(Topic ID: 198884)

What's the deal with Prototypes and Whitewoods?


By pinmister

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 19 posts
  • 13 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by chad
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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    Topic poll

    “Are Prototype or Whitewood pinball machines worth an extra premium?”

    • Yes they are rare and part of the historic design process and should be valued higher than a standard machine 25 votes
      42%
    • No they are often incomplete and do not deserve to have a premium added over a standard machine 21 votes
      36%
    • I like ham hocks 13 votes
      22%

    (59 votes by 0 Pinsiders)

    Topic Gallery

    There have been 5 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

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    #1 2 years ago

    Do you think a Prototype or Whitewood machine deserves to have a premium added to the pricing? Do collectors seek out these rare machines? Just curious what your thoughts on this are?

    #2 2 years ago

    Everything is only worth what someone is willing to pay. Whitewoods and prototypes are valuable to people who primarily collect as opposed to players. I have my RFM whitewood #1 and think it's absolutely awesome to look at and show off. But it's not worth a thing to someone who enjoys playing pinball since it will never flip again in it's life.

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    #3 2 years ago

    I agree that they should be held higher in value for the most part. The times when I don't think they do is when there missing all the artwork on the whitewood (hence the name I know) as they seem to be pretty blah at that point. There were two at PATZ this past year, Indy 500 and Scarred Stiff I wanna say...? The artwork was drawn on in marker and while interesting to look at for a minute but certainly not space worthy in a collection if you ask me.
    I don't know what became of them as it seemed to be a secret who owned them and if they were for sale or what was going on with them.....nobody seemed to know, they just sorta showed up and left unnoticed I guess?

    John

    #4 2 years ago

    In general, I've found they aren't worth a whole lot unless they are for a rare game, a crazy popular game, a game with a wild departure from the production version, or a game that was never produced (like Lazer Lord, to name a recent title to surface).

    A flipping whitewood for TAF, for instance, could probably go for a fair amount.

    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.games.pinball/_7oBEfWSBeM

    On the other hand, a few months ago, a flipping whitewood for a Lord of the Rings went for half of what a production version typically goes for.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lotr-ww-for-sale

    It really depends on what a collector is looking for.

    There's not much you can really do with a non-working whitewood,especially if you can't make a working game out of it. Sometimes you can adapt it to work with production code, but it the playfield departs too much from the production version, you're basically out of luck and have to write your own code with a P-ROC/FAST system in place. Not everyone wants to take on a project like that.

    #5 2 years ago

    Prototypes are one thing, but whitewoods are something completely different. I have several prototype games that play fantastically and I would value higher than their production counterparts due to items on the game they removed for production. Often times they're just artwork differences, for the most part. So it's nothing too drastic and usually people don't even realize they're playing a prototype game.

    Whitewoods, on the other hand, I value only for their value as a development tool. All the ones I've played either didn't play well or were missing so much in terms of design or code they kind of left you frustrated. I mean to have a whitewood is a piece of history and would be cool as a display, but that's about it. When I see a whitewood I see the vision the designer had and the direction he was going and then note what stayed in the game and what was deleted. I certainly wouldn't pay a premium for one.

    #6 2 years ago

    Whitewoods are great in a collection. I currently have the Whitewood for Gamatron and Andromeda and both working original games of those also. Excellent show pieces. Having both at 2018 TPF this year and the production game. Paying a premium really depends on the game and how much you want the unit. The Lazerlord being an original that was on here a few weeks back is the only working version of that playfield. Quite a piece and would be great in a collection.

    #7 2 years ago
    Quoted from NJGecko:

    Everything is only worth what someone is willing to pay

    I agree value is in the eye of the beholder

    Quoted from schudel5:

    I have several prototype games that play fantastically and I would value higher than their production counterparts due to items on the game they removed for production.

    I am interested in your prototype games and what extras they have that make them different. Can you elaborate for us?

    People also talk about sample games and games with low certificate numbers. Do people seek out games that are samples or low certificate numbers? If so-why?

    #8 2 years ago

    It really depends on the game.

    In some cases they are worth much less. Example of the whitewood Andromeda. It was cool to see it pop back up but sold for less than standard versions sell for. I attribute this to the fact that standard Andromeda has such great art that a whitewood takes away one fo the bets feaftures of the game. I think that whitewood has an additional feature of an extra drop, but it does not add to the game. A game liek this is already very rare so a sample/whitewood is not all that much more rare in relative comparison.

