(Topic ID: 289562)

When will music licenses catch up with modern times?

By Dkjimbo

1 year ago


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  • Latest reply 1 year ago by PanzerFreak
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    There are 215 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 5.
    #1 1 year ago

    I love a good "dad rock" pin as much as anyone. Ive owned Metallica, Aerosmith, Iron Maiden and more than one Data East Guns n Roses and have a JJP GNR LE on order. I am 41 years old. Some of my "dream themes" include bands like Def Leppard and Rush.

    But I think there is room for more.

    The Weeknd.

    The music is off-the-charts popular and catchy as all hell even for a "middle aged dad" like most of the pinball buyers. The brand awareness is as high as any artist on earth. But heres where I think it could really shine. The style, the art, the lighting integration, etc could all be every much the concert experience as GNR is today. He is an artist that I think would want to dive into something like this and create an experience the way Slash did. I'd love to see the backglass be designed like a Xenon on total RGB steroids. A ring of lights around the perimeter and a depth to the backglass to create that effect. GNR approach to code would be perfect....do a bunch of stuff, qualify a song of your choosing and have your mind blown with an amazing light show and sound package during multiball.

    I think its past time for these pinball companies to move past Dad Rock...but I still want my Rush...

    46
    #2 1 year ago

    In about 2 months that weekend song is going to be a distant memory, much like “hey ya” Or “get lucky” and countless other ear worm pop hits before it, destined to be forgotten until it pops up in a Toyota commercial in 6 years.

    Weve been over this a million times; the people buying pinball machines want Tried and true classic rock in their homes, proven by the fact that they are all big sellers.

    Risking an entire production cycle on a modern pop theme makes sense only if you are trying to put your pinball company out of business, which is why people who insist we need a Rihanna Pinball machine are never those who depend on new pinball machine sales to put food on their table.

    Give it up; a modern pop theme isn’t gonna “bring kids into pinball” and it’s not worth the risk when the classic rock pins continue to print Money for pinball companies.

    If pinside ran Stern they’d be out of business in a month.

    #3 1 year ago
    Quoted from Dkjimbo:

    I think its past time for these pinball companies to move past Dad Rock...but I still want my Rush...

    You just got done ranting about dad rock themes but finish with wanting one of the most dad rock themes. That pretty much explains it.

    #4 1 year ago

    I don't think the weekend is a good choice.

    I do think a long running band that is still timely is an option. IE one that has been around for a decade plus, but is still releasing hits.

    #5 1 year ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    In about 2 months that weekend song is going to be a distant memory, much like “hey ya” Or “get lucky” and countless other ear worm pop hits before it, destined to be forgotten until it pops up in a Toyota commercial in 6 years.
    Weve been over this a million times; the people buying pinball machines want Tried and true classic rock in their homes, proven by the fact that they are all big sellers.
    Risking an entire production cycle on a modern pop theme makes sense only if you are trying to put your pinball company out of business, which is why people who insist we need a Rihanna Pinball machine are never those who depend on new pinball machine sales to put food on their table.
    Give it up; a modern pop theme isn’t gonna “bring kids into pinball” and it’s not worth the risk when the classic rock pins continue to print Money for pinball companies.
    If pinside ran Stern they’d be out of business in a month.

    You couldn't be more wrong about the Weeknd. Check the news - Longest record in history to stay on Billboard top 100? The dude is this generations Prince. period.

    But its not about him so don't get lost on that - its about the general theming of music pins. If Stern is willing to "risk a production cycle" on Black Knight SOR, they can most certainly take a risk on a slam dunk globally recognized more modern music theme.

    As a middle aged man, I really don't think I am an outlier of having interest in BOTH themes like Rush and Aerosmith as well as something more modern. Stern took a risk on BKSOR...I admire that. They need to do more of that. They can afford to, and with risk comes reward.

    Look at Spooky and R+M. Be honest, most of the "Dad rock fan boys" who bought R+M had never watched it before the pin was revealed and only then got interested and binged the show and realized that it actually is pretty great.

    My point has nothing to do with "bringing kids to pinball" they are already there (or were at least when the pinball bars were open pre-covid and hopefully come back here soon). My point is that I think the home market is ready for something a little more fresh.

    11
    #6 1 year ago

    So you think a weekend pin - In 2021 - is gonna sell better than a Rush pin?

