(Topic ID: 97308)

When a sale goes Wrong


By Wariodolby

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 89 posts
  • 51 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by blondetall
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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    #1 5 years ago

    When someone comes to your home to buy a pinball machine. They play it for over 15min, checks all the boards, lifts the play field and inspects it completely. It works perfectly!! They were satisfied with everything, pays for it, take it home. Now it doesn't work. Calls back demanding me to pay for something that broke in transit. The strange thing is this is the second time this happened with these same people, yet this was the first time I heard anything was wrong with the first sale. Never has this happened before with any other sale I've made. Also, has anyone had the same experience with a buyer who removed a perfectly working machine from your home then demanded money back?

    Here is their shake down letter to me.

    "I'm going to voice my negative opinion strongly on Craigslist and Pinside because of the Shadow Pinball if you choose not to make it right with us on that board. I await your response to this matter."

    I'm not giving them a penny back. Am I right or wrong???

    10
    #2 5 years ago

    You're not a dealer and there is no warranty.
    As-Is.

    #3 5 years ago

    I always make it a point to tell the buyer to check the machine carefully while its here, and that things do and will rattle loose during transit and that the machine is being bought as is... on the flip side of that if he feels like the first machine he bought from you was not what you represented why did he come back for a second machine?

    #4 5 years ago
    Quoted from Wariodolby:

    "I'm going to voice my negative opinion strongly on Craigslist and Pinside because of The Shadow Pinball if you choose not to make it right with us on that board. I await your response to this matter."

    Do it. We love to tear folks up who tested the crap out of the machine and blame the seller once they get it home and mess up the re-installation. Blackmail, bring on the Popcorn!!!

    popcorn_eat_good.gif

    #5 5 years ago

    Buyer's remorse is what it sounds like here. They inspected the pin before they purchased it. It was bought AS IS. If they have to pay for a tech to come out and fix it so be it. You don't give them a penny back.

    #6 5 years ago

    Tell us what their complaint is.

    #7 5 years ago

    Thank you ! I know I'm right about this.
    FYI He's complaining about the display driver board,how can that work for 30 minutes while he inspected the machine then go bad the minutes he turns it on at home ?

    #8 5 years ago
    Quoted from Wariodolby:

    I'm not giving them a penny back. Am I right or wrong???

    Only you can answer this.

    #9 5 years ago

    It should be a given that anything can happen in transit no matter how careful you are, and anybody that knows anything about this hobby should know better.

    I bought game off of a guy once, the game played perfectly at his house, 100% nothing wrong with it. Got it home and it wouldn't start a game (an EM). Did I call him and bitch about it? No. Did I demand that he come fix it or have him pay to have someone fix it? No!... Shit happens, especially in transit on a 40 year old game.

    That dude has the same pants to get glad in if you ask me.

    -Steve Ridge
    Louisville, KY

    #10 5 years ago

    One more interesting fact he was bagging the whole time about how he's bought and sold 76 machines this year.

    #11 5 years ago
    Quoted from Wariodolby:

    One more interesting fact he was bagging the whole time about how he's bought and sold 76 machines this year.

    He bought and sold 76 games this year, and came and inspected it himself? You don't owe him anything. Maybe if it was a newbie with their first game or if it was shipped you'd want to try and help out, but someone that's bought and sold that many games knows what they're doing. That's just my opinion.

    #12 5 years ago

    Yep, you're fine. Taillight warranty applies. If you buy a gallon of milk at the store, you can see it, check the expiration date on site, check for leaks, whatever. Once you leave the store with it, if you drop it on the ground and it breaks open, it ain't the store's fault. You buy yourself another gallon of milk if it's that important.

    They came, saw, played, *inspected*, disassembled, loaded, paid for, and took the machine. Whatever happened after that has no impact or bearing upon you. To quote Statham: "The deal is the deal."

    Do yourself a favor and don't deal with this idiot again under any circumstances. You don't want them coming back.

    #13 5 years ago
    Quoted from snyper2099:

    Only you can answer this.

    I have a clear conscience .I sold him a perfect machine.

    #14 5 years ago
    Quoted from Wariodolby:

    I have a clear conscience .I sold him a perfect machine.

    And then you go and throw the word "perfect" around, when I was fully in your corner. Be *very* careful how you bandy that word about.

