(Topic ID: 73439)

What's the deepest pin you can think of, and why?


By Collin

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 122 posts
  • 76 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Atreyu
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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There are 122 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.
#101 4 years ago
Quoted from PopBumperPete:

Haunted house
Window in the main playfield that shows another playfield deeper inside the machine

Yeah - but Black hole is the same depth...

#102 4 years ago

Hey Atomicboy, did you finish WPT yet?

#103 4 years ago

So Keith was doing WOZ and Hobbit, was he also doing Pat Lawlor #3?

#104 4 years ago
Quoted from lordloss:

So Keith was doing WOZ and Hobbit, was he also doing Pat Lawlor #3?

Do we know the theme of this one?
Thanks

#105 4 years ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

Well I wouldn't go that far. I respect and like Stargate for the most part (other than the 3x super jackpot thing). Hell, I even wrote the community rulesheet for the game. But I wouldn't say it was a direct inspiration. My inspiration generally comes from having played as many games as possible from all eras. Some things are borrowed, some things have a new twist put on them, some things are entirely new...
I can tell you what I LIKE about Stargate in particular: The transporter and its growing pool of possible awards, the drop target rule, multiple wizard awards, double super jackpot awards. And what I don't like: Only possible to do Stargate Multiball once (why??), the 3x (D)SJ bug (makes this the only thing worth going for in the game), most modes fairly uninspired (at least one completely useless). In general I wish the game were clearer about presenting what you were getting and why you were going for it.
The game was clearly an above-average game for the era despite its general typical Gottlieb lack of choreography and presentation. It probably is Gottlieb's best game.
My personal desire for deeper complex rules comes from my own desire to play a game like that. Plus, I like the possibility of there always being a carrot out there for someone to achieve.
What drives me is theme integration (I believe that if you're going to use a theme, then you should go all out and integrate it the best and most complete way possible - otherwise it's just a game with some lunchbox artwork... compare and contrast TZ vs T2 for the 2 opposite ends of the spectrum in integration in the 90s) and making rules that I think are fun and interesting. You can't please everyone, but if you have confidence in what you think is a good time (and you have to have played a LOT of pinball to know this), then you can trust most people will come to your way of thinking... eventually. Seems most of my games tend to be slow burners that people don't really "get" at first but then wind up getting respected later on... WPT seems to be the primary example. I suspect more people will come around on WOZ in the long run as well.
It's a very different philosophy from just getting games out there with a lot of flash and sizzle and and the first whizbang impression of ZOMG this is the best game ever... But all those games are like eating sugar and all of its empty calories, and I think it's only just now that it's finally dawning on people what's going on.

I don't know who you are but you seem to be a great player and i really wonder if you still get pleasure to play a game that you have finished.

Personally what drives me into a game is soundtrack, music, voices, animation sounds, the way you say Jackpooot, etc. I came to pinball with the MM (was the 4th player to make pleasure to a friend and i really didn't care before) and I'm sure that i wouldn't still care today about pinball if i had played on TZ for example! Instantly i had wondered if it was possible to buy one!

#106 4 years ago

There are a ton of modes and things to do on Baywatch. You can systematically work through them and finish them, even being just a so-so player.
Judge Dredd is a great game with a lot of modes, but it's not really that deep. Two whole different coded games, though. That's pretty cool.
AC/DC doesn't seem to be as deep as it is complicated. I don't find Metallica deep at all. I guess that means games have have really well thought out code, without being deep.

For games I play, TSPP is clearly the deepest. It's got a ton of modes, and wizard modes for every single major feature. I've played one or two of them, but never more than one on any single game. I suspect any game Keith did the programming on would be the same. I enjoy modern pins with lots of objectives to shoot for.

#107 4 years ago
Quoted from HoneyBadger:

Hey Atomicboy, did you finish WPT yet?

No... Haven't been playing much lately, trying to enjoy the two weeks of summer before the polar ice cap returns. It's the last of the Keefer trifecta that I haven't got. It's very hard to have a huge game on, but I keep trying!

As with TSPP, it will be one of "those games" where the stars align for one brief time.

1 week later
#108 4 years ago

So has anyone here played High Roller Casino?

While John Trudeau designed the table, Keith Johnson developed the rules for it, and they're nothing short of amazing. If you enjoyed the depth of Stargate I think you'll enjoy this one - there's three wizard modes, a deep Multiball mode, and 4 "Super Modes" that can be stacked with other features such as multiball and the three wizard modes. It's a ton of fun if you haven't played it.

1 month later
#109 4 years ago
Quoted from BestShot31:

I have LOTR and enjoy the challenge.
WPT may be deep, but is it really fun to play too?

Clearly not for me.
WPT seems to be very complex and difficult to learn rules all the more as the atmosphere is a disaster for me and does not entertain you to go foward.
Great and depth rulesheet is fine but need to be clear and as Keith said it needs too to give awards each step you succeed.
It's my conception to play pinball. This is for me the big difference between a TZ and a LOTR.
However, i still wonder How to get valinor. In a game, had destroyed the ring and Got 4 gifts /6. Should have had the 2 left gifts to go to valinor or it is much more complex ?

#110 4 years ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

Clearly not for me.
WPT seems to be very complex and difficult to learn rules all the more as the atmosphere is a disaster for me and does not entertain you to go foward.
Great and depth rulesheet is fine but need to be clear and as Keith said it needs too to give awards each step you succeed.
It's my conception to play pinball. This is for me the big difference between a TZ and a LOTR.
However, i still wonder How to get valinor. In a game, had destroyed the ring and Got 4 gifts /6. Should have had the 2 left gifts to go to valinor or it is much more complex ?

