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(Topic ID: 92448)

What's FS in Maryland,Va,DC,Pa,De right now ? Md and surrounding area FS Thread.

By stretch2

6 years ago

Topic Stats

  • 12,789 posts
  • 744 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 day ago by LilRocky
  • Topic is favorited by 405 Pinsiders


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#23 6 years ago

I like the region-centric nature of this thread!

Mid-Atlantic Pinball Dominance!

At some point I'm going to be in the market for an ACDC Prem... not quite yet...

#31 6 years ago
Quoted from westofrome:

Any news on a location, 27dnast?
I just picked up a JM in trade for my NBAFB and am loving it...

I'm slow as molasses apparently. Capital City Pinball, LLC is formed. I've 4 games... ST Pro, JackBot, WWF RR, and Big Hurt. 2 are location ready... 2 almost are there...and a 5th (Monday Night Football) as a project.

I've been really busy for the last 3 1/2 weeks, and have hit a bit of a wall on securing insurance. Had about 8 or 9 No's... yesterday got a quote that is about double what I expect. So, I'm hoping to be knocking on doors in about 2 weeks.

#32 6 years ago
Quoted from westofrome:

Any news on a location, 27dnast?
I just picked up a JM in trade for my NBAFB and am loving it...

JM is such a sweet game... it just reveals more and more as you peel it back! Congrats!

#52 6 years ago
Quoted from dmesserly:

AC/DC premium HUO. Perfect shape, built late 2012 with clear window. Upgraded speakers, TNT plunger mod, cannon flasher mod, ramp stickers, pin bits lightning mod. Also has new mod covering band made by lasermel, it's really cool.
Located in Sterling, VA area. Looking for 5750.

I'd love to take that off your hands, but the timing just isn't right. Too many new machines in the last few months. .....

#63 6 years ago

I'm poking around for a TFTC. Possibly for a trade.

1 month later
#135 6 years ago

Still looking for a nice TFTC.

#145 6 years ago
Quoted from Jesterfunhouse:

Hey Todd I found a TFTC for you. I speak spanish if that is any help...


2 months later
#252 6 years ago
Quoted from ShootForSlrValue:

Missed my chance on an F14 the other day. Still looking for one! Doesn't need to be a CQ example by any means. Also, Skeeb is a good seller and an even better guy. That example plays very well, actually.

Checkout the coinop doc... he has one... you can usually bargain with him.

1 month later
#295 5 years ago

WCS is a funny one because the plastic are really hard to find.

I'd agree...on this particular game, $1200 seems more in line. Too many variables to deal with

#296 5 years ago

Anyone have a Met Premium (or know of a Met Prem) that might be looking to move?

1 week later
#313 5 years ago

Looking into WOZ.

Any sellers in the MD/DC/VA area?

2 months later
#446 5 years ago
Quoted from Turboghia:

Selling my rare Addams Family Generator which would look amazing next to a AF pin. It is in working condition minus the smoker unit. Includes the working backlit topper (cracked and glued). I purchased this non-working and have put a lot of hours in it getting it up and running. The smoker unit appears to be the same as a model trains. The printer works and I installed a new printer ribbon. The light sockets on the lower marquee work but they are burnt out and take 12v bulbs. I can put a few pin bulbs in to show that the socket are good but they will burnt out very quick.
$800 cash FIRM (I could part it out for more).
Post edited by Turboghia: added information

afg2.jpg 345 KB

Did you buy this from COW in Hagerstown a few years ago? What are the dimensions?

3 weeks later
#503 5 years ago

Have a WWF RR up for sale. PM me if interested.

********Game is SOLD********

#511 5 years ago
Quoted from MAJRob:

Todd is a kick ass seller! Whatever description that he says and states Will be much better than that in person. Buy with confidence and take the opportunity to just meet a great guy!

Thanks Rob!

#513 5 years ago

^^^Are you looking to swap what I think you're looking to swap??

#525 5 years ago
Quoted from Jesterfunhouse:

Who has some System 11 machines they are looking to move?

Coinopwarehouse has a Diner, I believe. it has been sitting for a week...Lloyd might take a deal?

#529 5 years ago

If it sits long enough, you can talk him down. His prices are definitely up.

#535 5 years ago
Quoted from Tylert:

I work at the Baltimore Children's Museum and we are trying to acquire a solid state pinball machine for less than $700. If anyone has anything in the area we would love to take a look at it. Please PM me if you have any information. Thank you!

That's a tough order. Time to find a Shaq Attack

3 weeks later
#687 5 years ago
Quoted from PoMC:

I saw that $400 TFTC also and was considering stopping by to check it out. I'm going to NJ tomorrow for a funeral and I pass through DE, but this is on the east coast of Delaware and too far from I95.

Definitely report back...

#689 5 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

I tried contacting the tftc guy many times and probably was the first to try as I was up when add first posted but have yet to here back but im not really worried that much as I already am working on my Fish Tales project and really dont have any data east parts on hand and dont really care for the game but hard pass up at 400 lol

At 400, you'd have to assume the game is either a complete disaster OR has already walked...

#693 5 years ago
Quoted from PoMC:

For $400 it's worth it in parts. Door handle if complete and shaker would get the $400 back. I was just considering it for the Tales I'm shopping for Mike right now since his needs the handle's thumb latch and I could use the shaker in my Baywatch.
But just too far out of the way for me to bother to veer off my course.

Can you take some pics when you're done with the shop-out?

#702 5 years ago

Wish I had a Met to trade!

3 months later
#1007 5 years ago
Quoted from stretch2:

I have a nice MB with New Decals ,Clear Coated Playfield,Leds, New legs,and New Lockdown Bar.
Located in Baltimore, Maryland.
Pm me if interested .

Aww man... this game has always been on my wish list. I'm not even sure I want to ask what you're looking for out of it

1 week later
#1058 5 years ago
Quoted from stretch2:

I have a Kiss Pro NOB(New out of Box) still not unwrapped, that I would prefer to sell to a local Pinsider .This could save the Buyer shipping and some $$ off most Distro prices.
Located in Baltimore, Maryland.

You've gotta play it!!!

1 month later
1 week later
#1436 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

Is a trade Shelly's Frankenstein for GoldenEye a fair deal? GoldenEye has MirrorBlades, works 100%, LED's, Satellite mod (grey looks like an actual satellite dish), very clean machine.........thinking about it.........

