You sure did. AFTER I made that comment, sure others will as well but at the time I made the comment it was true.

Seriously, can you just let it go? Everyone in here isn't out to get you, just stop nit-picking at everyone and needing to have the last word.

You made your point, people agree or don't, but you don't need to personally respond to everyone that didn't agree. That's what PMs are for.

I think it is just pinflation going on all around-look at EM pricing lately-ridiculous(some have doubled and tripled in value). I was shocked to see certain titles jump in pricing within a short time period. Prime examples are, TFTC, BSD, JD, and the big winner-TX Sector. -Talk about overpriced because of price pumpers. It is fortunate that STTNG is in high supply and the prices should stay relatively low for the near future.

Not in the market for a TX-Sector, but from what I've followed of it, a few owners have thrown out what they believe to be an absurd price and it is scooped up by one buyer along with a few other interested PM's not far behind it. That's low supply/high demand, not price-pumping.

Well I watched an $800 game turn into a $3000 game overnight with more and more people pumping it up quickly. It was not on many people's radars at the time. Just because it is rare does not necessarily justify its pricing. I wanted one before the hype started-just because I liked the music and sounds. When it hit over $1500-I said to myself well the sounds are cool-but not that cool...and the hype train rolled on.

actually you're the one following me around to like 5 different threads downvoting even the most innocuous posts of mine, even showing up in the STTNG Club thread just to bring your silly beef with me into there. i have only downvoted posts of yours when i disagreed with the content of them, or when you take weird passive aggressive shots at me personally. that's it. i don't think i've directed a post at you in over a week. i don't care about you, i don't have a grudge against you. you don't matter to me. if you say something i disagree with, you get a thumbs down, same as everyone else. i'm sorry it hurt your feelings so much that you've spent the last week obsessing over it, but i'm the type of person who would rather thumbs down and move on instead of initiating a childish back and forth that can wind up dominating and ruining a thread. it's been over a week now and you're still making feeble attempts to call me out on every thread i post in just because you are mad i downvoted a comment you made.

i'm only responding now because i want you to know i will continue to downvote any post i see whose content i disagree with, yours or anyone else's. it's not personal, and never was. i consider the matter closed and i won't be responding to you again.

i apologize for the thread derail, folks.

It's all relative. As NIB pins go up in price, older pins can inch up and look like "deals" respectively...especially when An older pin like STTNG is superior to what you can get new for the same price or thousands more. It's the same psychology that made MMr look like a "deal" at $8k.

Ok, so the demand became more than your desire to own it. The fact is that they did sell--whether or not the price is absurd is just an opinion--no seller is obligated to sell things at some imaginary line of reasonable pricing. Stuff is worth what people are willing to pay. If you think about it, it's absurd people pay thousands of dollars for a wooden box with a few dozen light bulbs in it and try to move a ball around a fixed piece of wood for some arbitrary score.

Like older Sterns, Stargazer and Quicksilver some of these pins that were never really looked at finally caught on for the great gameplay they provide, sorry but TX isn't a good example, low low numbers and high demand, most guys don't want to sell their TX's, SG's etc so it takes money to make them part with it, STTNG while great does not share that rarity factor and for me anyway after owning it 3 times I do love the pin but it gets boring fast, I owned a StarGazer for about 6 months and I was constantly hounded for a sale, I ended up taking more than 2 times what I paid and the only reason I took that was to fund a dream theme, Alien.

Tz and rs have around the same or more features also.. prices dont base off features but demand of a game (i mean look at stern pins lol) . They made a good many sttng and that along with its so so demand is why it stays a 3500-4500 pin just like rs and many other pins.

hum.. considering I have never traded or sold a game... might want to re-think the motives, huh?
STNG would be the first game I bought... and likely the last to leave.
There is a reason it's a $5k game.

This is a discussion forum.

You don't have to be selling a game to have a vested interest in its value. Some people don't get this for some reason. 5k? Why not 6k?

pinkink is taking a lot of heat in this thread and I can't figure out why. Maybe I missed it, but what he's saying isn't totally off the mark - owners of games (or anything) always feel what they have is worth more than non-owners, it's human nature, nothing to either deny or be embarrassed of.

I don't really know the price point on a STTNG these days (and I'm not in the market for one) but my buddy had a really clean game with a color DMD he sold in 2014 for $3,250 (or something like that) - two years ago sure, and wasn't CQ sure, but I'm surprised at the numbers people are asking for recently on this title.

