The first one is hard! They get easier….

The 2 non working EMs in my basement are telling me it csn be very frustrating

It can be daunting when you start. I honestly still do t get the logic but an very fortunate to have a local pinsider who gets me up and running when I ask for his help. Don’t feel bad. Many have been and still are where you are. I am one of them. Try and maybe find a local enthusiast and ask them if you can PAY THEM fir their time to try and troubleshoot your game. I have up trying to learn the logic. I try and do what I do well and let others do what they do well. You are amongst great company

Don’t be so hard on yourself. Fixing these machines is a lot like looking at those Magic Eye 3D pictures. Some people look at them and immediately they “see it”. Others stare for a long time and one day it just happens and they can “see it”. From there on out, it gets easier each time. A very small minority never “see it” and those people get help from others.

Keep on studying and trying and testing. You can’t hurt anything and when you fix your problem you’ll build confidence to fix the next one.

All of us are still learning.

Start there. Very good info on fixing em machines. Check the older em videos too.

Frustration begins bending over looking into tight spaces.
Remove the bottom board.
Concentrate on one board at a time.

I never got frustrated because I was on a mission and pepared mentally before beginning.
Half measure don't work in the long term.

Have you considered the online repair clinic?

https://www.funwithpinball.com/learn/EM-pinball-online-repair-clinic

Maybe of some help.

Here is an animation of the typical Gottlieb start up sequence.

Pinrepair.com is the bible, but its a lot to digest..

I'm a EE by training / vocation and have seem my share of ladder-logic schematics, but EM schematics are breed unto themselves. It's not always easy or intuitive, so don't beat yourself up. I got pretty good at working through Gottlieb schematics and then got a Chicago Coin game - whole different scheme.

The things that took me time to understand:

* Latching relays vs. regular relays
* Stepper units (player control, bonus units, etc.)
* Score motor

I've had really good luck with the Pinside community - if I have an issue, I try to describe it as best I can, posit some theories, scan the pertinent bits of the schematic, and post. Usually someone hops in with the answer, corrections (if my theories are way off track), some trouble-shooting ideas or some advice (cleaning or tweaking contacts, etc.)

I also find reading through the EM troubleshooting threads (even if they are not related to my games) useful.

One of the things I love about working on these older games - the creativity of the designers and engineers. My first design projects were TTL circuits - you came up with a design, you bought the chips, you put it together and tested it. These folks were finding creative ways to design digital logic with motors, relays, ratchets - I guess the "mechanical" part of "electro-mechanical" still fascinates (and challenges) me.

After awhile it starts to make sense. (a long while) Good luck

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Hi,

If you check in my posts about 8 months ago, I did a post that starts “EM Nubie” where I listed my progress on a Gottlieb Bank Shot I got up and working. At the end of the thread I posted my lessons learned for going thru the progress of totally not working to up and running. It may help.

Hi Redcloud . If you work on something as complex as clocks, then I have high confidence that you can figure out an EM. I treat them as a bunch of little puzzles to solve.

I am an electronics geek, but here are things that helped me:

http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index1.htm#top

Search pinside for your game and look at the forum posts tab — you might find your exact problem. You can also use google to search.

Post your problem on pinside and tag your game. There are lots of folks who can give you suggestions.

Use jumper cables with alligator clips to eliminate or “force” conditions in the circuit to narrow down the potential switches/relays.

Build a test lamp with 2 12 volt bulbs in series and clip leads wired to the other bulb terminals. This helps to visually show you what parts of the circuit are energized in a gottlieb or Williams 24 volt machine. Bally uses 50 volts so this tool doesn’t work there.

A pinball machine is a big state machine. It starts in one state, switches and relays then cause it to move to a new state. That doesn’t get shown on the schematic and it takes a while to get the gist of that.

A schematic is a logical representation of the circuit, not a physical one, so that can lead to a bit of confusion when you’re looking at the physical wires.