Sounds fair

4 months later
#2534 4 years ago
Quoted from MrWizzo:

AFM sold tonight for asking price of $7500.
All that is left now is THE SHADOW.

I'd love to buy that shadow...the timing just isn't right...

#2546 4 years ago

What happened to Gregg's account? Frozen???

#2549 4 years ago

Ok then... Wow. Not really sure what to say about that one.

#2553 4 years ago
Quoted from billsfanmd:

Never met him but he offered me his TZ for 9k

I sold him a WWFRR on craigs last Jan/Feb. Seemed like a nice guy - deal was easy and everything went smoothly. Haven't seen him since... did inquire about his WCS94, but the timing just isn't right.

#2559 4 years ago
Quoted from PoMC:

That's why anything I list for sale in the marketplace will not have a discussion thread. Too many assholes will make dumb comments and they're not even a potential buyer.

+1 on that

#2560 4 years ago

I'd love to see a DC/Baltimore metro "good guy" email chain... somewhere locals could float things first among collectors/players that are known to be good to go and reliable.

#2688 4 years ago

This used to be my favorite thread on Pinside...

Now it's stuffed with drama.

Come guys ... Let's get it back on track

#2715 4 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

No bickering. I asked a fair question and somebody took offense. That's not my problem.
And yes...I've squirted little girls with a garden hose.
Back to selling stuff!

Looks beautiful!

1 month later
#3227 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

After much debate I'm listing my beautiful single owner STLE

I've played this pin... absolutely beautiful. Heck of nice guy (seller) to boot!

#3230 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Thanks, nothing wrong with the game but I just don't love it, I sold SM last year so maybe there's something wrong with me. It's the nicest looking pin in my collection.

No need to explain. Hope it sells quick

1 week later
#3290 4 years ago
Quoted from mbelofsky:

I might get a Funhouse. Overall looks good. Batteries corroded. Trap door needs to be fixed. Looking for $3,400 as is. I'll post it for sale once I get it but want to see if there is any interest. Pickup only on Purcellville Virginia


Is this the one that Lloyd just sold on CoinopWarehouse FB??

2 weeks later
#3379 4 years ago

Going to float my original IM for trade (possibly cash)... Intrests: WCS, Taxi, WH20, CFTBL, Maybe RS... Game was very lightly routed at one time, playfield is gorgeous. Flipper wear and one head scuff. Strip shopped in last year, new black rubbers, ramp cliffy, plastic protectors throughout, all color match NG LED, new magnet cores, shaker, FF woofer, Monger flasher mod, battle zone mod, EL whips, war machine cannon LED light and extra gun on back, target decals, speaker lights, external volume (which I may keep), color flashers for war and whip... Currently has new red DMD, but think I'll put original orange in and keep red. Probably some more. Picts not available at moment.

One of those situations where I'll dive for the right deal, but not desperate.

Also have a complete NOS plastic set minus the plastic around War Machine (which was installed in game to replace broken plastic), original cards, and the original war machine figure. All but plastics would be in sale/trade. Plastic set is going to be extra add on or kept/sold separately.

Have owned for a little more than a year - tons of fun to play. Bought from BillsFanMD - all shop and mods I did myself.

Shoot me a pm if interested. Local within reason. Thx!

2 weeks later
#3458 4 years ago

IM for sale $4300 or trade: looking for White Water or Taxi. Have cash to add for both.

3 weeks later
#3557 4 years ago
Quoted from PoMC:

Never bought NIB, so wasn't sure what a good price was delivered, etc. Who could I order from at that price?

It's going to be a lot harder to find them for $4800 shipped these days (with Stern's new policy).

#3561 4 years ago
Quoted from mbelofsky:

I emailed eith the owner of the game and she asked me to lower the price to $5,300.I emailed eith the owner of the game and she asked me to lower the price to $5,300.

Good price on an awesome game

#3567 4 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Thinking of possibly selling or trading my acdc luci. Its absolutely perfect and loaded with just about every nice mod u wld want and then some. Love the pin but its very difficult even compared to my bsd. Twdp. Imve. Im interested in b/w pins i haven't owned and also GB premium / le /pro. Also other stern titles. If interested let me know what you have for trade . If i cant find anything for trade i may sell outright .

Don't do it... keep it and unlock'er!

#3571 4 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Yea i love everything about it shots, lights, music, animations and looks. Maybe if someone came by and gave me some pointers and i watch them play it wld help. Definitely no luci like this has ever popped up its pretty awesome with the trc mod with stt cannon, powder coated metal apron with interactive lighting , color dmd , topper and so on and so on the mod list goes lol.

Start with Rosie or Shook me all night (those immediately light shots that build song jackpot right away). Plunge all the way...get the single skill shot (locks in one pass)...then start hitting ramps...get some multi balls going. Hit the bell a few times... then switch to Hells Bells. Rinse, repeat, work on collecting FIRE lanes...get cannon primed, light 3X playfield...hit the cannon...and're in the money. You'll have a ridiculous jackpot waiting for you.

I'm probably glossing over a few things...can't quite explain all of the ins and outs...but it works...and when it does, the machine blows up.


#3573 4 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

ease up the outlanes a bit till you get used to it. I'm telling you.. the first time you get that monster 3x song jackpot you'll be hootin and holler'in.
AC/DC is not as hectic as Metallica when things start stacking.. but you'll feel that pressure of cashing in that big song jackpot while that multiplier is flashing at you.

You blow the's devastating!

#3575 4 years ago

That's ALWAYS the way it is.

#3601 4 years ago
Quoted from Skyemont:

Thinking about selling my TZ for a RRWOZ. Would you do it?

No question. Yes

#3640 4 years ago

The elusive Bridge of Pinbot. None of none made.

#3642 4 years ago
Quoted from Skyemont:

Maybe that could be Pat's new game.

We'll find out in 2019.

1 month later
#3847 4 years ago
Quoted from Jesterfunhouse:

I just posted my freshly shopped out Whirlwind for sale $2400. I was able to track down all of the parts to get all NOS parts for Topper and Fan. It also has the hard (Sold out) BLUE LED display purchased new as are all the new parts listed in the ad.

Looking good Steve!

Sure miss the WW I once owned... great Sys 11.