Think the market archives showing a single ST:TNG selling for around $5500 have anything to do with it?

Last half dozen I've seen have went for around 4k avg. Pinkink is taking heat because he is presenting his opinion in a somewhat troll-like fashion. Did you read the whole thread?

No doubt about it. That said, single sales are more outliers than directly indicative of the market. There's a super nice STTNG sitting at $5,100.

I remember back in 2011 there was an obvious shill sale of an AFM on EBay and over the course of the next month the asking price of AFMs went up about $2,000 based on the shill sale. I don't know how many sold at the inflated asking prices, I'm just making an observation and drawing a comparison.

Yea, sounds about right to me.

Yes, I read it all. I'm not viewing him so much as a troll but more of a slightly over zealous/passionate advocate that uses a lot of adjectives in his posting style. (Just my personal opinion by the way, I openly admit I'm not always right with how I read the intent of posts.)

I paid 4k for mine back in 2012. The color DMD was announced the week after I bought it. It was/is in great condition and has been going strong (with some minor tweaks/fixes) for over four (nearly five) years now. No regrets at all with what I paid.

STTNG is and has been an "A list" title for as long as I can remember. I put it and IJ above MM, TZ, MB, RFM, TAF and CV. And I really like those games. STTNG goes for less than them becasue of general availability and a narrower theme fan base.

This is a title that is affected by LOCATION. Here in Michigan it tends to ride a little higher (as do most used pins) than most other areas....except for maybe California.

It was a 4k pin in great condition all day long back in 2012 here and basically has not moved much since then.....maybe 4500-5k now but condition is key.

We can have differing opinions without one of us being a "troll". You haven't been exactly polite to me, but I'm not upset or going to call you names.

Lol your concept of time is as bad as your concept of value. 2 days, a week same thing, sure. I've only down voted you're post I disagree with. Literally the only 2 you haven't downed were the ones I called you out on to go for it. So by your logic you must have agreed with those posts since you didn't down vote then.
Either way sttng isn't a 5k game- typically.

It isn't. Just cuz people try asking that doesn't mean it happens. I would never pay close to 5k for one. hell, even at 2500 i'd be hard pressed to buy one, because I don't think I could get over $3500 for it.

I remember that very, very ,very well. Irritates me that that one auction affected the market for AFM pretty much to this very day.

First off, I promise I'm not quoting you a couple times just to argue . I feel very strongly about this.

I am in the minority on this viewpoint. With my AFM, I know there SAF is not $8000 of game there. I know there's $8000 of game AND fun, and I'd say realistically on AFM there's maybe at most $5000ish worth of game. It is NOT deserving of that level of a price, and even though I own one, and I paid stupid insane money to get my 20 year childhood dream theme, I will go against the grain on the AFM club on that one. No way will I ever try to sell my AFM for $8000. That is a dis-service to this community and hobby.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not listing it for $2000 or something stupid, but if anyone thinks I'll own the game for years and try to get MORE than what I paid for with putting wear and tear on the game, someone's smoking a fat-ass joint....

I understand everyone wants to make money - IN A BUSINESS. This is a HOBBY. We are not SUPPOSED to make money in a hobby. I don't understand why this community - especially Pinside - has all of a sudden decided two things:

1. Mods add value to a game (ColorDMD, PinSound, and a select few others might - train tracks on a ramp on ACDC or a belt buckle on Metallica DO NOT)

2. It's ok to try to get nearly distributor level prices off your fellow collector.

Total BFS in my opinion, and it's very disheartening to see this community starting that train of thought, and I am looking straight at NIB pricing as the main catalyst, but I also believe we need to stop gouging each other.

That is not what makes this hobby great. Compassion and greed are two very, very different things.

I've owned an STTNG for years and think it is a fantastic game and has a much different feel than Stern Star Trek, despite the similar playfield layout.

The appeal of any game is of course a matter of opinion and everyone is entitled to their own. When considering price, however, it will tend to follow supply and demand just like anything else. While certainly Pinside and IPDB ratings are not perfect, they are at least a rough indicator of how popular a game is. STTNG has been about #3 or so on IPDB for years. It's currently #14 on Pinside and my guess is it has been in that range for a long time. Look at the other games in the top 10 on IPDB or top 20 on Pinside. Most are much more expensive than STTNG. If you like theme, STTNG is a great bang for the buck, even in the $3500 to $5000 range.

