(Topic ID: 38171)

What's Wrong with my Flipper?


By Stack15

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 110 posts
  • 21 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by Chambahz
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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There are 110 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
#51 6 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Have you pulled and checked it's fuse, with a meter ?

Doh! I'll go figure out which one it is and check it.

#52 6 years ago

Here are some pictures.

#53 6 years ago

Great job Stack getting all up in there. I used to suck bad soldering. Well, I kinda still do but I now know HOW to do it right from practice. You'll start feeling better as you do more but I give you props for stepping up. Its really the only way to fix these yourself without having to pay or bother somebody.

#54 6 years ago
Quoted from dmacy:

Great job Stack getting all up in there.

Thanks. I paid someone to do a flipper rebuild for me two years ago. That's how I learned to do that. Funny... because that's how I messed this one up.

#55 6 years ago

It's all good. I f'd up a flipper coil swap myself and I knew better. Had to send my board out. $100 lesson from stupidity. Mistakes happen and this will insure you do it right the next time. I'd be looking on the map here and start PM'ing some local guys and ask if they're willing to show you some tricks in return for some plays on your games, beer or a little cash. And you can meet a new pin friend or two.

#56 6 years ago
Quoted from Stack15:

Doh! I'll go figure out which one it is and check it.

On the Fliptronics board F904 3 amp slow blow.

LTG : )

#57 6 years ago

All four fuses on the fliptronics board are good. Yes I did remove them to test.

#58 6 years ago

The flipper leaf switch moves correctly. I am rather stumped. I thought for sure the coil swap would fix it.

#59 6 years ago
Quoted from Stack15:

The flipper leaf switch moves correctly. I am rather stumped. I thought for sure the coil swap would fix it.

Flipper leaf switch ? Your game should have flipper button opto boards - though leaf switches can work if installed right.

Go into switch edge test, see if that leaf switch works.

LTG : )

#60 6 years ago

Here are the pictures that weren't posting for me.

game.JPG coil_swap.JPG diagram.JPG

#61 6 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Flipper leaf switch ? Your game should have flipper button opto boards - though leaf switches can work if installed right.

Go into switch edge test, see if that leaf switch works.

LTG : )

My bad... wrong term. The flipper high power works fine in test mode.

#62 6 years ago

I don't suppose that at sometime in the future you'd consider putting better looking or new coils in there ?

LTG : )

#63 6 years ago
Quoted from Stack15:

The flipper high power works fine in test mode.

I wouldn't worry much about flipper test, I never use it - it always seems kind of funky.

Other than your other coil you stuck in might have an open field too.

LTG : )

#64 6 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Other than your other coil you stuck in might have an open field too.

It worked fine in the game it came out of. Very stumped. The good news is that I did increase my soldering skill from a 1 to a 2. I don't think it will ever take me 2.5 hours to fix a cracked connection again.

Thank you for that.

#65 6 years ago
Quoted from Stack15:

It worked fine in the game it came out of. Very stumped. The good news is that I did increase my soldering skill from a 1 to a 2. I don't think it will ever take me 2.5 hours to fix a cracked connection again.

Thank you for that.

Might have done some damage removing it from the other game.

I am glad through all this you are keeping your spirits up, and progressing on fixing and learning.

LTG : )

#66 6 years ago

Could there be a wire short? Would that cause this issue?

I knew that buying a less than 100% STTNG would force me to learn some things. I certainly didn't expect anything from the flipper rebuild. I have completed that task on five other machines with no problems.

#67 6 years ago
Quoted from Stack15:

Could there be a wire short? Would that cause this issue?

No, that would blow a fuse or more.

The flipper coil is like two coils, more than likely one is open. Won't blow anything up, just won't work.

LTG : )

#68 6 years ago

I'm thinking I blew a transistor on the fliptronics board. I'm going to ground those plugs and see. I have no clue how to fix the transistor though.

#69 6 years ago
Quoted from Stack15:

I'm thinking I blew a transistor on the fliptronics board. I'm going to ground those plugs and see. I have no clue how to fix the transistor though.

The flipper would lock on if you did.

I'd check with a meter to satisfy your curiosity. I wouldn't ground anything.

LTG : )

#70 6 years ago

Oh sorry. I grounded each power and holding circuit for the left and right flippers.