#3848 4 years ago

Still poking around for a pls

1 week later
#3895 4 years ago

Hey! Taxi!


1 week later
#3946 4 years ago

What are looking to trade?

#3965 4 years ago
Quoted from per3per3:

New pros are selling for $5600 and premiums for $7100...

NIB Stern Pros are not $5600... they are south of $5K

#3969 4 years ago
Quoted from per3per3:

I just checked prices at 5 different distributors' websites as well as confirmed the prices currently on the pinside market, and NIB pros are selling for $5495 and premiums for $7095.

Those are MSRP prices... you have to call to get a price. I've actively heard (read: recent) other collectors fetching offers between $4700-$4900 shipped to door.

As for mods, they can certainly add some value, but it really depends on what they are. Color DMD is pretty much something that you can ask near full price for (or, alternatively, pull it and keep it for a future game). Other mods, however, are catch as catch can. There are some ACDC mods (for example) that are worth more now than when they were new (they add to the game experience and are no longer available)... the walking dead prison tower is another example. It's tough to find right now and isn't currently being made (Marco just sold its final 3 towers for $50 over the original price). Other mods, like cab lights, etc, are sunken money...the same can almost be said for LED conversion.

Not trying to bust your chops... your game, stock, isn't worth the $4800 or $4900 that a NIB stock game is worth because the NIB games are still available. If those games were no longer available and the market was hot for the title, then, yes, value might be more. So, I think you're starting point might be a tad high. I could be completely wrong on this, but that's what my gut is telling me!

#3971 4 years ago
Quoted from nocreditdot:

Selling a nice Marilyn taxi. The is a very nice example. It has a nice original playfield. New ramps, plastics, plastic protectors, new Marilyn cpr mirrored backglass, new target decals, new topper, and a very nice original cabinet. The game plays fast and right. 2600 cash on pickup.
Pm me with questions. Will be listing in the market soon. No trades need space

oh, this is killing me. I want a taxi something fierce...but this is just too far out of my range.

#3975 4 years ago
Quoted from nocreditdot:

Sale pending thanks

#4000 4 years ago
Quoted from dmesserly:

AC/DC premium HUO. Perfect shape, built late 2012 with clear window. Upgraded speakers, TNT plunger mod, cannon flasher mod, ramp stickers, pin bits lightning mod. Also has new mod covering band made by lasermel, it's really cool.
Located in Sterling, VA area. Looking for 5750.

Holy crap! Did you mean 7550 or 5750?

I have seen one of these go for under 6700 all year!

#4003 4 years ago

Oops. Sorry guys. Victim of the iPhone.

Little embarrassed....

#4005 4 years ago

Maybe I'll just become "that guy" that digs up super old threads and critiques pricing.

#4034 4 years ago

I think, these days, right around 2K +/- is what you want to pay for a good one

#4052 4 years ago
Quoted from weaverj:

seems like fair priced pins are hard to find lately. any leads on used golden tee pedestals?

I would love to have one... Coin Op Warehouse had one come in (untested) and I believe they were asking $1700 for just the pedestal.

#4081 4 years ago
Quoted from twoplays25c:

Check out CL, under Harrisburg or Cumberland Valley.
Serendipity Antiques & Flea Market did have a Taxi for about $1895, in not too bad condition as I recall.
I believe it's been sitting there awhile - might be able to get it for about $200 less, via cash sale.
Good luck!

They sold it on Monday. DOH!!!!!!


Back to the drawing board. Sure would like to find a TAXI around the Maryland area!

#4092 4 years ago

Steve, you'll be happy to know that the World's Largest Ball of Yarn (Kansas) is still open...


#4094 4 years ago

#4106 4 years ago
Quoted from billsfanmd:

Gwaxt72, Rob , is picking up a bunch of pins today. I'll see if I can get him to list them here. Has a great local delivery guy too

Any TAXIs? He said he keep his eye out for me...

#4117 4 years ago
Quoted from jints56:

Lol. I don't see it going anywhere soon. Besides, the original owner requested first dibs if I do sell. Great game!

Keep me in mind if it does look like it will move!

#4126 4 years ago
Quoted from billsfanmd:

A friend has a beautiful RBION in Gaithersburg, MD. thinking around 3500. Full LEDs and shopped recently. He's just shifting to mostly stems. Pm me for more info.

Is 3500 the going rate for a RBION these days?

#4194 4 years ago
Quoted from doughslingers:

The ever so rare and popular ACDC Luci for sale. Priced below 10k at 9500 with local delivery of up to 300 miles INCLUDED in price to make sure this exotic rate piece of playable artwork arrives in one piece with no damage.
Has shaker motor and some other tasteful mods. This is the real deal and what a looker.
Marketplace advertisement going up soon as well as Mr Pinball but giving all my regional friends a first chance. Thanks for looking

Beautiful game... spent hours on playing ACDC this weekend...what a thrill ride!

1 week later
#4292 4 years ago
Quoted from billsfanmd:

Unfortunately, we now live in a time when we want free shipping, free music, buy one get one and free websites. Its just not realistic to always get something for nothing.

This is so true. I see no problem with paying Pinside a small fee. It's a drop in the bucket for providing a service on their site.

The above sentiment is right. People believe they are entitled to free material - stolen or not - just because.

That's not how the normal world works.

#4315 4 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Is it ok to mention i maybe selling my collection of beautiful loaded pins?


1 week later
#4435 4 years ago


I listed this prior to the last Allentown for a few days... got sellers remorse and pulled it. Too bad because I got a great cash/trade offer after (but, am glad I got to keep the pin just a bit longer... really love playing this one). Anyhow, it's back up for sale... originally bought this from BillsfanMD for little less than my asking price...and then added a ton of stuff to it.