    If he’s really “the new prince” then his game can get made in 2045. Until then it seems kind of pointless when classic rock themes always do well.

    #7 1 year ago
    Quoted from jawjaw:

    You just got done ranting about dad rock themes but finish with wanting one of the most dad rock themes. That pretty much explains it.

    I closed my post that way to make a joke but again, it lines up with my point. There is room for both! I don't understand the resistance. Companies are out there taking risks on garbage themes no one asked for like Octoberfest, food truck or themes of yesteryear that based on sales, no one really wanted anyway - I am looking at you, RAZA.

    R+M was a fresh take and Spooky cashed in. Stern surely had every opportunity at that license but didn't jump at it based on their calculated risk strategy. Didn't hurt them, they still cash in almost every time but it REALLY helped Spooky.

    Take risks, attempt to move the needle, that's all I'm saying. More of the same only goes so far.

    #8 1 year ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    So you think a weekend pin - In 2021 - is gonna sell better than a Rush pin?
    If he’s really “the new prince” then his game can get made in 2045. Until then it seems kind of pointless when classic rock themes always do well.

    Its not pointless to diversify. Its not pointless to test new waters. Its not pointless to take risks in business. Your point of view just comes across very status quo and shortsighted. The momentum in the market is creating the perfect storm for more of this risk taking and diversification all the while at the same time STILL pumping out more dad-rock and 80s cartoons or whatever.

    What will history say was the success of GNR? Psst...heres a secret...its not because its GNR....its because JJP went all in (and frankly got lucky with the access to Slash and all the assets) on theme integration and blew our minds with new technology - mostly in the lighting department and created something unique and new.

    If Stern isn't willing to invest that amount in their R+D and BOM costs then they can similarly achieve something unique and new by targeting a different type of license every now and again.

    31
    #9 1 year ago

    You sound like a dynamic young executive with a mastery of buzzwords and I encourage you to start your own pinball company and move the needle with Cardi B pinball machines that nobody will buy.

    You gotta take risks! Why just keep taking in piles of cash with can’t miss classic rock themes?

    Also rick and morty for some reason.

    #10 1 year ago

    I think the issue is that Pop music in general just doesn’t fit well with Pinball.

    I can’t provide a detailed explanation as to why this is, but it just doesn’t FEEL right. Somehow the rhythms, phrasing, and lyrical themes of the typical Pop tune just don’t quite gel with the action in a pinball game.

    All I know is that games like ACDC, MET, KISS, and IM almost instantly lock me into a groove of mechanical action, lights, sounds, and music that all fits together and sort of gives the same thrill a musician experiences when playing a perfect riff “in the pocket”, whereas the Pop games I have played like Elvis and Beatles just don’t generate that level of immersion.

    Also, the radical changes in the music industry since the days of the dinosaur bands shouldn’t be overlooked. For numerous reasons beyond the scope of this thread, it’s almost impossible for a modern act of any genre to establish the kind of intergenerational staying power that becomes enough of a “phenomenon” to influence the wider popular consciousness to a degree that sustains long-term marketing and merchandising (including pinball) opportunities.

    There are probably demographic factors in play as well, another topic too complex to unpack here. When I was in school in the 80s, the kids that tended to hang out in pinball-rich venues like bowling alleys, arcades, and pool halls tended to be more in the rocker/metalhead/stoner camp than Pop fans. (Just an anecdotal observation by one guy, but looking back it does seem as if it was that way.)

    10
    #11 1 year ago
    Quoted from Dkjimbo:

    You couldn't be more wrong about the Weeknd. Check the news - Longest record in history to stay on Billboard top 100? The dude is this generations Prince. period.

    How about they just make a Prince machine. I'd buy one of those! Prince's Superbowl halftime show was the greatest ever.

    #12 1 year ago

    You're going to give Crazy Levi a stress attack .

    #13 1 year ago
    Quoted from Thermionic:

    I think the issue is that Pop music in general just doesn’t fit well with Pinball.
    I can’t provide a detailed explanation as to why this is, but it just doesn’t FEEL right. Somehow the rhythms, phrasing, and lyrical themes of the typical Pop tune just don’t quite gel with the action in a pinball game.

