(Topic ID: 104770)

What do you prefer, The Avengers LE or Transformers LE?


By rai

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 94 posts
  • 43 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Eskaybee
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

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Topic poll

“What's better?”

  • Transformers LE 74 votes
    57%
  • Avengers LE 55 votes
    43%

(129 votes by 0 Pinsiders)

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There are 94 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 4 years ago

Here's an idea, you live in Maryland.

Take a weekend trip to NYC.

Visit the Intrepid, WTC Museum, Museum of Natural History, Little Italy AND Modern Pinball...who happen to have both Avengers LE & Transformers LE.

#52 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

That's a great video to show both what's good and what's bad about AVLE.
I think the music is great. There are several shots on AVLE that are extremely satisfying. More so than many recent Stern pins. The tesseract sound fx are really cool.
To me the main drawback of AVLE is the code. As others have mentioned, the sheer number of shots required to progress through the game is very high.
That video is 24 minute game. Where is the break out scoring opportunity? Didn't see it in that game. The scoring seems to be too balanced, without enough risk/reward scenarios that give you the chance for the big payback. I'd get bored of a pin that I could keep having 25 minute games on without feeling like I made much progress.
I'd take AVLE over TFLE in a fairly close choice, but the mini PF on TFLE tips the scales clearly in AVLE's favor.

You've hit on something. The scoring in AV IS too balanced....despite the fact that some say you can play a "bonus rape" strategy (that I find absurd). AV would benefit from some risk/reward action and some hurry-ups and rule based scoring tweaks. I am holding out for a rules polish but the game is mostly done and just fine as is.

That said, I think the game is mis-understood and far better than its rep. I love it, and the challenge it presents. It's better than Transformers, which is also better than its rep and can be a stone cold blast to play in its own right.

Hulk and Megatron MBs are crazy "balls a poppin'" fun. Oh what a Lyman ruleset coulda done for either

#53 4 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

Almost a toss up...

The current poll results would agree.

#54 4 years ago

I'd love to own AVLE, but I would have to amputate Hulk's arms while it was in my possession.

#55 4 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

No mention of appearance...I think AVLE is beautiful, and is a clear winner over TFLE in that category.

I disagree. The Decepticon TFLE has one of the nicest looking art packages around. As with all things art wise though, that is just my personal taste.

-2
#56 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

I disagree. The Decepticon TFLE has one of the nicest looking art packages around. As with all things art wise though, that is just my personal taste.

They're both better-looking than TBL to me, so that should tell you something about my tastes.

#57 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

Take a weekend trip to NYC.
Visit the Intrepid, WTC Museum, Museum of Natural History, Little Italy AND Modern Pinball...who happen to have both Avengers LE & Transformers LE.

I may be going to NYC this year, not sure if my wife will go for it.

where are the pins located?

#58 4 years ago

Had Gomez supported the code development for either of these titles, they would have been great successes. So much potential in both titles; instead they are average fun games. Not bad, but not great either.

#59 4 years ago

Avengers belongs in the "Stucky Ball" hall of fame due to the sheer number of places the ball can get stuck at. TF LE suffers from useless toys and flow braking add ons. Layout goes to Avengers for its uniqueness. Rule set wise - even, replayability to TF. I've played both many times and don't care for either one. If had to pick one to like more than the other to play I go with TF as I slightly enjoy that one more then AV.

#60 4 years ago

Let me guess. You played them on route or at a show?

AV is ball hang up city behind the hulk if you don't set it up right. Get that switch in front of him sensitive and it's fairly uncommon after that. If you have a pro it's even less common. I guess Star Trek should be next to it in the hall of fame as I get easily 4-5 times more ball hang ups (lower pop bumper) in it than I do AV.

I also don't get the flow on TF. Shoot optimus and it comes right back to you via the inner loop. When he is up you bash him and it comes back immediately (no stop and go). Both ramps feed the balls back to me just as fast as my MET, ST and AC/DC do. They don't "look" as smooth but time wise, it's about the same. Only stopping is with megatron for ball locks and the all spark. I wouldn't even remotely consider it a stop and go type of pin. I'd like to hear more as I always hear this and I don't get it at all. I get just as much flow on this game as I do my other Sterns in my collection. The ball may not look as pretty going through the ramps but they return pretty quickly.