Just my 2 cents...

Stern would charge 12k for a game with all the features of STTNG today.

I sold one two years ago for 6800 pimped out. I missed it bought one sold a year ago shopped stock with color dmd fire sale 4800.
To me its a great value when comparing it to modern games and 5k isnt bad (condition is king).

I think this is foolish, lots of features doesn't make a great pin and IM cost the same as SM, quite a difference in features but equally fun. Stern has made very full featured games and more open style games but the prices are the same, JJP too, look at WOZ and TH.

exactly my point...what Stern Pro is a wide body with all the features of STTNG? None.

Down vote all you want you crazy pinheads...facts is facts but we are in fact free world these days I guess!

RS is NOT a 4500 game. They seem to sit for months if they are priced even at 3k around here.

Exactly, I overpaid for one of my machines, I'll never get that money back out of it but I don't care it was my grail and it's condition and location made me willing too pay extra for it. I've got games that people here are worth 1000, or in at least one case 2500, more than I say they are worth and I've argued down the value of the titles. Hell people claimed I must have sold mine and been pissed I can't get back in at the numbers I claim it's worth so I put up a pic of the game still in my house. Buying a game at market prices, playing it (adding wear) and putting in leds, and some toys does not add value. Games come with lights changing them to leds is at best a small markup on the cost, 10-20 bucks. It don't matter how much you paid for the bulbs. Color dmd will add most of it's price, but your still selling a used display, they do age. They are easy installs and readily available. For full price just get a new one. A new ramp ($100) over a broken ramp, isn't 100 added to the price. You should have paid less for the game with the broken ramp. The way to make money in this is to get good prices for the games then fix them, then sell them at market prices for excellent condition examples of the title.

Didnt say it was or didn't mean to say it was but its been selling for 3-3500 pretty easy now a days..... was stating its just as loaded as sttng and almost tz for that matter. How much is in a pin has nothing to do with price as indicated by 3k rs. Wpc 95 pins don't have nearly as much as wpc 89 pins but they are more popular , have better rules, cost much more and are just in general more fun to play in most cases which is why they are some the most sought after pins...

I bought a nice completely cleaned and shopped sttng a couple years ago for around $3000. The guy that shopped it had it playing 100%. No weird opto issues that you sometimes hear about with this title. Playfield was in really nice shape. It did have a scrape or two on the cab. I added the cointaker LED kit which really brought the pin to life. Instead of the warm incandescent look it gave it a nice stark bright spacey feel. I'm not a huge Star Trek fan, so I played it for a year and sold it for around $3250. It was a good challenging pin. Prices have gone up since then but they haven't hit the $5000 mark. If the op drops the price to $4750 it will get sold.

one sold recently here that was super nice inside and out for 2800 and it didn't fly off the shelf at that price.

I actually just found a pic. It didn't have all of the purple LEDs that people like to put in their STTNGs. Makes me kinda miss it. But not enough to pay 5K for another one if that's the goin rate.

IMG_1594 (resized).PNG

Sttng demands too much money. Fun layout, great theme, bad rules. Too many exploits and too unbalanced to be a keeper. Traded mine for WPT+cash and haven't looked back.

Off Topic/ My two cents about Williams Star Trek the next generation.
I had to do a repair on one that was haveing problems with the optos and
ball searches and such, and it was brand new in the box. After long
and frustrating hours troubleshooting, I was able to locate the problem
with the main vertical up kicker. When all said and done it came
out to be the metal box shaped sleeve that was inside the V.U.K. Assembly.
The sleeve was warped and balls would get stuck inside it. In order to
pass inspection, they added several extra balls inside the game just to
make it function. So all in all, from the factory, nine balls jammed inside
the game.

ST:TNG became a $5k machine because it is:

28bb1ee93ce9a6127d6db2d262f3c4cc (resized).jpg

If you think there are exploits, then you don't understand the game. Final Frontier, Borg Multiball, and even maxing out the Super Spinner from several sources are all viable strategies.

Oh I don't? Can you explain to me how a video mode that runs a consistent easy to remember pattern which scores massive points isn't a scoring exploit?

