was new, they may have heard about Keith Elwin (certainly all of the competitive players did) and its fun to play a brand new game. IF someone actually delivered a game with a theme this demo has even a remote interest in (Rick and Morty, Stranger Things and maybe the Marvel stuff are the closest examples in recent memory) it will drive business to these locations based on theme - unlike Iron Maiden. I cant speak for other areas but I can say around here I saw ALOT of the young players constantly wearing headphones while playing all the time - most loathe the themes and the accompanying sound packages. I don't understand that idea, I love the audio queues and want the full game experience, even if its a shit theme I don't care about but a lot of young players choose to drown it out.

Why not flip that around for a change on something that they may actually want and enjoy the full immersive experience all of the rich old white guys are currently soiling their shorts over due to GNR? Anyone watching that Stern tournament on facebook tonight? I bet most watchers aren't the rich old white dudes...its the younger crowd...Stern is making investments already to build that younger market with stuff like this...They are already onto this market shift clearly...its only a matter of time till they test the waters legitimately with a license...music or otherwise.