#61 4 years ago

I have both and like them, but lean to transformers, because of theme

#62 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

AVLE can be used as a great example of the apparent hypocrisy of Pinsiders who bash Stern for giving us the same rehashed layout over and over again (some truth to that), given the unique and satisfying layout AVLE has, yet it is bashed pretty hard around here. While I know that there are some dependability/tweaking issues that cause some of the bashing, you still don't see it widely recognized as having a cool and unique layout.

Yes and no. Gomez has come up with something unique, but really it's the same design that he started with MB, lead into LOTR, and was twisted to the left for AV. I have long stated that there are clearly constraints on designers at Stern, likely in lieu of cost cutting, and new design simply isn't in the picture. This is why SR has done games that are after his old designs (T2->ACDC, STTNG->ST) IMO. Borg just copies everyone, so nothing to go on there, but Gomez has gone to one of his classic designs as well that is a winner, but done enough to it in AV that it does look new.

As with SR, they are at least taking from their own designs, and doing what they can within, again what I believe to be the constraints they are given for a new game. I think AV is the most inspiring change from someone's prior designs.

Despite the above, I would rather drink cold day-old coffee than play either.

#63 4 years ago

I have never played Avengers. I own Transformers LE and still wonder about how underrated it is! I prefer it even over my LOTR and TAF machines....

#64 4 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

Let me guess. You played them on route or at a show?

Played them on location, at shows, and in residential settings.

#65 4 years ago

To me TF has the better theme but Avengers has the most kick ass layout

Sadly Avengers has some problems. Over time it annoyed me to the point I stopped playing it on route. I'm sure I will play it again someday but probably for the wrong reasons. TF is in a similar boat (to me).

Those two games are so cheap I want to like em but I'd rather buy a WWF & Baywatch. Those games are cheap & superior in every way (to me).

#66 4 years ago

As an owner of both I enjoy the complexity and rules of both pins. I like the tough shots of avengers and i like the deep rule set of transformers. I own a TFLE and have never played a pro. Both are great pins in my mind but everyone has their own taste. My wife loves transformers and asks me weekly when I am selling avengers lol.

#67 4 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

Let me guess. You played them on route or at a show?

Let me guess, no one owns any pinball machines but you?

#68 4 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Let me guess, no one owns any pinball machines but you?

No, because it's a comment 99% of the people make that have only played it on route and via poorly set up machines.

I'll explain. If you play a crap game on route that is poorly set-up your feedback could be very different than playing the same game that is properly set up. With AV it makes a big difference on how it's set-up and that piece of information is extremely valuable in this debate.

I stand behind my comment, that if AV is a ball hang up hall of fame member than ST is right next to it. I get way more hang ups in that pin than I do AV. heck, I could probably name off half a dozen more games that have worse hang up issues than AV does as well. the only stuck ball location on AV is the hulk arms. That is EASILY rectifiable via setting the sensitivity on the switch in front of the HULK. To me, that argument is as bad as saying my car is a piece of junk because I have it tuned for a 2.76 pulley but I have a 3.2 pulley installed on it and it doesn't run right.

Step outside the box and quit trying to find ways to call me out and you'll understand I'm just trying to bring a difference in perspective to a debate that get's lopsided all the time. Feedback is relative and I have every right to debate it so deal with it.

#69 4 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

No, because it's a comment 99% of the people make that have only played it on route and via poorly set up machines.
I'll explain.

Well don't lump us Michigan guys in the 99%rs!

Quoted from 85vett:

Step outside the box and quit trying to find ways to call me out and you'll understand I'm just trying to bring a difference in perspective to a debate that get's lopsided all the time.

That's totally cool, and your thoughts are just as valid, if not more than mine since you own both.
My only issue of jumping back in and quoting you is my biggest pet peeve around here assuming someone hasn't played a "dialed in" machine if they don't like it or have issues with it.
That's a silly argument, and as it seems, incorrect.

#70 4 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

the only stuck ball location on AV is the hulk arms.

Entirely false as the ball can get stuck in the following places also:

On the Black Willow ramp in the gap that the lifting hulk ramp creates.
Top /Right hand corner from a very fast / clean Loki, Capt.America shot.

#71 4 years ago
Quoted from GravitaR:

Entirely false as the ball can get stuck in the following places also:
On the Black Willow ramp in the gap that the lifting hulk ramp creates.
Top /Right hand corner from a very fast / clean Loki, Capt.America shot.

And the slots in the right ramp where the locks are...