    While I still think you're well in the clear, I am absolutely certain that the machine you sold him was *far* from "perfect". It may well have been *exactly* how you represented it, but I don't think that's the word you should choose to use in describing it. That's just asking for trouble, you know?

    #15 5 years ago

    ^^^^^this

    #16 5 years ago

    I always tell people you get a "tail-light warranty" as soon as your tail-lights fade out of my sight, then my warranty is over. I had a guy buy a game for me, throw it in the back of a van, drive it 500 miles, set it up and have it not work after playing it for about 4 hours at my house (he brought his family and they wanted to hang out).

    I felt bad for the guy but told him there's no way to know what happened to the game after it left my house. Did you drop it? Did you try to fix something and mess it up?

    If he's really sold that many games then he ought to know how to do some repairs.

    I'd say you're right and that no warranty is implied when selling privately.

    Dave

    #17 5 years ago
    Quoted from Wariodolby:

    Thank you ! I know I'm right about this.
    FYI He's complaining about the display driver board,how can that work for 30 minutes while he inspected the machine then go bad the minutes he turns it on at home ?

    Pretty normal for that ribbon cable to come loose in a move... As long as he wasn't an ape and tried to reseat it with power on, its a pretty common fix.

    #18 5 years ago

    That is why it is a "cash only" sale

    #19 5 years ago

    Even when ** I ** inspect a game before buying it, I still find some problems when I tear it down.

    Never fails.

    "If it ain't broke, it ain't pinball" - Jersey Jack

    #20 5 years ago

    IMO, sounds like you're 100% in the right.

    Shit shakes loose.

    ....I think you should call his bluff, and let us know who bought this.

    #21 5 years ago
    Quoted from boagman:

    And then you go and throw the word "perfect" around, when I was fully in your corner. Be *very* careful how you bandy that word about.
    While I still think you're well in the clear, I am absolutely certain that the machine you sold him was *far* from "perfect". It may well have been *exactly* how you represented it, but I don't think that's the word you should choose to use in describing it. That's just asking for trouble, you know?

    I won't use the word perfect then,but will say you could play a full game with everything working as it should .

    18
    #22 5 years ago

    It would be funny if you Choggared the Choggard.

    #23 5 years ago
    Quoted from Wariodolby:

    I won't use the word perfect then,but will say you could play a full game with everything working as it should .

    And I can totally live with that, believing you. You do understand the point I was making though, correct?

    #24 5 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    It would be funny if you Choggared the Choggard.

    Just for everyone's curiosity it was not Choggard.
    I won't say who it was but I hope they chime in because everything you guys are saying is what I was trying to get through to them before communication totally broke down.

    #25 5 years ago
    Quoted from boagman:

    And I can totally live with that, believing you. You do understand the point I was making though, correct?

    Yes boagman,I do understand your point

    #26 5 years ago

    As long as you described the game the best you possibly could, and the buyer gave you the thumbs up to buy it, once he leaves you don't have any kind of obligation to him anymore. Now what makes a good seller is following up and making sure they are happy though. I mean, you shouldn't have to bend over backwards for them if something goes wrong, but you can certainly give them some helpful advice and even point them in the right direction. Usually point a to point b problems are simple fixes. Once someone decides to threaten you in any way, then they can just screw off though. If the guy is nice then I definitely have no problem working with him should a problem arise.

    #27 5 years ago

    Anyone who buys 3 games a week, will know how to reseat the ribbon cable.

    I smell a shitsack.

    #28 5 years ago
    Quoted from rockotaco1:

    As long as you described the game the best you possibly could, and the buyer have you the thumbs up to buy it, once he leaves you don't have any kind of obligation to him anymore. Now what makes a good seller is following up and making sure they are happy though. I mean, you shouldn't have to bend over backwards for them if something goes wrong, but you can certainly give them some helpful advice and even point them in the right direction. Usually point a to point b problems are simple fixes. Once someone decides to threaten you in any way, then the can just screw off though. If he guy is nice then I definitely have no problem working with him should a problem arise.