Left Flipper:
J902 slot 9 - Blue-Gray Power = kept the left flipper up when grounded
J902 slot 7 - orange-blue holding = nothing happened when grounded

Right Flipper
J902 slot 13 - blue-violet Power = kept the right flipper up when grounded
J902 slot 11 - orange-green holding = kept the right flipper up when grounded

So the problem is with the orange-blue wire (aka the Auburn wire) on the left flipper. I checked the current and it hits right around 1 volt. The other two connectors on that coil hit 3.5 volts. All three connectors on the other coil hit 3.5 volts.

So I need more volts to that wire. Or maybe I wired it wrong? I think it is wired correctly though as it is in the same sequence as the old coil and the old coil worked before I rebuilt the flipper.

Any advice on this one? I think now we at least know the problem. Right?

#71 6 years ago

You wired it right, and likely the other coil you stuck in there is the problem.

LTG : )

#72 6 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

The flipper would lock on if you did.

Not necessarily, I repaired a Fliptronics board with a shorted hold transistor. The symptom was the flipper was not staying up. It turned out that transistor had locked on and blew a trace. This was an early Fliptronics 1 board without fuses to cover this sort of thing.

Interestingly enough this is an indication that you can't hold a flipper up indefinitely.

#73 6 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

You wired it right, and likely the other coil you stuck in there is the problem.

Rats... I'm running out of coils. So the coil can affect the volts?

#74 6 years ago

2 open coils in a row? I'm skeptical. Try this: disconnect all Fliptronics board connectors (expect ribbon cable, you can leave that in place). Set your meter to diode test and test the center lug of your coil along with each outside lug. Switch the probes each time for a total of 4 tests. Do you get some sort of reading every time?

#75 6 years ago

There is a wire break in the "new coil." Could that be the problem?

#76 6 years ago

Sorry... pictures aren't uploading from my cell phone.

Both coils - the one that came with the game and the one I stole from another have breaks in their wires. Is this something all coils have? Or could this be the root of my problem?

Can I "solder" those wires back together? I'm only asking because we don't have a local coil store.

#77 6 years ago

Here is the picture. Uploading them is getting more difficult.

coil_break.JPG

#78 6 years ago
Quoted from Stack15:

There is a wire break in the "new coil." Could that be the problem?

Yes.

LTG : )

#79 6 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

LTG said:

The flipper would lock on if you did.

Not necessarily, I repaired a Fliptronics board with a shorted hold transistor. The symptom was the flipper was not staying up. It turned out that transistor had locked on and blew a trace. This was an early Fliptronics 1 board without fuses to cover this sort of thing.

Interestingly enough this is an indication that you can't hold a flipper up indefinitely.

Normally I'd go with your experience. But he had a bad looking Matzco coil in there, and replaced it with a worse looking coil.

That is why I'd concentrate on the coils.

LTG : )

#80 6 years ago

Doh! Doh, Freenzy!! I know I caught the "new" coil on something when I took it out. The old coil... well there was a dent in the paper. I must have done that too. I think I just may have a very old one from TAF in my cabinet somewhere.

Yes I know I could take the upper flipper one off and put it down there. I really, really don't want to canablise any more flipper coils.

I may be calling in the overnight shipping.

#81 6 years ago

Are they unwinding? The only way to fix it is cut it to length, melt the insulation off with a lighter, then solder it back to the lug.

#82 6 years ago
Quoted from Stack15:

Both coils - the one that came with the game and the one I stole from another have breaks in their wires. Is this something all coils have? Or could this be the root of my problem?

That is your problem.

LTG : )

#83 6 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

Are they unwinding? The only way to fix it is cut it to length, melt the insulation off with a lighter, then solder it back to the lug.

Yes. I'm going to see if I can scrounge up yet another coil that will make the game playable for the short term. If not... it's probably best to overnight some. I know I should have backup coils but I do not.

#84 6 years ago
Quoted from Stack15:

it's probably best to overnight some.

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=7

Be sure the diodes are facing the same direction, get the wires in the same spots.

LTG : )

#85 6 years ago

I think both of my dogs are in there somewhere.

mess.JPG

#86 6 years ago

The crock pot workbench 5000 with ironing board upgrade?