Great pin and good price for a rock solid IM

Archived after 1 day
Sold (amount unknown)
Contributed to Pinside
Machine - For Sale
Fully shopped/refurbished “ITEM DESCRIPTION For Sale (or trade Taxi + cash), Stern Iron Man Pro. $4.3K The good: Playfield in gorgeous condition, strip-shopped last year (top and bottom, including new magn...”
Gaithersburg, MD
4,300 (Firm)

#4442 4 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

I listed this prior to the last Allentown for a few days... got sellers remorse and pulled it. Too bad because I got a great cash/trade offer after (but, am glad I got to keep the pin just a bit longer... really love playing this one). Anyhow, it's back up for sale... originally bought this from BillsfanMD for little less than my asking price...and then added a ton of stuff to it.
Great pin and good price for a rock solid IM
machinefor salePlaced 2016-08-22 14:36 (today)For sale: Iron Man (Stern, 2010) “ITEM DESCRIPTION
For Sale (or trade Taxi + cash), Stern Iron Man Pro. $4.3K

The good: Playfield in gorgeous condition, strip-sho...” $ 4,300 (Firm) 27dnast Gaithersburg, MD Shopped

Game is sold

#4476 4 years ago

Whoa - 7k for a HUO WOZ.

That's well below market, IMO. My #1 or #2 favorite game... That's a steal

#4527 4 years ago

Taxi...found. Finally!

#4532 4 years ago
Quoted from PoMC:

The modded Johnny is really cool, great audio now with the Pinsound!
That topper, while looking badass, just throws WAY too much reflection down on the playfield to see the ball. Last night I had to tape some paper to the translite of a new game I picked up because it caused to much glare on the PF.

That's a steal for Johnny... one of my fav games of the 90's...

1 week later
#4580 4 years ago

I need to meet this guy (paul). Probably lives within 5 min drive?

#4585 4 years ago
Quoted from houseofpin:

27 nast....Paul lives 5 minutes (if that) from Shady Grove Hospital.....

Probably about 2 miles from my home

4 weeks later
#4768 3 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

Was in York.
I honestly didn't care for it at all.
Didn't even have the desire to finish 1 game.
For some odd reason I found the thick metal around the playfield really distracting.
Machine was just odd to me. Didn't enjoy it at all.

I had the same reaction when I played it at Allentown. Played a few games and the machine did absolutely nothing for me.

#4769 3 years ago
Quoted from Jesterfunhouse:

1. Not only have I been waiting for it I was hoping everyone posted there Ravens for sale right now!!!!!!
2.I know "FB" this is not the most sought after game when I bought it but I also know there are plenty of ZIMYJOEY out there that want this as there first pin or part of a large collection etc. ITS ALL GOOD(I may even mod it with a boat anchor to increase the value)!!!!!! LOVE YOU GUYS!!!!!! (PS THUMBS UP FROM ME ALSO "FB" LOL)

Steve - if you can make an alt-translite for that machine, you'll be come a king in the pinball world!

#4774 3 years ago
Quoted from n0s4atu:

Hey guys, haven't been around in forever and with the changes to this forum, hopefully I'm not violating any rules by asking, but we're likely moving to Orlando because of work and I'm thinking about selling the 3 pins I've got rather than taking them with us. Unfortunately, we just don't play them much and there are no basements in Orlando so space will be at a premium I fear.
So, before I list them, I was hoping I could get some ball park numbers on pricing, so I don't over or under price them.
TWD LE, with Topper, PDI glass, side art, a few lighting things here and there, bloody armor and while I have no idea how many plays, it's not many and I am the only owner.
MET Road Case with Monsters Translite, side art, many PR lighting mods, lollipop side rails, black and white jail house Sparky (and original in my office). Again I bought this new as wel and again has very low plays.
BSD, black armor, topper, side decals, decent enough playfield with minor planking and poor touch up job done by the place I bought it from. Oh and it'll come with a NOS playfield, so that when you shop it out, you can have a perfect playfield.
Randomly, I just posted a pic of all 3 side by side in my game room in the "let's see pics of game rooms!" thread.

I'm thinking your TWD is probably going to end up fetching around $7500
Met - no idea
BSD - There's one on pinside right now sitting at $2600... I'd hazard to guess that BSD is generally selling in the $2500-$3000 range. Playfield, if NOS, could be worth $1K+

#4822 3 years ago


#4834 3 years ago

When was the last time a Spirit came up for sale in MD?

#4853 3 years ago

Are the BOP kits still for sale?

2 weeks later
#5047 3 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Got a mint huo one owner walking dead premium i bought nib earlier this year. Has bunch of upgrades/mods like shaker,el fence, all cliffys, pinblades, bunch of other pinball refinery mods and other stuff. I'm looking to trade for a Scared stiff number one but also possibly in cv, totan, mm,tom , jy, ngg and plus or minus cash depending on the deal.

Wow. I'm surprised to see this for sale

#5056 3 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Not really for sale just wld trade for the right deal .

Only meant that you'd be willing to let it go... seems like this was the "it" game for you. That's all! Good luck with the trade

#5061 3 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Can you both wait 8 years till my kids are out of college so I can go back to buying my toys? I want both of these. K thx bye

I feel your pain.

#5062 3 years ago
Quoted from PoMC:

Hey Steve, today's your lucky day. Someone is actually LOOKING for a Raven. link

It's like hitting the lottery and getting struck by lightning at the same time!

1 week later
#5099 3 years ago
Quoted from ryandimx:

Gettysburg auction results for anyone interested. Condition was all over the place.
BttF 1400
Whirlwind 950
Demo man 1900
Spy hunter 750
Doodle Bug 250
Blue chip 325
Taxi 1100
Kings of steel 450
Meteor 600
Black belt 450
Soccer 175
Road kings 550
F14 1000
Monday night football 450
Future spa 400
Fun fest 175
Royal flush 400
Flintstones 1300
Rescue 911 550
Time zone 225
Ngg 3500
Corvette 2200
New York 450
Showtime 250
Space shuttle 1000
F14 800
Twister 1100
Rbion 1800
Roadshow 1800
Vpin 1200
Addams 4600
Dipsy doodle
Pharoah 325

Thx for posting this... off the top of your head, were there any steals?

1 week later
#5212 3 years ago
Quoted from Jesterfunhouse:

Hey POMC I love you

Hey Jester... what about the rest of us?

#5217 3 years ago
Quoted from Jesterfunhouse:

Start liking your home team the Nationals and then I will share some of the love....

You have no idea how serious I am when I type this...but...


#5219 3 years ago
Quoted from Wolfanoz:

No, he's secretly a Yankees fan.

Pinside drama about to begin in 3....2...1...

#5226 3 years ago
Quoted from Jesterfunhouse:

Down Voted! Traitor LMAO

I'd be jealous if I were you, too. It's okay, though...I forgive you!