#72 4 years ago
Quoted from GravitaR:

On the Black Willow ramp in the gap that the lifting hulk ramp creates.

Oh that got me during the GR finals.

#73 4 years ago

I haven't played either pin much but I'd pick Transformers because I like the theme better. I used to have them when i was a kid etc..

#74 4 years ago

I'll talk ya'lls word for it.

On the Black Willow ramp in the gap that the lifting hulk ramp creates. - never once had a ball stop on my BW ramp. I have a pro though. Never seen one stop there on the LE's I've played either though.

Top /Right hand corner from a very fast / clean Loki, Capt.America shot - Same with this. Never once had it stop there either. Only thought would be a low pitch game getting stuck at the control gate maybe. Never seen it so can't comment on that.

And the slots in the right ramp where the locks are... - Yup, this was a big issue until the update kit came out that came with a decal that covers those screw holes as well as an extra plastic to help with Hulk saucer bounce outs. had it happen a lot until that was installed. Since then, never once happened again.

Since we are talking about stuck pinballs. - I do get them stuck under my Iron Hide mini playfield from the auto launcher. Don't see it mentioned much so it may just be my machine.

'Well don't lump us Michigan guys in the 99%rs!" - Fair enough. I actually never noticed where he was at. I just looked in his collection and saw he doesn't own one now nor in his past thus my assumption. I know there are some on here that look to be a dick and cause drama. I'm not really one of those (at least I don't feel like I am). I'm kind of an up front and blunt person which makes my message get confused some though. Believe it or not I generally type a message 3-4 times before getting something to post as I'm trying to reword things that originally could come out sounding harsh.

#75 4 years ago

85vett is getting unlawfully beat up in this thread. What people don't realize about AV, is most of its issues can be resolved in a huo environment. The game absolutely sucks on location and in tournaments because the maintenance that is required. The BW ramp stuck ball - easy adjustment to fix if any. In my experience it was just a pitch/leveling issue. Loki ball stuck - easy screw adjustment and I even think stern released a decal to place over the rivet ? I will say this, the hulk stuck balls suck!! The only real fix for this is raising the hulk arms up enough so the ball can go in and out freely. Hulk still works perfectly fine as a bash target. However, the challenge of the hulk super JP is taken away from this as you won't have to hit hulk then the super JP in a matter of a fraction of a few seconds time difference. It's a very satisfying super jackpot and I think the only real super JP shot on a stern in a few years or more?

In any case; a little more effort by Gomez and a some extra code support could have easily fixed a lot of this and gave avengers a much better wrap than it deserves. The call outs to me are awesome! I don't get the negative comments on fake actors on this title. Most of the time fake actor call outs suck, but avengers is the exception.

As for TF, i got an entire year of addicting fun play out of mine. Very underrated, and as 85vett mentioned, remove the Ironhide control gate! Then tweak a few adjustments in the settings and IH isn't so bad anymore. TF has been one of the biggest crowd pleasers amongst guests as it's rule sheet is straight forward and easily understandable. Plus the sounds, music, effects are over the top excellent! I still want to play a pro someday! Who has one in so cal for me to try?

That all said; my original choice was AVLE > TFLE; but today I remember how much fun I had with TFLE in that year, I think I would take that fun back before AVLE.

#76 4 years ago

Avengers LE. No contest for me.

#77 4 years ago

They're both good games. I'd buy the theme you like more personally.

#78 4 years ago

I own both and my vote goes to TF LE.

Avengers is a tough game to master the shots while Transformers is a smoother flowing game with easier shots. TF also sounds great with upgraded speakers!

#79 4 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

TF has been one of the biggest crowd pleasers amongst guests as it's rule sheet is straight forward and easily understandable. Plus the sounds, music, effects are over the top excellent! I still want to play a pro someday! Who has one in so cal for me to try?

There's one on location at Meltdown Comics. It's dirty and has Megatron trough issues...but otherwise plays decently.

#80 4 years ago

Sounds like spit decision.

From the discussions, I would lean towards TF if it's easier shooting and flow. I played AV pro (at Disney) and did not like it much. I played several games, more from curiosity than actually enjoying playing the game, that said it was likely 15% not working.

I was curious, if someone could explain how much TF is like LOTR? I mean are they same/similar layouts/shots?

#81 4 years ago

TF is nothing like Lotr. Nada.

#82 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I was curious, if someone could explain how much TF is like LOTR? I mean are they same/similar layouts/shots?

