(Topic ID: 85729)

When is a pinball too bright? or is there such a thing?

By Scrilly

10 years ago


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  • 32 posts
  • 25 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by awarner
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    #1 10 years ago

    Recently, I've done a complete shop on my bttf and added superbright leds, some EL wire mods, and an under cab strip tied to the flashers. I like the flashing and bright colors, but I've recently had some friends come by and state the lights are too bright for them to follow the Gameplay and the constant flashing throws them off. Are they just complainers or is there such a thing as too bright?

    #2 10 years ago

    Sounds like your LEDs are strobing. You may not be very sensitive to it but your friends are. LED's are instant on/instant off so they can "strobe" when incandescent bulbs would look like a constant light because of the filament glowing in between voltage being sent to the bulb.

    A few ways to deal with it, do a search on here for strobing.

    #3 10 years ago

    Most go way overboard on insert light brightness and don't put in GI lights with any light spread. My approach is a bit different. Mix of GI that spreads light onto the playfield instead of just illuminating the plastics above, and Superbrights are generally way too bright for inserts:

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    #4 10 years ago

    I played lots of games where the owner put WAY too bright LEDs in the inserts and basically ruined the game.

    I've also had clients that wanted me to remove all the LEDs from games they just bought because they are blinded from the over bright LEDs.

    It's easy for beginners to go overboard.

    #5 10 years ago

    Any game in which the inserts are brighter than the general illumination is what I consider "too bright". Like WOZ. Most people would be fine with WOZ if the GI was as good or better then the inserts, but as it stands the GI is laughably weak compared to the blinding inserts.

    #6 10 years ago

    Sorry but, its not them its you too much LED ruins things.
    My guideline is that if you can see the actual lamp it needs to be toned right down and preferably frosted. Ive bought machines where the previous owner though it was perfect but I could barely see the ball in play.
    Its personal taste i suppose but i really think some people go way overboard with the super dooper mega bright led madness.

    #7 10 years ago

    For the GI any were the LED can be seen in clear eye sight I use a frosted LED. Cointaker is great. But there 44/47 super bright SMD sit almost flush with play field. And a lot of times even under some plastics will catch your eye. You need a LED that sits higher up on playfield. http://www.cometpinball.com/product-p/opmax.htm Kind of trail and error but. I will say that I do prefer the insert to be bright. In less it is totally clear. Like LOTR then I use some thing softer. Like http://www.pinballcenter.eu/catalog/t10-noflix-plus-turquoise-superflux-p-445.html?language=english

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    #8 10 years ago

    When the lights are too bright to follow the Gameplay and the constant flashing throws you off. It is all subjective.
    I played a Mario which had annoyingly bright flashers. It may not have been an issue in a brightly lit room or if the playfield wasn't so dark but the sudden contrast was too much.
    My friend commented my Shadow was too bright. It doesn't bother me. But that is the only game I have with LEDs in the dome flashers because it came with them. It is also a dark game.
    Those Pinbits lightning bolt flashers have a ton of LEDs on them but they are not as noticable because the game is well lit. You have to find the balance. There is no 100% solution.

    #9 10 years ago

    Spot location of an LED here and there is no big deal.

    However, an LED in every socket, including the backglass, is just overkill and fugly.

    Call me old school....

    #10 10 years ago
    Quoted from Magic_Mike:

    Call me old school....

    Old school . But I do agree that not every light socket has to be LED. They just do not work well in some areas in some titles. Like the Shooter lane on LOTR. (9) 44/47 sockets that have dimming effect almost all the time. LED's flicker something awful . But for the most part LED are great. Get that heat away from my 20 year old insert.

    #11 10 years ago

    I have frosted leds through most of the GI and some brighter inserts. That does make sense having the bright inserts overwhelm the eye rather than accent the playfield. I replaced my dome flashers with incandescent bulbs also, because for the lighting they do there is not much difference between the Incan or the LED (except in retina burn). Mess with little things first to see if I can tweak it to perfection.

    Quoted from wiredoug:

    Sorry but, its not them its you

    The tough reality is... I kinda knew that deep down inside

    #12 10 years ago
    Quoted from Scrilly:

    The tough reality is... I kinda knew that deep down inside

    No It is not. I wood have to see photo. Probably looks awesome. Some people like my Tech get woozy playing LED Pin's.

    #13 10 years ago

    you need sunglasses to play my WPT.

    #14 10 years ago
    Quoted from yoshootme:

    you need sunglasses to play my WPT.

    That's probably still acceptable. If you ever have to put on sunscreen, you've gone too far

    #15 10 years ago

    Most of the LED crazy games I can deal with, but some I fear will put me into a seizure. Old school here too. I have yet to see a LED that mimics the warm glow of an incandescent. I think they have a place and a purpose, maybe even in some of my games, but as in all things, moderation.

    And yes, some of them are waaaaaay too bright!

    #16 10 years ago

    I put 9-led 89 light bulbs in the center cluster of an F-14 Tomcat, and when they went off I went blind. I shut the machine off, and reinstalled 89 incandescent bulbs back in it immediately. I knew I went toooo far!!!