#5228 3 years ago
Quoted from Jesterfunhouse:

Who wants to buy my "Boat Anchor" for $650! Raven as as they come!

I thought you had that sold?

#5259 3 years ago
Quoted from PoMC:

I'm interested in a routed Mustang Pro or one needing a full shop job, if anyone has one.

Great game

1 week later
#5318 3 years ago
Quoted from Jesterfunhouse:

Hey everyone. It was my pleasure to sell a few parts to "Turtle". I have never met him but in dealing with him I would do it again! If you ever need to buy/sell with him he was great to deal with and the transaction could not have been better.

There you go again, Steve! How about spreading the love around a little more!

#5329 3 years ago
Quoted from Jesterfunhouse:

Here you go MR. "I never buy Jesterfunhouse machines or parts because he roots for my home team"...
LOVE IT! (Another Down-vote for you!)

Yeah.... ah... no. Probably won't make you happy to hear that my better half is from Philly. When it comes to the national league, Phillies all the way.

#5331 3 years ago
Quoted from Jesterfunhouse:

I am scared to know what football teams you chear for...

too bad for you... you're missing out on one cool franchise. Best stadium in all of baseball... right in your backyard. But, each to their own...

#5339 3 years ago
Quoted from Jesterfunhouse:

In full disclosure I really have no hate for the Orioles in fact they are my AL team and my second baseball love. Too many wonderful memories growing up going to games at both Memorial and Camden yards. We grow up total Orioles fans and only changed over to the Nationals when they moved back to town. A big reason is my Mom and her family were huge Senator fans and has many memories going to games with her Father and Sisters in the 50 and 60's. My Son just got married and his Dad is a huge Orioles fan and although he never enjoyed baseball that much growing up he loves watching and going to games with his now Father in law.
Can we be friends again ... Sorry for hijacking this thread on baseball...

Did we stop being friends?

#5340 3 years ago
Quoted from Jesterfunhouse:

Hello Everyone FYI I have not posted this anywhere but I just finished shopping out a Williams DEMO Man (DM) with clear plastic posts and clear Titan competition rings, with Cool White mostly playfield lights. It looks really sweet with all of the metal ramps. Too bad I can't post pictures here. It has a normal display with three lines out on the bottom so not real noticable. I was going to post it for $2500 but I would sell it to anyone on this Thread for only $2300! or $2500 with new DMD! or $2800 if you want a COLOR DMD installed!
PM me for details and pics. I still have some things to finish up but it should be good to go hopefully by this weekend but definitely before Christmas if you want Display upgrades. NOW TIME FOR TODD "Mr Baseball" to show the LOVE!!!

If you had $2300 to let me borrow (AND built an addition onto my home), I would be all over this.

#5372 3 years ago
Quoted from zimjoe:

Man that would look good next to my Raven; I love the 80b games. I already have 3 and I'm thinking the DMD machines have got to go to make more room.
If that center ramp looks good that should be an easy flip. GLWTS!
TNT video showing how fun it is, you're welcome.
» YouTube video

Reminds me of Game of Thrones LE in some ways

#5397 3 years ago
Quoted from megalo17:

Let's say a man was considering buying a NIB Stern. I've heard that cash in hand will get you a discount. Does anyone know good distributors in the region? Any idea how much I'd spend on a Walking Dead? It looks like the GB price hike raised the MSRP across the board. And, supposedly, another price hike is on the way... Last year a pinsider said I could get one for $4500. Is that still a reasonable expectation?

What kind of TWD?

#5401 3 years ago
Quoted from megalo17:

I'm looking at Pro models. I can't see myself spending over $5k. I think I can stomach low 4's right now. I like GB a lot, but the premium is so much cooler, I'd probably feel like that guy with a V6 Mustang if I went with the pro (which I know would run over $5k).

Truthfully, there are deals to be made with distributors, but they are far and few between. Most buyers aren't going to get much of a deal. Stern's price control has really clamped down in the last year.

#5413 3 years ago
Quoted from stretch2:

Greatly Reduced Prices on my STLE and AC/DC Premium ...
STLE was $8200...Now $7400 or Best Offer
AC/DC Premium Pinball Refinery Edition was $8300...Now $7700 or Best Offer
No Trades please...

#5434 3 years ago
Quoted from MAJRob:

Ha! Well played!
I kill terrorists for a living - not an editor by trade

I give Rob a pass... he's a badass!

1 week later
#5483 3 years ago
Quoted from billsfanmd:

Just got a black hole in...Nice cosmetics. All boards sent out, ground mods, new upper pf plastics, cliffy up kicker mod, credit button under cab, new rubbers, leds and being shopped. Hope to have ready in next week or so...Pics up soon. thinking 1800 OBO after I get it all back together and working.

Did you ever sell that CFTBL?

1 week later
#5530 3 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

If it was a better pin then a auction thing may work ....but its jm ....

JM rocks... one of my favorite WMS games... and always affordable

#5531 3 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

That was your post from May 2014.

Twice in the last year I've looked at this thread's first page by mistake and responded to the ACDC for 5K-ish... LOL. Those were the days!

1 month later
#5929 3 years ago
Quoted from TimMitchell:

I suppose it depends on the game. I'm looking to spend around $2.5k, so I plan to be on the lookout for a decent Shadow in that range.

You can find a decent Shadow in the 2.7-3 range... you never know, you might get luck and snag a good player for 2.5

#5949 3 years ago
Quoted from Jesterfunhouse:

I love White Rose/York but that is not till the end of Sept. Allentown is worth the FARMERS MARKET next door!

Steve - I think what you meant to say is:

"Farmers Market is worth the drive... plus ALLENTOWN next door!"

#5968 3 years ago
Quoted from weaverj:

i just called a guy about an IJ today. he tells me $7900...


Uh... no.

#5980 3 years ago
Quoted from Jesterfunhouse:

I posted an AD and I know its a long shot but looking for a 1969 Williams "Fast Ball" backglass.

Contact too-many-pins (skip)

He might have one

#5999 3 years ago

Looking to trade my HUO TWD-premium for AFM. Shoot me a PM if you're interested and live within 2 hrs of DC area. Could also consider WH20

1 week later
#6031 3 years ago

Did you sell amh?