    Are you sure about that? People went nuts for the soundtrack on Total Nuclear Annihilation. People love TRON soundtrack. That type of music can absolutely fit within the framework of a pinball machine very successfully. One of the biggest growing genre's of music today is loosely defined as Synthwave. If you are unfamiliar its essentially electronic music (sometimes instrumental, sometimes with vocals) that takes a great deal of inspiration from 80s Pop and new wave. Its modern and nostalgic at the same time. Some of that would fit just as well with pinball - its not too dissimilar from Daft Punk or the Weeknd or Scott Danesi - which we know can pass the pinball sound package sniff-test of all the dad rock guys who have TNA between their Metallica and Iron Maiden.

    #14 1 year ago

    Daft punk
    The Weeknd
    Foo fighters (current and relevant rock and roll)
    I’m in.

    #15 1 year ago

    Multimorphic’s platform has a development kit available. Put your team together and prove to the world you’re right.

    -1
    #16 1 year ago

    The most obnoxious fucking thing about every pinball tournament over the last 3 years has been a TNA in the bank at top volume pumping that never ending thumping sound track for three days.

    Like, enough already. Can we please start keeping that game to normal fucking volumes?

    12
    #17 1 year ago
    Quoted from Dkjimbo:

    You couldn't be more wrong about the Weeknd. Check the news - Longest record in history to stay on Billboard top 100? The dude is this generations Prince. period.
    But its not about him so don't get lost on that - its about the general theming of music pins. If Stern is willing to "risk a production cycle" on Black Knight SOR, they can most certainly take a risk on a slam dunk globally recognized more modern music theme.
    As a middle aged man, I really don't think I am an outlier of having interest in BOTH themes like Rush and Aerosmith as well as something more modern. Stern took a risk on BKSOR...I admire that. They need to do more of that. They can afford to, and with risk comes reward.
    Look at Spooky and R+M. Be honest, most of the "Dad rock fan boys" who bought R+M had never watched it before the pin was revealed and only then got interested and binged the show and realized that it actually is pretty great.
    My point has nothing to do with "bringing kids to pinball" they are already there (or were at least when the pinball bars were open pre-covid and hopefully come back here soon). My point is that I think the home market is ready for something a little more fresh.

    I stopped reading after you posted, "this generations Prince". If that is true, then things have become so watered down that the Smiley Face emoji is this generation's Mona Lisa!

    #18 1 year ago

    Stairway to heaven just celebrated 50 yrs old. Dad rock rules!!

    #19 1 year ago
    theweeknd-1-1612561263 (resized).jpg
    #20 1 year ago

    It's not really what fits or doesn't work. It's about the risk level and knowing your market. Why would you take a huge risk developing a product aimed at a market that is not your main demographic? How many people are going to drop $9000+ for a Weeknd LE pin sight unseen? Answer nobody.

    24
    #21 1 year ago
    Quoted from robotron911:

    I stopped reading after you posted, "this generations Prince". If that is true, then things have become so watered down that the Smiley Face emoji is this generation's Mona Lisa!

    Prince played 27 different instruments, Weeknd plays the piano, and has been around for about a week.

    #22 1 year ago

    Pinball themes are targeted at the people actually buying games. Older generations have way more disposable income, and are far more likely to drop $6k+ on a toy.

    I'm 30 and the dad rock themes do next to nothing for me, but I also realize a Weeknd pin would not sell well at all. My age group largely doesn't have the kind of disposable income to drop on pinball.

    -1
    #23 1 year ago
    Quoted from atrainn:

    I also realize a Weeknd pin would not sell well at all.

    This is right up American Pinball's alley.

    #24 1 year ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    The most obnoxious fucking thing about every pinball tournament over the last 3 years has been a TNA in the bank at top volume pumping that never ending thumping sound track for three days.
    Like, enough already. Can we please start keeping that game to normal fucking volumes?

    We get it, you're old. Go sit in your rocker and tell kids to get off your lawn.

    12
    #25 1 year ago

    The Weeknd is fuckin shit. Modern music basically stinks. Sorry but way to many classic bands still to go before then try anything new and thank sweet innocent baby Jesus for that.
    Slayer
    Motorhead
    Sabbath
    The Priest
    Deep Purple

    #26 1 year ago

    Just buy a pin you love, and play your favorite music in the background. Way easier, right?