    I spent 20 minutes on the phone with him at my daughters soccer game trouble shooting ,then my phone went dead and I texted him from my wife's phone.Then he called me 3 hours later to demanded "make it right "

    #29 5 years ago

    Tell him to wake the f**k up, if you buy anything used there is a risk , pinball even more so as they are very old . If you can't fix it , or learn to be patient and take the time to learn how to fix it , get out of the hobby . So many people jump in and expect a machine to act like new . If it was a car and he took it , he likey wouldn't even call back if he figured out the blinker wasn't working .

    #30 5 years ago

    I sold my first game to one of my best friends not to long ago, never had any serious problems with it, we loaded it up and drove it to his place, it was only 10 minutes up the road and when he set it up there were problems with the display and switches moved, and like I said it was literally in the car for 10 minutes tops, its all fixed now and running great it wasn't a massive deal, but its crazy how much can go wrong with a pin when driving around the block and moving it into a new environment..

    #31 5 years ago

    I have a 20/20 warranty.

    20 seconds or 20cm's, whichever comes first.

    #32 5 years ago

    Once it is in the buyers vehicle it is no longer your property or your responsibility. How do you know he doesn't have a similar machine with a trashed board and is trying to get a new one?? Ive been selling on Ebay and at shows sine the early 90s. SO many scammers...

    #33 5 years ago

    I am sure Wariodolby you are the sort of person that if the buyer contacted you and said look I got it home and its not working 'can you help me' you would go out of your way to provide what ever support could reasonably be provided. But given the buyers quite assertive, threatening and unreasonable request of you in my view both morally and commercially you have no obligation to do anymore. And so what if he carries through with his threat Pinsiders will be able to see through that one!

    #34 5 years ago

    Something smells fishy. Who's to say the guy didn't swap out a board (your working CPU boards for his unworking CPU boards) while at home? This hobby isn't a stranger to slimeballs.

    That said... maybe that's not the case at all with this guy.

    But if he inspected the game before agreeing to pay you and take it home, then it's on him. He bought it as-is.

    A more honest person wouldn't become belligerent right off the bat and would be civil when calling you back and asking you if you could help him.

    #35 5 years ago

    Tell the buyer to pound sand. He played it and payed for it on his satisfactory test run and inspection. Cutoff contact with him, you are not Wal-Mart.

    #36 5 years ago

    Even if you give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn't swap your board for another, he saw this game in person, liked it enough to pay and take it home, it's simply not your responsibility what happens after that.

    Anyone who's bought 70 plus games in a year knows this and frankly is trying to take advantage by implying you should pay for it. Sounds to me like a board repair eats up a lot of the profit he'd planned to make flipping the machine.

    #37 5 years ago

    The language in that email sounds formulaic. Wonder if the buyer sends that same email every time.

    I've seen that kind of 'internet blackmail' before, where someone threatens to destroy your reputation on Yelp or something like that. Honestly, just keep everything documented and tell the buyer politely that you're sorry but you can't be held liable for any damage that happens in transit.

    When I bought my first pinball two years ago, even though I was green as anything, I still wouldn't have expected an issue with the game after I got it home to be the responsibility of the seller.

    #38 5 years ago

    It sounds like the sale went fine. They paid for the game and took it away. I've bought pins that ended up having issues, and sold a couple as well. It is the nature of the beast. If the person was a friend, you work it out so you both are happy. But if the person was just someone buying the game off CL or something, once it is loaded, it is theirs.

    #39 5 years ago

    Tell him you would buy it back for one third of what he paid. After all it is a non working game now. LOL

    #40 5 years ago

    By the way, if he sent you a formulaic letter, respond to it. I forget what the term is, but a non-response can often times be viewed as a near admission you did something wrong in the eyes of a small claims court. When obviously you are in the right here.

    #41 5 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Anyone who buys 3 games a week, will know how to reseat the ribbon cable.
    I smell a shitsack.

    ^^^^^^^This!

    #42 5 years ago

    I

    Quoted from n0s4atu:By the way, if he sent you a formulaic letter, respond to it. I forget what the term is, but a non-response can often times be viewed as a near admission you did something wrong in the eyes of a small claims court. When obviously you are in the right here.

    I did respond it might be a little harsh but here is my emails response----

    I only do this for a hobby. I don't do it to pay my mortgage. I will not give you any money back, I sold you a perfect working pinball machine. You played the pin and checked it out completely. If you want to embarrass yourself and whine about it, go ahead.