2 weeks later
#6084 3 years ago

I'm officially putting my single owner loaded *Mint* HUO Walking Dead Premium up for trade. Game is gorgeous all the way around... cabinet is flawless as is playfield. Only blemish is a small piece of the Well Walker waist decal is missing from normal play (this is easily replaceable with a new decal from Stern or secondary supplier). Have owned the game since last spring, no chipping or ghosting on playfield (mylar over waxed surface in shooter and drain area).

Here's what I have in the game:

Game NIB: $6800
Flipper Fidelity Woofer Upgrade: $95
Stern Shaker Motor: $100
Color Changing Speaker Lights: $45
Speaker Acrylics: $20
Hooked-Pinball Barn: $130
Woodbury Sign: $25
Hell Sign: $25
Interactive Hitchhiker Sign: $35
Mezel Prison Door Overhang: $15
Blood Splatter: $20
Cliffy (ramp and shooter): $33.5
Gnassle Bicycle Girl Light: $70
All In: $7413.5

Also has red Titan bands on flippers... slightly longer hex posts were added to ramp to level out ramp gap for smooth shots. Goodie bag still stapled inside of game.

Game has been well cared for... frequently cleaned and waxed. It's pristine. Valued at $6700

I am looking for good condition games: AFM, TOTAN, TOM, WH20...possibly STTNG or AMH.. outside interest in GB...probably in that order. Would like to see what offers are out there. No shipping, Balt/Wash Metro area...or within 150 miles

#6093 3 years ago

Changed ad from trade only to trade or straight sale...

This game is loaded and in pristine condition... If you've been thinking about buying a NIB premium and adding in mods/shaker, etc, this will get you in way cheaper than NIB-plus!

Looks like I might have one firm offer on a game not on my list... have had some other non-list offers... if interested PM!

#6104 3 years ago

TWD is sold pending

4 months later
#6863 3 years ago
Quoted from mavantix:

Holy crap!
Stories like that make me want to install a whole house surge suppressor...

That only works for a surge coming through the grid... you get a lightning strike near your house and that's completely different...

#6865 3 years ago
Quoted from billsfanmd:

Cash sale as I found a Tron. Setting game up in the morning. Lots of mods, topper, undercab lighting. 5950

Is this HUO? $5950??

#6871 3 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Remember they are remaking it which affected the price a good bit it seems......

That only drives the price of a modded original down if you assume the remake is going to be better. Based on Sterns recent practices, I'd rather have an original. By the time you buy a remake NIB, you'll already be close to 7K without any of the mods that are popular for this game.

#6884 3 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I re-listed my STLE only serious offers.
Would take cash or trade (plus or minus cash).

I thought you traded it for a WOZ?

#6886 3 years ago

He was just advertising a RR WOZ yesterday or the day before.

That's probably where your pin is...

#6889 3 years ago

Why would that worry you? Game has been out for 3+ years... folks have a ton of cash tied up in them. Lots of new games coming out.

#6912 3 years ago

Ripleys is an awesome game... it's an LE package... if stern sold it this day and age it would have a $9k price tag on it. Solid design. Engaging rules. A big world under glass.

#6919 3 years ago
Quoted from Jesterfunhouse:

My only time to play one was last year in Bethany Beach. It had lots of switch issues (always looking for the ball) and flippers that couldn't reach anything...But it looked cool and would love to play a dialed in one (Not to be confused with Dialed In).

I have a super nice Mint dialed in one... feel free to swing by and give it go on your way home from work on day

#6923 3 years ago

Missing out... but, different games for different folks

#6929 3 years ago
Quoted from zimjoe:

I hear FB is better, but then I would have to be on FB.
Heck, TNT prices are starting to look reasonable.

I'm not a Facebook fan either... canceled my personal account 3 years ago. But, I had to open a new one for some work-related stuff. I don't carry any friends, but do follow the various arcade groups. Point is: you can be on Facebook to take advantage of the pinball stuff without having to actually be on Facebook.

#6933 3 years ago

You can find a good condition RBION in the low 3's. But if you want a super mint/modded one, you're looking 3.5 to 4.

As with anything, it comes down to condition.

#6937 3 years ago
Quoted from MikeSinMD:

I just want to chime in on RBION. I bought one a few months ago for $4000. At first I thought it was a little high, but it is a true HUO and perfect in every way. The side art doesn't have a mark on it. Play field is 100% perfect. It really does look like it just came out of a box and didn't get much use. The only issue was that it had original batteries and they had leaked. It wasn't that bad and was easily fixed. It was about 5 miles from my house and the guy delivered. It's a very fun, fast and deep game. Highly underrated in my opinion. Bottom line.... I don't mind paying a little more because of the condition, location, and delivery. Also I was able to play it a bunch before I decided to buy. Just My .02

Sounds similar to the one I picked up... took me about a week to understand the game. The playfield design and flow is absolutely brilliant.

#6938 3 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I am willing to pay 3.5 for super mint, but the ones I was seeing were nice players conditions and asking 3.5

It's going to be almost impossible to find one $3.5 for a super mint... and decent players routinely sell in the low 3s

#6942 3 years ago
Quoted from zimjoe:

I have only played this on Pinball arcade, but it seems really fun. I've never owned a game by Lawlor. I like a lot of his pins.

The game, in some ways, is like Adams Family on steroids. It's a layout and design that uniquely moves the ball around with subways, VUKs, ramp diverters, physical ball lock, two different magnets, etc. It also has a three-chute upper playfield that matches with a light matrix on the playfield to dish out awards. Lots of standup targets... two spinners... 6 pops... two ramps...

Lots of thought went into this one...and the design doesn't lend to any cheap drains.

Fun game that takes a little time to learn, but once you understand objectives, it's a challenge.

#6964 3 years ago
Quoted from toddtuckey:

A shameless plug for my new Bargain Basement #14 video...38 arcade and pinball machines reduced...40 minute video has game titles and prices in the description, and also hyperlinks directly to the game you may be interested in. Also will do trades! Todd from TNT Amusements » YouTube video

Always enjoy your vids.
Hope you donate to Pinside for every sale you generate by posting that here.

1 week later
#7057 3 years ago

You have to be super careful with Coin Op. They'll say: "working," but that only means the machine powers on.

I bought a "working" Big Hurt from them, years ago, and it ended up needing serious repair and 100's to get working.

Problem is, most games are sold before any real pics/descriptions are available.

