(Topic ID: 298191)

What’s the normal frustration level for a newbie re: EM repair?

By Redcloud

2 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 64 posts
  • 36 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by RonSS
  • Topic is favorited by 12 Pinsiders

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There are 64 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 2 years ago

Also, never be shy about asking for help on this forum. That’s what it’s here for and lots of knowledgeable people on here actually enjoy helping out and teaching about EMs.

There’s going to be frustrating times as there are for everyone on here but also lots of fun, rewarding days too as long as you have a passion for these old machines.

#52 2 years ago

It's a big box full of on/off switches.

You can handle it.

#53 2 years ago
Quoted from Redcloud:

Hey Rampton! Got a response from Third Coast Pinball and I’m sure he’s going to be helpful. Thanks for hookup!

Awesome! Hope everything works out for you.

#54 2 years ago

Always remember:

THE SCHEMATIC IS LOGICAL and IT WORKS.

And remember...

If you can't figure it out, you are just missing something to understand how it works.

And remember...

It takes a long time to figure out all the workings of a machine, but there is so much online documentation and tutorials to help get you most of the way there.

And finally...

The experienced people here are really good with knowledge and helpful data.

#55 2 years ago

One big part of EM repair is learning how to read a schematic. When I started, I didn’t know much about schematics. I didn’t know that a circuit connects one side of the schematic to the other. I was just trying to “connect” lines to each other every which way. Once I learned that basic thing, then it started making sense. Using that basic foundation and learning the symbols, I’ve gotten very comfortable with EM schematics. Hang in there, friend. If I could learn it, I’m confident you will too!

#56 2 years ago
Quoted from wolverinetuner:

One big part of EM repair is learning how to read a schematic. When I started, I didn’t know much about schematics. I didn’t know that a circuit connects one side of the schematic to the other. I was just trying to “connect” lines to each other every which way. Once I learned that basic thing, then it started making sense. Using that basic foundation and learning the symbols, I’ve gotten very comfortable with EM schematics. Hang in there, friend. If I could learn it, I’m confident you will too!

I’ve been trying to “connect” the lines……..good point, thanks!

#57 2 years ago
Quoted from Gott72:

Always remember:
THE SCHEMATIC IS LOGICAL and IT WORKS.
And remember...
If you can't figure it out, you are just missing something to understand how it works.
And remember...
It takes a long time to figure out all the workings of a machine, but there is so much online documentation and tutorials to help get you most of the way there.
And finally...
The experienced people here are really good with knowledge and helpful data.

Simple tips but so true…thanks!

#58 2 years ago
Quoted from wolverinetuner:

One big part of EM repair is learning how to read a schematic. When I started, I didn’t know much about schematics. I didn’t know that a circuit connects one side of the schematic to the other. I was just trying to “connect” lines to each other every which way. Once I learned that basic thing, then it started making sense. Using that basic foundation and learning the symbols, I’ve gotten very comfortable with EM schematics. Hang in there, friend. If I could learn it, I’m confident you will too!

Bingo. That’s exactly what I went through until HowardR explained that very same thing about how circuits run to the main wires that go to both sides of the transformer. Before that I was aimlessly following them everywhere.

It’s great when that light goes off finally, thanks to the help from the experts.

#59 2 years ago
Quoted from wolverinetuner:

I didn’t know that a circuit connects one side of the schematic to the other. I was just trying to “connect” lines to each other every which way.

Any chance you could elaborate on the definitions of and the distinction between these two perspectives, please?

#60 2 years ago
Quoted from Rampton:

Any chance you could elaborate on the definitions of and the distinction between these two perspectives, please?

An EM schematic has two parts, one for 6 volt circuits (for lighting), the other for a higher voltage (generally 24 or 50 volts). Each of these parts is printed down the length of the schematic sheet and these 2 parts are next to each other. The 6 volt part is generally the shorter one. Each is basically a column with a line on each side running down the long side of the sheet.

Lines that generally run crosswise between those long lines are circuits. When switches close so as to connect a circuit line from one long line to the other, then whatever device is connected along that circuit line (e.g., relay coil, solenoid, score motor) is energized, so that the relay pulls in, the solenoid pulls in its plunger, or the score motor starts running.