    #43 5 years ago

    Sorry to hear about your troubles with the buyer. This has always been my fear when selling pins and so far I have been pretty lucky. I'd say you are in the right and I hope you are able to resolve it.

    #44 5 years ago

    The very first machine I sold had a ground wire shake loose during transit that later caused boot issues a few days after the guy set it up. He called and was pretty upset about it, but reasonably so as it was his first machine and was a gift. I had explained that things can happen during transport to the family when they picked it up.

    I told him it was probably a loose wire and said I'd come check it out since he was only 30 minutes away. I found the issue in about 5 minutes, then I saw he had a music studio, so we shot the shit for a while, and at the end he gave me an additional $100 for coming out to fix the issue. I was not expecting that at all. Very nice outcome, an all around great guy too. I think some people just get very emotional because of the amount of money involved. I do what I can and try to be as honest and helpful as possible, and it worked that time.

    This guy, however, seems like a straight-up doucher.

    #45 5 years ago

    Assuming there's no warranty expressed or implied here, it becomes an issue of the golden rule. Treat people like you'd want to be treated.

    Understand that someone who just bought an expensive toy that now doesn't work would have a good reason to be a little upset, treat them like you'd want to be treated.

    If the guy turns into a complete DB, he's violated the golden rule that he should use when dealing with you, and it's all over.

    #46 5 years ago
    Quoted from johnwartjr:

    Assuming there's no warranty expressed or implied here, it becomes an issue of the golden rule. Treat people like you'd want to be treated.
    Understand that someone who just bought an expensive toy that now doesn't work would have a good reason to be a little upset, treat them like you'd want to be treated.
    If the guy turns into a complete DB, he's violated the golden rule that he should use when dealing with you, and it's all over.

    The guy has already turned into a complete DB by demanding satisfaction and making threats.

    And the golden rule sucks. What if you are dealing with a moron, or serial killer? I know a guy who likes to get beaten by obese women wearing leather - does that mean he should go around treating people like that?

    But John, you have a good heart and soul.

    #47 5 years ago

    I go over the top with telling buyers that pinball games always are breaking and that the game they are buying from me will probably have some problems by the time they get it home, even though it is working great now.

    Oddly, no matter how much I paint a picture of the doom and glum maintenance nightmare that a pinball machine is people seem to be happy to buy the pin. I think they either are blocking out what I am saying because they are so excited to get a pin or they are just happy to see the pin I am selling is 50% of what the retailers/ebay is selling it for and are willing to take the gamble.

    #48 5 years ago

    I like the idea of the golden rule amongst Pinsiders and people in general, but to me when you buy and sell more than 70 pins in a year, it's clearly a business and the same rules don't apply. The OP let the guy be hands on, check it over really well it sounds like and play it. He was satisfied, paid and took it with him. Once it was loaded up, it's no longer his responsibility.

    As a nice gesture of good will, he spent time on the phone trouble shooting, but to me even that wasn't "necessary" and simply him following the golden rule.

    At this point all his obligations as a seller have been met. I feel bad for the buyer, as I'd personally be lost without someone helping me, but the OP has no duty to do more than he has. We simply don't know how the machine was treated after it left the OP's home. Was the ride back to the buyer's home especially rough? Did it get dropped or banged around unloading it? Who knows?

    It really is like buying a used car. Test drive it, look it over, hell have an expert do all that. Once you decide it's good enough and you buy it, it's yours. Problems and all. Without an expressed written warranty the sale should be considered as-is.

    #49 5 years ago
    Quoted from Wariodolby:

    The strange thing is this is the second time this happened with these same people

    Quoted from Firebaall:

    ....I think you should call his bluff, and let us know who bought this.

    I'm guessing it's the new pinball shop in MI that's lowballing everyones sales and still looking for a pinball tech.

    #50 5 years ago

    You are not doing anything wrong, ethically, by not refunding his money. Morally, you have done the right thing by trying to troubleshoot over the phone.

    It would be very simple for him to post the problem here and I'm sure he would get all the help he needs to fix the game. Then he could sell it to someone else and be on his merry way.

    It is ridiculous for him to demand you to "make it right" and threaten you with libel.

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