A short circuit won’t be shown on the schematic. Sometimes weird behavior is because of a connection that isn’t supposed to be there. 2 solder tabs touching, a bare wire touching, or a make-break switch that is touching both terminals at once can screw stuff up.

If it’s a machine that’s new to you, odds are that a fix or hack made by a previous owner needs to be done properly.

I hope this helps. It is a fun and rewarding hobby.

Dave

A wealth of info in this thread...

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/em-pinball-circuits-basics-to-not-so-basic

Not sure the frustration ever goes away. I recently solved a long term problem on Hearts and Spades (sister machine to Spin a Card). Someone had attached a wire to the wrong tab, throwing off the entire reset cycle. So there's always that possibility.

That makes so much sense, thanks.

I've been looking at things like relay ladder logic but between the various steppers and the score motor - well, things get overly complicated quickly.

7

Have you gone through and cleaned every single switch in the machine? That is step one. Do all of the steppers step each way? Some only step up, others up and down (i.e. credit unit). If they do not move freely, it wont work correctly. Have you cleaned the male and female ends of the “jones plugs”? The connections between base cab and head. It sounds like you cleaned the score reels already. After cleaning, make sure each switch that is open, closes, and vise versa. Can you post a pic/pics of the schematics? I am no expert, but if starting with everything clean, you have a better shot at finding the issue.

"Call the Man Aunt Bea" (Andy Griffith.)

I would try reaching out to some pinball related businesses in your area. For example:
- Corpus Christi: Third Coast Pinball & Graphics https://www.thirdcoastpinballandgraphics.com
- Houston: Joysitx - Classic Games & Pinballs https://www.joystixgames.com

Maybe they could, at least, put you in touch with someone who could look at your machine.

I didn't see much coming up for Corpus Christi, but try a web-search for "Pinball Repair Houston TX", or similar for San Antonio. There are a few hits that you may be able to work with or leap off from.

My best advise is to break the machine down into individual devices, do i have the right voltage out of the transformer, are the fuses blown, do the score reels reset to 0, is the ball return switch open most em games will not reset if the ball switch is open, stepper units cleaned dielectric grease on the finger side of the board, is the jumpers from the factory installed in the correct places, look for missing or dirty contacts. check make and break contacts with an ohm meter, get your self a set of circuit breakers easily purchased at auto parts stores, saves on the cost of fuse replacement, Remember most of these schematics are one line diagrams and control multiple devices, invest in a couples sets of alligator jumper wires of different colors. If checking gi light use all the same color wires to jump from place to place

your ball count stepper is not counting down check the unit for grime sounds like it resets score wheels after ball goes in hole check game over relay contacts.

If you have a ball or player advance unit under the playfield. Don't ever rest it on the front of the machine. It will twist slightly from the weight and throw everything off on the advance switch unit. Check that it is not askew a bit from the weight of the playfield resting on it. If someone has...it can Throw off the ball or player advance. If that's where it's located. It Could be an easy fix. Just loosen it straighten it and tighten it back up.
So it's making full contact. Not in between
If it's in the head it's probably just sticking, dirty and gummed up and needs cleaning.
Never spray anything in the solenoids to clean them. And NEVER lube them with wd40.

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IMG_20210809_015752 (resized).jpg

While it probably wont make you feel any better, let me say that the single player EM's are the most easiest to troubleshoot. No player unit, no multiple player replays or matches.

You have a schematic - thats very good. Try to isolate the problems, locate the misbehaving circuits at the schematic. If your game resets after each ball, check that the ball count unit moves freely and resets. They are often sprayed with WD40 tens of years ago, and now the magic stuff has dried out and makes the unit stuck.

Before trying to clean or adjust any switches, make sure that the switch stack screws on all units, relays, score reels and score motor are tight. Bakelite spacers tend to shrink over the years, loosening the switches. Then clean only those switches that you suspect are causing problems. Normally the switches have slight follow-up movement of the stationary leaf so they clean themselves automatically.