Zero. You could say they're both "fan layouts" but that really means nothing in terms of how the games play.

#83 4 years ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

TF is nothing like Lotr. Nada.

I misread a post about LOTR my bad.

#84 4 years ago

I not only own TFLE and AVLE but I also own LOTR also. All three are very different pins and are all three great pins to own.

#85 4 years ago
Quoted from GravitaR:

Entirely false as the ball can get stuck in the following places also:
On the Black Willow ramp in the gap that the lifting hulk ramp creates.
Top /Right hand corner from a very fast / clean Loki, Capt.America shot.

Entirely false on a properly adjusted game. I have played 100s of games on mine and not once had a ball trapped anywhere near the Captain America shot. I had some hangups with the BW ramp but not one since adjusting it the first week I had it.

The one and only hangup is around Hulk. And that isn't all that frequent or frustrating as it clears itself with current code. If you have not adjusted your BW ramp and get hangups there, that will clear itself as well.

#86 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I misread a post about LOTR my bad.

From some of the things you've posted about games and what you like, I think you'd like TF or TFLE. I was sold as soon as I played it at the PHoF. They had Tron LE and BIB and IM and practically everything else at the time and I kept going back to the TF. It captivated me. Of course I'd read NOTHING of the broken promises, fake voices, disappointments etc. it was just me and the game and I knew I wanted one after a handful of plays. It wasn't until later I learned of all the grief...and luckily I didn't care, because I rocked TFLE for a year in my house and had a blast. Eventually I realized the rules flaw...and it sucked...but Stern fixed it. So new buyers get the right game from the get-go rules wise.

I bought AVLE nib (actually a surprise gift from my wife) so I lived through all the drama with that one...both in terms of the games issues (and goodness) and the Pinside drama. Owning the game through all the turmoil it became maddening to consistently read all the negative comments and vitriol. I've said it a lot: one cannot play my game and say the game sucks.

Bigerle and Jackofdiamonds picked up my JM the other day and both were blown away by my AVLE. They LIKED it. Said they'd never played one as nice and never realized how good the game could feel and play and how fun it was. Mine can't be the only one out there that delivers the goods...but it sure seems so sometimes. To me, that is the hobby's loss. So I say this: if you love the Avengers theme, and you're a good shot maker, and you're tired of standard layouts, and you appreciate a well integrated sound, music and light package and you DONT MiND tinkering with your game until it's practically perfect....than take a chance on AVLE. You'll love it!

#87 4 years ago

BTW, it's often said AVLE is just an MB rehash. That's a bad thing?

#88 4 years ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

BTW, it's often said AVLE is just an MB rehash. That's a bad thing?

Who said that? They both have the "shoot the same shot over and over" Ruleset, but that's where the similarity ends.

#89 4 years ago

I had a Hulk that played perfectly and traded for a TFLE. I like both but give the nod to TFLE. The general view seems to be that the code for AVLE is pretty complete and deep. I disagree. I found the playing strategy to be one dimensional - Hulk and Loki multiballs and then Versus modes that are very similar and typically take multiple tries to complete. TF can be accused of the same but for me the modes have more personality and create a better sense of time pressure that can take you out of your game. The shots are so tight on AV that I also found myself shying away from just having a casual game. I still think AV is a fun game and loved the BW ramp, crazy hulk multiballs and callouts but it was not a keeper given my limited space.

-1
#90 4 years ago

AVLE is more interesting and more challenging.

#91 4 years ago

I have both:

AVLE: No doubt more challenging, and for me, because of the harder shots it made me a better player, but can also certainly be frustrating. Not as relaxing for casual play. Beautiful light show and better graphics than the TF. DMD modes are easier on the eyes, and far more interesting.

TFLE: More fun and relaxing to play. Easier shots, and longer ball times. Decepticon cannon is a thrill I have not tired of. DMD movie clips hard to see. Artwork on playfield not as crisp. Easy rule set to follow. More toys on playfield make it look like it's worth more.

If you have young players they will play TFLE more.

Bottom line: For entertaining (or kids), TFLE. For you, AVLE.

#92 4 years ago

I love my TF LE but would like to get an Avengers someday.... my vote is for TF though

#93 4 years ago

If anyone is tired of their AVLE and wants a badass IM. Let me know.

1 week later
#94 4 years ago

Looking at my old videos of TFLE and AVLE; I much much much prefer avengers over TFLE.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-videos#post-1967738

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