    #17 10 years ago
    Quoted from PinballOrphanage:

    I put 9-led 89 light bulbs in the center cluster of an F-14 Tomcat, and when they went off I went blind. I shut the machine off, and reinstalled 89 incandescent bulbs back in it immediately. I knew I went toooo far!!!

    I had the same issue, and did the same exact thing. The 9-led are way to bright. Even though I did enjoy watching others play it that way for the first time... It was like watching them seeing shock video. lol

    #18 10 years ago

    Yes. Lightning should complement not overwhelm.

    #19 10 years ago
    Quoted from yoshootme:

    you need sunglasses to play my WPT.

    Since the pros wear sunglasses playing regular poker this makes sense...

    #20 10 years ago

    I called Cointakers & Chris & Melissa were great! I told them I wanted to LED a Funhouse but didn't want to be blinded but wanted a fresh "brighter" look & feel. Chris suggested mostly everything to be frosted. I REALLY like it. Is it worth $200? Sure!!

    #21 10 years ago
    Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

    And yes, some of them are waaaaaay too bright!

    Most.

    I fear most LED fanatics are to the point where they are drawing MORE power with the high power LEDs they use versus the incandescent bulbs

    #22 10 years ago
    Quoted from nerbflong:

    Most.
    I fear most LED fanatics are to the point where they are drawing MORE power with the high power LEDs they use versus the incandescent bulbs

    That is true. I'm using some 4+1 LEDs for playfield GI in my STTNG above and that is a potential issue. I've pulled a few incandescents without replacing, so that should help. I'm only using about half of my backbox sockets.

    #23 10 years ago

    The LED OCD is a must for those that like to use bright LEDs on their games. Completely fixes the "it's too bright" issue that can arise.

    I personally prefer Cointaker's Super Brights for inserts, and lower the brightness with the OCD board.

    #24 10 years ago

    I think I need to tone it down a little. Almost blinding while in multiball

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    #25 10 years ago
    Quoted from Magic_Mike:

    Spot location of an LED here and there is no big deal.
    However, an LED in every socket, including the backglass, is just overkill and fugly.
    Call me old school....

    This is your next Holy Grail pinball

    #26 10 years ago
    Quoted from SealClubber:

    I played a Mario which had annoyingly bright flashers. It may not have been an issue in a brightly lit room or if the playfield wasn't so dark but the sudden contrast was too much.

    Was it at TPF last year? I played one there that fits that description. I think I may still be seeing spots.

    #27 10 years ago
    Quoted from wiredoug:

    Sorry but, its not them its you too much LED ruins things.
    My guideline is that if you can see the actual lamp it needs to be toned right down and preferably frosted. Ive bought machines where the previous owner though it was perfect but I could barely see the ball in play.
    Its personal taste i suppose but i really think some people go way overboard with the super dooper mega bright led madness.

    Agreed. Find a good frosted build or sand an existing LED if necessary so you don't blind yourself.
    LEDs might be bright but don't go overboard.

    #28 10 years ago
    Quoted from RobKnapp:

    This is your next Holy Grail pinball

    Damn, that's hard to watch!

    I can just imagine what it's like in person.

    #29 10 years ago

    Indeed, I often receive emails, "I want only the brightest bulbs you have!"

    I see a great deal of felony LED Abuse....I am not sure how people can play this way...it could be my old eyes.....

    However, the biggest problem is also flasher overkill. To me, any flashers on the lower playfield, should be no more then a 5 SMD...you can go more, with ones in the back. A 5 Tower, appears about 30% brighter then an incandescent,
    When people put 8 and above really close, most people will have a few seconds of blindness, and lose the ball.
    Some young eyes, are not as affected...

    Using the right Flasher is important..

    #30 10 years ago

    There was an article on the NYTimes a while ago about how aging eyes let in less light, explaining why some people might find putting really bright lights in their games to be good. Here are some snippets :

    "How well do you see at night? If you're over 50, probably not as well as you think, no matter how many carrots you eat. The typical 50-year-old driver needs twice as much light to see as well after dark as a 30-year-old."

    "In dim light or darkness, eyes adapt by widening the pupils to let in as much light as possible. The iris (the colored part of the eye surrounding the pupil) contains tiny muscles that control the size of the pupil. As you get older, these muscles (like most in the body) weaken and do not respond as well to the need to let in more light. The result is a small pupil when you try to see in poor light. It's as if your eyes were still young but you were wearing sunglasses at night."

    Seems to explain why my dad hates driving at night! The good news is that for the most part, you can always dial a machine in to your comfort level by swapping in whatever you need to make it work for you. Maybe if Harvard / South Wales Universities can get their age-reversal techniques approved for human use (lab mice trials completed!) we'll all have the eyes of a teenager.

    #31 10 years ago

    I found that playing WOZ in a darkened room, the playfield inserts are too bright and the GI is too dim and it makes the ball hard to see.

    #32 10 years ago

    I really dislike LEDs for this reason. I think people go way overboard when they do them and change the feel of the game. They also don't come up and go down like incandescent bulbs so they loose the lighting effects that the designers put in. I think LEDs can be used effectively in certain instances (like GI), but I really think it can detract from a game. I've also seen it have the opposite effect. I've seen darker colors like blues and purples give a darker effect and make it harder to see the ball. I bought some for my BOP project but so far, I've only got them in the pops.

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