Read the instructions at pinrepair.com, and try locating a technician with EM knowledge who could lead you through the mechanics and schematic. Dont forget to compensate him/her for the trouble.

Once you get this game working, next one will be much easier!

As for the Spin-A-Card, make sure that the spinner unit is working properly and spinner rotates freely. Otherwise the spin randomizing card selection will not work. If I recall correctly back from over 40 years ago, the is a delay relay that is pulled in while the spinner rotates. There might be a capacitor across that relay coil, which probably needs to be replaced.

Start a thread in the EM tech forum here on pinside with your specific issue. I’ve found that learning as you have issues is much easier than trying to learn everything at once. Instead of learning everything about reading the schematic, try to understand the pieces that relate to the current issue you have.

Do not clean every switch! That's the best way to really go into the weeds. You have a mostly working machine just with a glitch. FWIW it sounds like a switch adjustment is needed on the start relay, specifically the switch that tells the reset sequence to activate.

Cleaning every switch is a recipe for making other things wrong.

Here's his pinside thread:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/spin-a-card-keeps-buzzing

Episode of Andy Griffith where Goober or Gomer couldn't fix the freezer. Andy kept telling her to "Call the man". She didn't and lost all the food.

Translation, you seem to be leaning toward calling a Tech, which may be the best direction if you feel you can't properly do the repair yourself.
Personally I think you can do it.

If you can fix clocks, you can fix an EM.

Read all the links shared here, especially Clay Harrell’s series of electromechanical repair articles on PinRepair.com and the long EM article on PinWiki.

Ask questions here and you will get good advice.

If you really want to understand these games, however, resign yourself to endless hours of puzzlement and frustration. My first breakthrough came after 18 solid hours of troubleshooting a problem in a 4-player game. After that, it gradually became easier. But it only happened with curiosity, patience, and tenacity.

^^^ This.

About as close to 'hands-on' as you can get and usually with a happy errrr outcome!

Clay’s site is pinrepair.com. Lots of information.

Don't give up! Its a learning experience and once you figure out a few things, like how
to read the schematic and understanding how the reset sequence works, you'll
soon become an expert.

Be patient and don't depend too much on the internet 'experts' for anything but the basics.
You'll figure it out.
Steve

For the issue of the score reels resetting you may want to see if the DB relay is resetting when all the score reels reach zero.

around here on the schematic. Sorry your image was a little blurry.

The DB is normally on the relay bank and fires once the game resets. Each reel has a "run out" switch that closes when at zero. I recommend cleaning and making sure they have the correct gap.

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Here are a couple of links for the score reel switches.
http://pinballaustralia.com/gotreel1.htm
http://pinballaustralia.com/gotreel.htm

Hang in there and take it slow. Lots of good advice above. Good luck!

I am very happy to hear that you were able to begin talking to a possible source that can assist. That is great. Last thing you want is to get so frustrated that you just move on to something else as these machines are quite fun when they are working. I say this as I routinely have my local tech come out fir misc problems that just occur. Machine has not been moved, cleaned or even played and yet when I go to turn it on that next time, something is not right and the machine does not work. The old adage is true. If it’s not broken it’s not pinball.

While I completely appreciate all those that have been very encouraging and offering of great information, for some, like myself, I would just prefer to have someone with the right skill set come over and handle the issue. Pinball stays fun for me this way. I loathe having a machine that is not working properly even though mine get precious little use. They have to be right.

Do what you do well and let others do what they do well. Just because you may not have an affinity or desire to learn every aspect of pinball maintenance does not mean anything other than you don’t want to do it all. For those that can I admire you. You can do something I cannot or will not devote the time for do to other commitments or plans. I can do some basic stuff and that is where I knowing it is more involved call “the guy”!! I take pride in what I can do and admire what others can do. Put them both together and my machines are always up to snuff!!

Hey mate ,don’t give up on searching for a repairman ,that’s how I first started understanding how e.m,s work .I found one years ago in a phonebook ,I know phonebooks etc are obsolete now but you might find an old guy still fixing pins & have old ads .