I'm getting deja vu because I feel like I've already done this with you in a couple STTNG threads. The exact same people each time. Some of you people are blinded by "it's the best pin ever made attitude" that you completely ignore just how bad the unbalanced the scoring and strategy actually is. You will literally never play half of the game because it simply isn't worth anything. The risks don't equal the rewards. That's massively unbalanced.

Edit: Here we've already gone through this a year ago https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/games-that-get-stale-fast/page/2#post-2513978

159 million is not "massive points" in ST:TNG.

owners and fans of the show are biased and thats understandable but what if you didn't really like that show and you are currently in the market? being a fan of the show will keep this pin in ur collection a lot longer than for most of us, I had ST25th for a long time due to theme but the gameplay isn't very good and STTNG plays great but I never liked the show so once I achieved Final Frontier it really lost its appeal, the cannons didn't do anything for me, I would rather take the shots, great pin but a players condition STTNG isn't worth than 3500 to me anyway, 5K for a minty version with a color DMD, alt trans and painted toys sounds pretty good.

You seem to be forgetting about the artifact you receive that is worth how much? And potentially how much more when you hit FF? All for doing what? Absolutely nothing. 100% zero risk, 209 million reward. Plus much much more when you hit FF billion. Worst of all it's guaranteed every single time. It's the exact same sequence...every...single...time.

it's a decent chunk of change but it's not like you can do it over and over. you have to hit the beta quadrant ramp an increasing number of times to activate it. it's not remotely imbalanced compared to a decent Borg Multiball. yes, it's a memorizable video mode that's boring once you memorize the pattern, and sure it's worthwhile to go for, but it's not imbalanced score-wise. you can't repeat it over and over unless you are flawless at repeating the beta ramp dozens of times.

edit: went and looked it up. here are the number of times you have to hit the ramp to light the video mode: 3,9,21,27,33,39,51,57,63,69,81,87,93,99

so to get a billion out of the video mode (equivalent to a good Borg Multiball with a little bit of a jackpot built up) you have to hit the beta ramp 51 times. if you can make that ramp 51 times in one game, you deserve to win. yes, it grants you artifacts too, but those are only beneficial if you actually manage to go through all seven primary missions and make it to Final Frontier, which is certainly not an easy thing to do even if you are timing out the modes. if the strategy you are employing requires making it to the Final Frontier wizard mode, i don't think that counts as an "exploit".

Supply vs. Demand.

The supply is fixed,
so we can assume demand went up. We still have people entering the hobby of collecting, and solid WMS games, hold up.

My ST:TNG inserts are not ghosting, my clear is not chipping, the wire gage was not down sized, and the lockdown latch system uses a lever bar (not luggaged latches). Oh, and the code is finished, with a finally, and all insert lights are used.

owners and fans of the theme liking the game isn't bias, it's opinion, same as anyone else's. we like the game because we think it's a great game. we are not shilling so we can get a higher sale price - folks like me and zitt and rarehero are never selling ours (not that you accused us of that, but others have).

$3500 may not be worth it to you (i wouldn't pay the going rate for a pin i'm not interested in either) but i think most fully-working non-trashed STTNGs would be gone in a day at $3500. $5k needs to be an almost outstanding specimen, though, with like you said ColorDMD and upgraded toys. (i don't think we are disagreeing much)

STTNG would be worth a lot more if they hadn't made almost 12,000 of them. the supply is fixed, but it's a large supply.

another intersting thing is that as these games get shopped and modded by collectors, the overall average quality of STTNGs has probably gone way up over the last ten years. this may be what has contributed to its perceived rise in sale price more than anything. the "average" STTNG today is much, much nicer than the "average" STTNG fresh off route 10 years ago.

Excuse the interruption...Time to hit it

Captain Jean-Luc Toke.png
STTNG HIgh.jpg

I get why some owners price pump.

What I don't get is why some people feel the need to price dump. After all, if the game is so bad and you would never own one (again), or there are so many other games you would rather have for the money, why do you care what price owners are asking for them?

I always wanted a sttng and when a nice one came up 6 months ago I took the plunge. $5k Canadian and he was turning down higher offers as I was there loading it up. Optos needed work but pf and cab were mint. Did I overpay? Maybe, however I got a game I wanted and holds its value when it comes to sell or trade.
Unless/until someone makes a Slayer or Maiden pin, mines not going anywhere.