    If I had a dollar for every "Why don't they make Millennial Pop Artist pinball instead of your old dad rock stuff?", I could afford a NIB JJP CE.

    If I had a dollar for every "Why do flippers have to ruin the hobby?", I could afford a NIB JJP CE.

    If I had a dollar for every "Are we in a pinball pricing bubble", I could afford a NIB JJP CE.

    If I had a dollar for every "my band is better than yours and I question your sexuality", I could afford a NIB JJP CE.

    Second thought, scratch that. Combined I still couldn't afford a JJP CE.

    slash (resized).jpg
    #27 1 year ago
    Quoted from rolandthoms:

    Foo fighters (current and relevant rock and roll)

    current and relevant sure but not very good.

    #28 1 year ago

    The answer is when new music gets good

    #29 1 year ago
    Quoted from dung:

    We get it, you're old. Go sit in your rocker and tell kids to get off your lawn.

    Blasting TNA at obnoxious volume does not make you young nor hip. I don’t think most TNA owners understand that.

    #30 1 year ago
    Quoted from LordHumungus:

    The Weeknd is fuckin shit. Modern music basically stinks. Sorry but way to many classic bands still to go before then try anything new and thank sweet innocent baby Jesus for that.
    Slayer
    Motorhead
    Sabbath
    The Priest
    Deep Purple

    Exactly. To repeat a tired point “I’d buy a Motörhead, sabbath or priest pin, LE, sight unseen.”

    Who the fuck is gonna say that about a weekend or Bunny pin?

    Nobody. On earth. The consumer base simply doesn’t mix and never will.

    #31 1 year ago

    Can hardly wait for this game! Diaper head multiball...

    What-happened-to-The-Weeknds-face-at-Super-Bowl-2021-990x660 (resized).jpg
    #32 1 year ago

    Hoping and praying for a Taylor Swift pin, a “wet ass pussy" pin, and {disposable artist 1} featuring {disposable artist 2 pin}.

    Anything musically released prior to 1995 is crap, simply because it isn't new, it got moldy, and only old people were around then

    Yes, I am being sarcastic......

    #33 1 year ago

    Rick Beato does this fantastic "what makes this song great" series, but here he analyzes why boomers hate pop music. It's interesting as hell.

    #34 1 year ago

    Pinball is a pretty expensive and complicated toy to bring to reality (at least $1Mill). The "Dad Rock" themes are targeted at customers that have the deeper pockets $$$. The pinball companies left today probably do some sort of market research on what would sell before investing in a theme. Logically, something "classic" is going to outsell the "new" when it comes to music and its less riskier.

    #35 1 year ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    The most obnoxious fucking thing about every pinball tournament over the last 3 years has been a TNA in the bank at top volume pumping that never ending thumping sound track for three days.
    Like, enough already. Can we please start keeping that game to normal fucking volumes?

    I have no idea how they get that much volume out of that amp. Trying to use one in a homebrew and it SUCKS.

    #36 1 year ago

    Wouldn't Pokemon, Halo, Call of Duty, Manga, Roblox, Lego or Minecraft make for better themes, if you are reaching for younger audiences , versus the Weeknd?

    #37 1 year ago
    Quoted from Dkjimbo:

    Its not pointless to diversify. Its not pointless to test new waters. Its not pointless to take risks in business. Your point of view just comes across very status quo and shortsighted. The momentum in the market is creating the perfect storm for more of this risk taking and diversification all the while at the same time STILL pumping out more dad-rock and 80s cartoons or whatever.
    What will history say was the success of GNR? Psst...heres a secret...its not because its GNR....its because JJP went all in (and frankly got lucky with the access to Slash and all the assets) on theme integration and blew our minds with new technology - mostly in the lighting department and created something unique and new.
    If Stern isn't willing to invest that amount in their R+D and BOM costs then they can similarly achieve something unique and new by targeting a different type of license every now and again.

    Why don't you start up a pinball company and produce those hip and new artists? Good luck.

    #38 1 year ago
    Quoted from Flowst:

    Wouldn't Pokemon, Halo, Call of Duty, Manga, Roblox, Lego or Minecraft make for better themes, if you are reaching for younger audiences , versus the Weeknd?

    No because The Weekend is the new prince.