So the key is for the circuit lines to connect between the long lines on the schematic. Before I understood this, I was just trying to look for switches closing and connecting lines on the schematic in general, not whether they were closing to complete a specific circuit. Actually, a website provided me with a simple way to understand this basic point. Here’s the link to that website:

https://havepinwilltravel.wordpress.com/intro-to-em-pinball-machines-and-their-schematics/

#61 2 years ago
Quoted from wolverinetuner:

An EM schematic has two parts, one for 6 volt circuits (for lighting), the other for a higher voltage (generally 24 or 50 volts). Each of these parts is printed down the length of the schematic sheet and these 2 parts are next to each other. The 6 volt part is generally the shorter one. Each is basically a column with a line on each side running down the long side of the sheet.
Lines that generally run crosswise between those long lines are circuits. When switches close so as to connect a circuit line from one long line to the other, then whatever device is connected along that circuit line (e.g., relay coil, solenoid, score motor) is energized, so that the relay pulls in, the solenoid pulls in its plunger, or the score motor starts running.
So the key is for the circuit lines to connect between the long lines on the schematic. Before I understood this, I was just trying to look for switches closing and connecting lines on the schematic in general, not whether they were closing to complete a specific circuit. Actually, a website provided me with a simple way to understand this basic point. Here’s the link to that website:
https://havepinwilltravel.wordpress.com/intro-to-em-pinball-machines-and-their-schematics/

i.e. you were looking at the switches to close to connect lines/wires either side of it instead of closing to perform a specific function? That website helps to visualise the parts (stepper, etc.). I've also been reading SteveFury's thread which has really helped. I don't even have an EM (or any machine) yet, but I find the inner workings fascinating. Thanks for the explanation.

#62 2 years ago
Quoted from Rampton:

i.e. you were looking at the switches to close to connect lines/wires either side of it instead of closing to perform a specific function? That website helps to visualise the parts (stepper, etc.). I've also been reading SteveFury's thread which has really helped. I don't even have an EM (or any machine) yet, but I find the inner workings fascinating. Thanks for the explanation.

Yeah, I was just looking at lines that branched out from what wasn’t working, or even trying to connect lines between different components, but not trying to complete a circuit. I agree, SteveFury’s thread is a great resource, I’ve learned a lot from that as well, especially about what the score motor does.

#63 2 years ago
Quoted from JudeRussell:

I'm a EE by training / vocation and have seem my share of ladder-logic schematics, but EM schematics are breed unto themselves. It's not always easy or intuitive, so don't beat yourself up. I got pretty good at working through Gottlieb schematics and then got a Chicago Coin game - whole different scheme.
The things that took me time to understand:
* Latching relays vs. regular relays
* Stepper units (player control, bonus units, etc.)
* Score motor
I've had really good luck with the Pinside community - if I have an issue, I try to describe it as best I can, posit some theories, scan the pertinent bits of the schematic, and post. Usually someone hops in with the answer, corrections (if my theories are way off track), some trouble-shooting ideas or some advice (cleaning or tweaking contacts, etc.)
I also find reading through the EM troubleshooting threads (even if they are not related to my games) useful.
One of the things I love about working on these older games - the creativity of the designers and engineers. My first design projects were TTL circuits - you came up with a design, you bought the chips, you put it together and tested it. These folks were finding creative ways to design digital logic with motors, relays, ratchets - I guess the "mechanical" part of "electro-mechanical" still fascinates (and challenges) me.

Same here (electrical engineer). I'll still amazed how they figured out how to accomplish all the things with just relays.

#64 2 years ago

"Remember, you wanted this,,,"

Hey, no worries, most of us have been there. It helps if you have a working machine to base things off of, so my first piece of advice is to go buy another (working) machine.

Seriously though, my method has generally been to start by rebuilding one piece at a time. Maybe do it twice to get a feel for how things work. LOTS OF PICTURES. The more things you change, the worse your issues become.

I also agree with starting a help thread regarding this specific issue. You'll get tons of specific input and be able to log each result.

Keep at it, it starts making sense, eventually.

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