    In other cases they are worth more. Example of TZ or other popular games where prototype often have added art and features, are still full featured, and in fact more rare than a large production run.

    It really just depends.

    There are some sample/proto games I would love to own and pay extra for.

    There are others I have been offered for less and have passed on.

    #9 2 years ago
    Quoted from pinmister:

    I am interested in your prototype games and what extras they have that make them different. Can you elaborate for us?

    Scared Stiff with glow in the dark bones, different playfield and cabinet artwork, factory eyeball shooter rod, prototype arch with different artwork and left kickback cutout and all red boards.

    Cirqus Voltaire with different ringmaster voice software, skinny ringmaster head, different playfield artwork.

    Ticket-Tac-toe with different color playfields, installed in standard Safecracker cabinet with legs, gumball dispenser with gumball software.

    #10 2 years ago

    I'd pay a premium for the Cactus Canyon with the working saloon doors

    1 week later
    #11 2 years ago
    Quoted from schudel5:

    Scared Stiff with glow in the dark bones, different playfield and cabinet artwork, factory eyeball shooter rod, prototype arch with different artwork and left kickback cutout and all red boards.

    Wow sounds like the differences on your SS are substantial and would justify a premium added
    Also if you can I would like to see some pics of the different artwork- I love stuff like that!

    Quoted from patrickvc:

    I'd pay a premium for the Cactus Canyon with the working saloon doors

    I would probably pay a premium as well, especially if it had a feature that affects game play.

    I really still think it all comes down to condition. Condition is king, but if there was a proto/sample in collector quality condition, I would pay a premium for it over a standard cq machine. The extra amount I would be willing to spend would probably be marginal-maybe couple hundred extra?

    #12 2 years ago

    Some early samples fall into this category as well. TZ is famous for the early sample runs that had many extras that were removed during the full production run as well as changes in artwork, plastics, etc.: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sample-tz

    #13 2 years ago

    I have a Police Force Prototype in pristine condition, is that worth anything? Has over a dozen differences that I can see.

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    #14 2 years ago
    Quoted from RetroToys:

    Has over a dozen differences that I can see.

    what are the differences?

    #15 2 years ago

    Whitewoods are worth a lot less than a normal game to me.

    #16 2 years ago

    1) It has about 12 red circuit boards in it. It has them under the play field for the lights, inside of the moving police car, behind the jail on the play field, on the optic sensor in the shooter

    2) misprints on playfield

    3) car is different

    4) opto spinner is different

    5) hand written tags throughout

    6) prototype chips in it

    7) about a dozen more bulbs in the back box

    plastic sets differ in color

    9) lacks stickers on drop targets

    10) pop bumper caps are completely different

    #17 2 years ago

    Seems to me that the value of a whitewood is also tied to the mystique and collectability of the finished game.

    4 weeks later
    #18 2 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    It really depends on the game.
    In some cases they are worth much less. Example of the whitewood Andromeda. It was cool to see it pop back up but sold for less than standard versions sell for. I attribute this to the fact that standard Andromeda has such great art that a whitewood takes away one fo the bets feaftures of the game. I think that whitewood has an additional feature of an extra drop, but it does not add to the game. A game liek this is already very rare so a sample/whitewood is not all that much more rare in relative comparison.
    In other cases they are worth more. Example of TZ or other popular games where prototype often have added art and features, are still full featured, and in fact more rare than a large production run.
    It really just depends.
    There are some sample/proto games I would love to own and pay extra for.
    There are others I have been offered for less and have passed on.

    I have 2 WW's for Gamatron and Andromeda. Having the working example next to the WW's is a great way to show them off and yes does offer a lot of value to the experience and also in value if I were to sell. I would sell both of the games. Have the Gamatron that was Steve Kirks is also a plus and the Andromeda has some of Roger Sharpe involvement where as the original did not. Again great pieces of history.

    #19 2 years ago

    I have always liked the whitewood games. Seeing the raw details and any stickers or hand written notes is cool. I had the Star. Ship Troopers whitewood posted here some years back it sold. I have the frankenstiened X Files game signed and a Freddy game as well.

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