MUCH, much more to do before Valinor. You barely even started...

#111 4 years ago

So, completing 6 elves challenges, destroying the ring...what else?

#112 4 years ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

So, completing 6 elves challenges, destroying the ring...what else?

I was forced to sell mine some time ago, so memory is fuzzy, but you must (I think):

Light all Elf gift wedges, then collect one more.
Complete all three multiball modes.
Complete there and Back Again (or maybe just play through the mode?)
Destroy the Ring
Complete all modes...I think?

Probably more I can't remember

#113 4 years ago

I really liked my LOTR pin even despite the Stern cheapness but I could never get past TABA and it got to be that I didn't bother because I could never see anything more so I sold the game.

#114 4 years ago
Quoted from cody_chunn:

I was forced to sell mine some time ago, so memory is fuzzy, but you must (I think):
Light all Elf gift wedges, then collect one more.
Complete all three multiball modes.
Complete there and Back Again (or maybe just play through the mode?)
Destroy the Ring
Complete all modes...I think?
Probably more I can't remember

According to PAPA:
*Start* all six modes
*Start* TABA
*Complete* all three multimodes
Collect all 7 gifts
After that is done, Destroy the ring

#115 4 years ago

What is TABA? Only need to start elves modes, no completing them?
I can't also remenber what is completing the 3 MB, i didn't play since so long

#116 4 years ago

TABA is there and back again.
3 Multiballs are Fellowship of the Rings, Two Towers, and Return of the King.

From pinball.org:

Gifts of the Elves are valuable awards that the player gets when any mode or
multiball is completed successfully. They are lit at the left orbit and
collected at Barad Dur. Multiple Gifts can be queued up, but only one can
be collected at any time. The six orange inserts near the left orbit
indicate which Gift is ready to be collected (blinking), which ones have
already been collected (lit solid) and which remain to be collected (off).
You can change the flashing Gift by hitting the white target in the back of
The Shire.

So it sounds like you'll have to complete SOME modes, but not all, since you will get 3 gifts for completing the multiballs.

#117 4 years ago

I understood that TABA is there and back again but what it is?
Thanks

#118 4 years ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

I understood that TABA is there and back again but what it is?
Thanks

Start all the Ring modes, then start one more and you are playing TABA. Single ball mode.You shoot the ring for 1M, then a shot lights representing one of the modes. Shoot that shot and you collect all the points that you you scored during that mode. Now shoot the ring again for 1M and move on to the next shot, etc. You only have 60 seconds to try to complete the mode but you can add some time from the Palantir shot. Great mode with outstanding music.

#119 4 years ago

I also enjoy the unique display that goes with it...

4 months later
#120 4 years ago

I did not know that The 3 mb had to be completed. Maybe i have done it, but i can't remenber.
How to complete them please?
Thanks

#121 4 years ago

You'll know when you've completed them, they each have a different bonus "mode" they enter at that point, and you'll hear the "gift from the elves" soundbite.

For the Two Towers multiball, I'm not sure what specifically is necessary (other than hitting lots_ of ramps and loops). Return of the King requires completing all 4 of Legolas/Gandalf/Aragorn/Merry a total of 6 times I think. And Fellowship of the Ring requires hitting Balrog and then either Legolas or Aragorn to "rescue" one of the Fellowship. Do this enough to rescue the entire Fellowship and you'll have beaten that multiball. The saving grace is that these are cumulative, so your progress isn't lost when you start another round of the same multiball later in the game.

Having said all this, I've never gotten to Valinor, though I've completed all the tasks.

#122 4 years ago

I wish I have had more time with LOTR, but unfortunately, there is not one on route around me (closest one is about an hour away).

Back to the original topic... Keep in mind I don't have as much experience as many others on this thread, much less pinside as a whole, but I consider deepness a variety of mode objectives that encourage different shots from the player to keep them from just making the same shot again. I loved TAF for its variety, but then when I realized that just shooting chair stair chair stair over and over would get to the wizard mode quickly and easily (and rack up a decent amount of points in the meantime), it fell a bit flat. I still enjoy the game, but it is not as deep as I originally thought.

Another game that I have not had much of a chance to play, but really enjoyed and was very unique, was Dark Knight. The shots are really varied and each of the modes really encourage players to explore the entire playfield IMO. Like I said, I have not played all that much, so there very well may be a simple way to rack up points outside of modes that I am not aware of, but from what I saw, there is quite a variety of things you'd have to complete before reaching a wizard mode.

Also, somebody back towards the beginning of the thread asked if there were any particularly deep Sega/DE games. Many of them boil down to doing a single shot over and over (see Batman DE. Flugelheim all the way home!). But I've been having a ton of fun with TFTC. There are a good amount of shots and there is a huge variety in the plethora of modes it offers. It's difficult to make it through all of the modes successfully IMO. While there is not much in the way of deep understanding of rules, it offers quite a variety of things you need to do.

Finally, when it comes to Bally/Williams games, I like BSD. This is not a game that is full of varied modes, but understanding the multiball progression and being able to stack all three multiballs is essential in blowing this machine up. Completing this successfully requires understanding of the machine and is not something that would generally be stumbled upon by accident.

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