    #39 1 year ago
    Quoted from Flowst:

    Wouldn't Pokemon, Halo, Call of Duty, Manga, Roblox, Lego or Minecraft make for better themes, if you are reaching for younger audiences , versus the Weeknd?

    Pokémon? that might actually work. Halo/Call of Duty? no way. Manga? maybe, lots of fanboys middle aged now who love that stuff, not me but a lot are out there. Roblox? hell no. you are going way too young with that one. Lego? maybe...I put that in the same bucket as Hot Wheels...well known brand but does anyone care? meh.....Minecraft? same as roblox...nope. There is just nothing to it, no context, no story, nothing.

    #40 1 year ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    No because The Weekend is the new prince.

    Not even close

    #41 1 year ago

    Deadpool’s soundtrack works well with pinball .I agree how about some 2 live crew .

    #42 1 year ago

    The Weeknd ruined every commercial break during the NFL postseason, why in the blue hell would anyone want to see them in pinball form?

    Snoop Dog is clearly the next music pin.

    #43 1 year ago

    you are preaching to the wrong age demo on gender on here . It's pointless. I am with you though. i know plenty of people in their 20's who have money to buy pins and have their own collections. also, us operators also appreciate titles geared towards people age 12 to 38 (those who spend most on location) pinball isn't just for guys over 50. I had 4 games by the time i was 15 that i bought myself. Some people do actually work young.
    GOOD NEWS THOUGH.
    from what i gather, One of the current players is making a hip hop based pin soon. Finally---
    so i guess we shall see what happens.

    #44 1 year ago
    Quoted from Dkjimbo:

    The dude is this generations Prince. period.

    I’m sorry, but no.
    You need to do a deep dive on Prince.

    #45 1 year ago
    Quoted from silver_spinner:

    you are preaching to the wrong age demo on gender on here . It's pointless. I am with you though. i know plenty of people in their 20's who have money to buy pins and have their own collections. also, us operators also appreciate titles geared towards people age 12 to 38 (those who spend most on location) pinball isn't just for guys over 50. I had 4 games by the time i was 15 that i bought myself. Some people do actually work young.
    GOOD NEWS THOUGH.
    from what i gather, One of the current players is making a hip hop based pin soon. Finally---
    so i guess we shall see what happens.

    Can’t wait!

    My guess is it will be the beastie boys, snoop, or someone else who has been around for decades. Thus - more or less - proving our point. It’s just dad rock you can bob your head to that is or will soon be in the rock n roll hall of fame with the rest of the pinball themes.

    #46 1 year ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    ...or will soon be in the rock n roll hall of fame with the rest of the pinball themes.

    NWA; I'll take it.

    #47 1 year ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    NWA; I'll take it.

    Fuck yeah!

    Honestly that dumb explicit lyrics tag would look awesome on a translite.

    #48 1 year ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    NWA; I'll take it.

    I could get behind that one.

    #49 1 year ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    NWA; I'll take it.

    Dopeman mode, hit the captive ball and slang another hit for huge points.

    #50 1 year ago

    all great theme suggestions! We all know pinside loves to pick fights and get hung up on semantics so I appreciate the more thoughtful portions of the dialogue here. Again - not sure how I can be more clear - this isn't about the weeknd. That's just one example out of a million anyone of us could draw from. This is about how the market will continue to evolve and stay relevant.

    What happens when all the "top tier" dad rock bands have been done? Do you really just want Stern and others to keep going down the list? I can't wait till I can get a Stryper or RATT pinball.

    We already have danced that line....Of all the music pins of the last 10 years, none have been closer to "fringe" than Iron Maiden. I have never seen so many people fall in love with a music pin in spite of its theme. Some people love Iron Maiden the band, I get it. Most people just don't care at best or force themselves to tolerate the music because its a very well designed pin and looks great in a line up. The excellent design and code as well as the enthusiasm around Elwin propped that game up far more than the band and its music. Elwin himself said he wasn't really a fan of the band.

    At some point Stern or someone else will hit a foul ball with one of these dad rock bands. Its only a matter of time. A backward looking approach is to just keep going back to that well till its dry. A forward looking approach is to be the first to start drilling a new well. There is a fundamental difference that has absolutely nothing to do with the weeknd or any other specific artist, that is irrelevant to this discussion.

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