#7065 3 years ago
Quoted from PoMC:

I find it amusing that people collect scales and gas station pumps and that Coinop makes a killing on them. Who the hell would want a gas pump in their gameroom? That makes zero sense to me - what does a gas pump have to do with games?
I guess the scales at least are coin operated- but again, why would you want a scale in your gameroom?

It has nothing to do with games. There are people that just collect pumps, advertising signs, etc... that's their thing. They probably think folks like us are crazy for dumping thousands into pinballs.

#7067 3 years ago

Only buy from Coin Op if you're 100% comfortable diagnosing and repairing. Just saying...

#7078 3 years ago

Whoa, stretch2, nice deal here! Super nice add-ons!

#7100 3 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

I'm looking for shadow PM if you have one.

I thought you were looking for a RBION??

3 weeks later
#7210 2 years ago
Quoted from jkashani:

Looking for a nice example of a Whitewater or Fish Tales. Please PM me if you have one for sale or leads on one.

Pretty sure I’m going to sell my FT... post Thanksgiving. Nice one. If you’re still looking then, shoot me
A PM. -Todd

1 week later
#7242 2 years ago

What happened to the topper?

#7244 2 years ago

Probably a short ceiling caused it to be removed

#7261 2 years ago

Trade: HUO mint RBION for CfTBL.

Hit me up

#7265 2 years ago

Have a friend that’s looking to buy a Super Chexx. If anyone is selling, shoot me a PM.

2 months later
#7637 2 years ago
Quoted from billsfanmd:

I made the mistake of playing Wizard of Oz for the first time now I want one. Listing a beautiful ToM later tonight...Cash or trade toward a WoZ standard.

Wow, Mike. That game looks AWESOME!

#7654 2 years ago

Looking for good Indy 500

#7677 2 years ago

On the hunt for a very nice Big Game.

#7688 2 years ago

I’m going to post my Taxi FS. Shopped/plug and play.

#7691 2 years ago
Quoted from mdclips:

Really? That is such a nice one!

I got a wild hair... decided it was time to rotate some games. At least 3 are leaving... possibly 4. Right now have 2 definites incoming (searching for the third) and trying to decide if I'm going for a 4th.

I hate selling games, though. I wish I could just pack them up and store for rotation. Alas, not an option. Taxi has gotten a lot of play in this house... so if I list it and it doesn't sell, I'll have to pick something else to put on the chopping block! win win!

#7693 2 years ago

I wi$h that were po$$ible!

#7695 2 years ago

Or you could find buyers... right?

#7698 2 years ago
Quoted from yzfguy:

What games are you considering rotating out?
I kinda have that winter restless almost want to trade something out feeling

My current incoming are: Indy 500 (hopefully this week) and TNA (hopefully pre-summer). And I have a search out for Big Game, which I really want. I have another idea for a fourth incoming, but haven't come to peace with it yet

Right now, my potential out is possibly: TAXI and Roadshow. I may *possibly* have Ripleys enter the mix... not sure (still playing the daylights out of that one). My Fish Tales is sold, but staying put while a friend makes a sale to make room.

I all honesty, I want to keep them all... I still play them and really enjoy them and there isn't one that I can't stand. But, I thought it would be fun to shake things up.

#7721 2 years ago

Taxi is off to a great new home! Donated to pinside. Hoping all goes well and that a replacement is coming on Wed!

Still looking for a Big Game... and am pretty sure a very nice Road Show will be hitting the market soon. Also starting to consider moving one more title.

#7732 2 years ago

Back in the market - cash in hand

Archived after 12 days
Unknown reason:
Machine - Wanted
Wanted! “Looking for a nice Indy 500 within a few hours of Washington DC metro area. Nice meaning: overall good condition with game specific parts working and intact. Cab in good overall c...”
Gaithersburg, MD

#7735 2 years ago

Still on the hunt - someone out there must know someone! Right?

1 week later
#7784 2 years ago

Still looking for a Big Game... cash in hand!

#7802 2 years ago

Well, found an Indy 500 outside of pinside... have a little trip to Pittsburgh happening in the very near future!

Still on the hunt for Big Game! Looking like my RS will be hitting the market in the next month!

#7804 2 years ago

No Tron for sale... sorry!

#7828 2 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Im going to be selling or partial tradeing my very clean all matching numbers beautiful huo tz with nice tasteful mods including 8 hr video tv ,color dmd, invisaglass, rocket, skull, camera, pyramid, car, all cliffys, plastic protectors, ingo clock, white clock face, backboard decal, all leds, interactive lighted gumball, steel gumballs, interactive undrrcab flashers, lighted translight door mod, relocated batteries, diverter magmet and sticker, target decals, piano mod, missing flasher mod and probably some others im forgetting. Only pin i wld trade towards wld be a hobbit . Looking to get 8700 as is or i can remove the glass and color dmd and sell for 8200. If interested i can provide pics . Its a very nice original tz that plays great. Im also looking for a nice toyota truck if u happen to have one of those lol.

Do you have documentation that it's HUO?

#7835 2 years ago


#7841 2 years ago
Quoted from teddyb73:

Selling my HUO Aerosmith Pro. Would trade for a BSD plus cash.

Machine - For Sale
Aerosmith (Pro)New!HUO - Undocumented (Home Used Only) “Selling my mint Aerosmith Pro with mods. Pin has:

Pingraffics powerblades

Aerosmith Toy Chest Slime Plate

Aerosmith Airball Killer Plastic

Aerosmith Elevator Heart Mod

1 hour ago Doylestown, PA 4,850 (OBO)

Solid seller!

3 weeks later
#7984 2 years ago
Quoted from zimjoe:

If someone even wanted that tattoo, I might pay for it (disclaimer: I wouldn't)
That game looks nice. Makes me want to sell some stuff.
I'm surprised you aren't shopping it out; that is your raison d'etre, is it not?

If anyone should have that, it’s Stretch2... the “creator” of one of the most active threads on the forum... where the hell is he??

#7999 2 years ago
Quoted from VividPsychosis:

Hello fellas,
I am looking to pick up game number 5 for the collection so that I can be a host for my league in the near future.
I am looking for a excellent condition TAF with tasteful mods and LEDs, cliffys. Colordmd would be preferred but not necessary, same with pdi/invsiglass.
If the game has bad Mylar, excessive wear, mansion overlay, or magnet burn. You need not apply
Timing of this deal would likely be a week or two after TPF. I am just looking to see what is available and give plenty of time to shop around.
I am in Richmond VA, I need it to be close enough to drive or able to deliver.
Thank you for reading this post

Time to get yer wallet out!