So jealous....

#87 6 years ago

Picking up a new coil today after work. Let's all hope that does it.

Then I can get to fixing the cannon and my drop target still has an issue. It won't go down on it's own. The launch a probe option is supposed to make the target drop. It only drops if a ball hits it.

#88 6 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

The crock pot workbench 5000 with ironing board upgrade?

So jealous....

hahahahaha

#89 6 years ago
Quoted from Stack15:

I think both of my dogs are in there somewhere.

I see alot of frustration in the pic. Ironing board is classic. I take it you must be single?? I hope you able to get it working, good luck

#90 6 years ago
Quoted from Jeff_PHX_AZ:

I see alot of frustration in the pic. Ironing board is classic. I take it you must be single?? I hope you able to get it working, good luck

As I recall he needs the game by Sunday.

Getting that mess cleaned up by then will be a miracle.

Best wishes on the repairs !

LTG : )

#91 6 years ago

Thanks! I am going to the circus tonight and Sienfield tomorrow night. I won't be able to sleep until the new coil is in the game. By the little timeline I had in my mind, STTNG was supposed to be running fine with one or less errors (drop target or cannon) by bedtime last night.

The left flipper has really thrown everything off track. Please everyone cross your fingers for coil #3. As LTG eluded to several times, the problem is in the coil. Then the problem was in the "replacement" coil. Having two with the same issue was the weird part.

#92 6 years ago

Yeah after seeing how your coils are unwinding, that could very well be the issue.

#93 6 years ago
Quoted from Stack15:

Thanks! I am going to the circus tonight and Sienfield tomorrow night. I won't be able to sleep until the new coil is in the game. By the little timeline I had in my mind, STTNG was supposed to be running fine with one or less errors (drop target or cannon) by bedtime last night.
The left flipper has really thrown everything off track. Please everyone cross your fingers for coil #3. As LTG eluded to several times, the problem is in the coil. Then the problem was in the "replacement" coil. Having two with the same issue was the weird part.

I don't know if this will make you feel better or worse, but I've been doing electro-mechanical work for 15 years and I still have problems/days like you've dealt with here. I respect you for hanging in there and finishing after you got frustrated with the soldering. Before you know it you'll be swapping playfields over the weekend and teaching newbies how to solder.

#94 6 years ago

Néw coil!

#95 6 years ago
Quoted from Stack15:

I think both of my dogs are in there somewhere.

I hope your soldering iron isn't ! lol

#96 6 years ago

Good luck!

#97 6 years ago

Fixed it! LTG and Crash were right. The coil was the problem this entire time. It's just odd that my replacement coil had the exact same issue. I went to the circus (cool elephants!), came home and put the new coil in. Flippers work great!

I'm thinking I may add "replace coil" to my standard flipper rebuilding process. It is currently the only thing I don't replace.

As for the rest of the game, I think I have the left cannon working properly now too. BUT my drop target has a missing piece! I'm wondering if I can rig something to make it work for this weekend. If not the game is quite playable without it.

http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/01-8647-L

#98 6 years ago
Quoted from Stack15:

I'm thinking I may add "replace coil" to my standard flipper rebuilding process. It is currently the only thing I don't replace.

Unless your coils are hacked to crap, please don't. New plunger assembly, new coil sleeve, new coil stop is good. New nylon bushing the flipper shaft goes through is good too. Maybe new flipper if yours are worn or cracked.

If the coil looks good, go with it.

And good job on fixing it ! I know it wasn't an easy process for you but you gutted it out and got it done.

LTG : )

#99 6 years ago
Quoted from Stack15:

BUT my drop target has a missing piece! I'm wondering if I can rig something to make it work for this weekend. If not the game is quite playable without it.

http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/01-8647-L

Do you have the part that broke off ? If so you could solder it together and make it work. Or a piece of brass could be made to look like the missing part and soldered on.

And please forgive me for using that solder word.

LTG : )

#100 6 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Unless your coils are hacked to crap, please don't. New plunger assembly, new coil sleeve, new coil stop is good. New nylon bushing the flipper shaft goes through is good too. Maybe new flipper if yours are worn or cracked.

Okay... but for now on I am keeping a spare around. Most of my games use that same blue coil.

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There are 110 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.

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