4 weeks later
#8142 2 years ago
Quoted from zimjoe:

Not only would it be hard to sell, it would be hard to part with... <3

The Raven market is a tough one.... but... if you price it right, you’ll see it roll out your door!

1 week later
#8181 2 years ago
Quoted from ryandimx:

Pinball side mirrors $75 brand new never opened. Pick up only, not looking to ship or hold. First one who can come will get them.
Located in Doylestown PA 18901.

Might want to list manufacturer compatibility

#8198 2 years ago
Quoted from annointed:

Stern Orbitor 1
I’ll be listing my Orbitor 1 for sale/trade shortly. It looks pretty nice and everything on it works. I’ll be taking pictures in the next few days.
Williams Bram Stoker’s Dracula
I might list my BSD as well. It has the painted modfather village upgrades and the upgraded tombstone (not installed) and is fully LED’d. It was torn down to the wood and fully shopped by a meticulous local buddy in 2017, and has maybe 100 plays on it since then. All posts, rubbers, etc replaced. He actually expressed interest in buying it, so I want to hit him up first before I officially make it available to the public.
As far as trades go, I’m looking for RFM and TSPP. My 10 y/o really wants an RFM, so that title is my top choice right now.
I’ll come up with some asking prices too, but just throwing it out there so anyone can PM me if they want to discuss either of these machines.

Don't sell BSD. It is the single coolest game out there!

plus, you'll be cursed forever!

#8203 2 years ago
Quoted from weaverj:

don't tell him that! lol.

Gotta look out for fellow collectors... especially during moments of apparent weakness!

#8211 2 years ago

Let’s Go Caps!

#8216 2 years ago
Quoted from Butch2099:

It's a standard. I sold it to him. Perfect condition, low plays when I sold it to him not long ago..

Standard is probably the rarest WOZ out there

1 week later
#8239 2 years ago
Quoted from PoMC:

Mine too. This is my second time around with one, very fun game.

Did you hand paint the soccer ball?

#8271 2 years ago
Quoted from Butch2099:

Johnny Mnemonic going into the marketplace later today. $3,200 or best offer. Open to trades. Hand recently gone through completely. Everything works as it should. Reds in cabinet have been redecaled.
It was in our booth at Allentown if you were there.

One of my best/favorite pinball purchases to date. I have a thing for this game... GLWS

3 weeks later
#8387 2 years ago

Curious that IM are on the secondhand radar already?

2 weeks later
#8477 2 years ago
Quoted from SeaLawyer:

In the upper end of that price range, T2 or Popeye for more “modern” pins. I LOVE my T2! It’s a blast to play! Not a super deep rule set, but lots of fun nonetheless. High Speed 2 &amp; Stargate are some others that might fit the bill. In the lower end of that price range, F-14 Tomcat (at 125) is a lot of fun, as is Grand Lizard (117). IMO, T2 is the best pin for under $2500. If you can spend more ($3500-$4000), now you’re in The Shadow/Whitewater/Fish Tales/Funhouse arena. MUCH better pins, but nearly twice the price.

Hahaha, good luck with that! 3 of those 4 are around triple your initial upper price limit... Bottom line, the higher the pin is on the Top 100 list, the more it’s going to cost (generally speaking). T2 is an exception, and there are others, but there’s no Top-25 pin for under $4K, unless you’re talking a beat up WH20. Most of that level are $6K+.
I mean, if someone wants to sell me an AFMrLE for under $5K, please let me know!!

I’d be shocked if you could find a whitewater for under $4k... more like under $5k.

2 weeks later
#8554 2 years ago
Quoted from Spelunk71:

I heard VUK will be gone eventually (at least that location) because of construction, but not any time soon according to their Facebook page.

They’ll be open for at least 18 more months, according to owner

1 week later
#8603 2 years ago
Quoted from gliebig:

Been considering adding a Super Chexx. Anyone parting with one?

I *might* have a super nice Chexx for sale in a few months. Will know once we’re done renovating our basement (may or may not make the cut space wise)

3 weeks later
#8804 2 years ago
Quoted from Zzap:

I'm on the look out for a Flight 2000 if anyone's got one they are thinking of moving on. I've got a friend filling up a container at Coinopwarehouse in Hagerstown, MD, so I've got shipping sorted from there to Australia, but I'd need a hand getting it over to them if possible.

Tell your friend to be careful with what he buys from there... it's like a box of chocolates

#8824 2 years ago

Funny - the new normal in this thread is to say “thinking about selling __ game... let me know if you might be interested,” rather than just posting the game.

I’ve done it.

That’s all cool... I just hope everyone follows through and pays the appropriate fees to Pinside. Would be nice to keep the lights on around here.

#8826 2 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

+1 Don’t know if you were referring to anything I posted, but my posts of this nature might be better thought of as “don’t really want to sell, but I don’t have enough space
So something has to go.. if I get a good offer
From an enthusiastic buyer, I may be able to part with it..”
Scared Stiff in beautiful condition with custom one-of-a-kind animated eyes mod

Actually was just making a general observation. I’ve done the same thing... but I’ve I’ve also always donated if the exchange happened because of Pinside. Just seems like it has become the norm.

#8858 2 years ago

No way... must have been fake

#8877 2 years ago
Quoted from gripwhip:

IMVE for sale. Nicely modded.

Machine - For Sale
Iron Man (Pro Vault Edition)New!NOB - New out of box (first owner) “Very Nice HOU IMVE. Original Owner. Purchased new Feb 2015.

Mods/Details include:

Pinball Life Rev B Shaker Motor
Hooked Whiplash with EL White Whips
Speaker Light...”
43 minutes ago Silver Spring, MD 5,500

I've played this game - beautiful!

Sold mine - and even though the action figures on the PF aren't my thing, I sure do miss it. Wish I hadn't sold it. Great game!

#8892 2 years ago
Quoted from Skyemont:

Take the cash and buy a Whitewater.

Almost impossible to find a 4.5k Wh20 these days...

#8896 2 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

You're not going to want a beatup white water. Anyone who trades an average or above WH20 for 4500 is