For me...Transformers LE all day long....
transformer.gif

Transformers by a mile. You can close this topic now

TF is such a chopping wood game...although I don;t know if AV is much better. For me the issue with TFLE is the goddamn ironhide mini "playfield," which is maybe the lamest thing on a pinball machine.
I've had fun playing both, but I wouldn't want to own either.

I'm getting so sick of people bashing the iron hide playfield. Take the control gate off and I bet only 5-10% of the people playing the game can get through it and collect all three awards. With the control gate it is boring but without it's tough.

Also sick of the wood chopping. It's enough already. You shoot 4 shots of which none can be the same shot in order to start a mode. Then the mode starts and requires you to shoot lit shots (LIKE EVERY OTHER GAME ON THE MARKET). If you don't want to take 4 shots to start a mode then set it on easy.

Rant off....

It's a tough one. DO you prefer fan layouts or more original types of games. That is what will tell you what you will like better. People bitch about the flow on TF. I have no issues with flow. Balls come back just as fast on TF as they do on my ST and MET. I think they are both fun games but I think more people will like the play of TF over AV since AV is a different layout and with the shots being so tight it can frustrate you fast.

Owned Both; AVLE gets the nod slightly. TFLE is easier to shoot and follow and a bit more simplistic overall. So if youre after that, then go TFLE. But im with TheLaw, that mini pf on TFLE is horrid! maybe try a TF Pro?

Then don't come into threads asking what people like don't like aboot TFLE. You're bound to hear such things, JUST LIKE IN EVERY OTHER GAME THREAD.

Both have their problems & both usually need massive amounts of tweaking to get playing well, but I'd have to go with AVLE. More unique playfield, more satisfying shots...both suffer from "shoot shots a million times" rules, but AV feels more like a cohesive story flow. Color Changing GI is cool. Toys are better. Hulk is cool & funny, and if you get the modded cube - that looks awesome. AV's dots are way better...TF movie clips are barely legible. Both have great music, though. TF's "pick a side" concept is cool.

This thread was a "which is better" tread and since I own both I have every right to be here.

I'm just saying, it's getting so freaking old hearing that. It's not nearly as bad as the vocal's try to make it seem. I just feel it's time for those that like things to be just as vocal as those that want to bash things.

Transformers over Avengers by a mile.

If Avengers had the movie cast voices, then it'd be different.

I hate it when people say Transformers is the same shots over and over. Every pinball has so many shots to shoot. For Avengers, it takes like 5 shots to light one of the Avengers.

TFLE gets my vote, I think it is a great game!

Both themes are cool but I love the Avengers theme much more. I've played more on the AV LE/Pro more than the TF though to be honest. My next pin should be AVLE.

I've owned both, and traded TFLE for a Hulk LE. I like the Avengers theme and game play better, but TFLE was not nearly as bad as it's made out to be on here.

Add a Poll....

I enjoyed playing Scott's AVLE this weekend. I'd give it a try in my lineup at the right price. I'm waiting for a Pro TF to show up for sale locally, but they seem to stay put.

Sure! But I guess what the OP is asking is an opinion like the one below, which I would find useful. As you own both you can really explain your preference for one or the other.

I've played and like the AVLE-G version and it's a cool game, but I love TFLE-C. Game looks and plays fast and awesome. Hopefully someday someone colorizes the DMD.

The Avengers LE is better.

Look this long Video (One game 24min)

Owned both le models and I still have the tfle.

I did. But I actually asked the OP a question which will help answer his question better than having a thousand people say "this is great" of "this sucks" about either game? Games are a feel thing. I learned my lesson about letting a forum chose what I should buy next or what I would enjoy more. My direction was to make the OP think about what types of games he prefers by asking - "It's a tough one. Do you prefer fan layouts or more original types of games. That is what will tell you what you will like better. "

If you look at both games they are fairly on par with each other. Both have goods and bads. This choice comes down to theme and which type of layout you prefer.

Theme - personal choice.
Dots - I couldn't care less. I don't watch a DMD while playing. I think as a community we put to much focus in on DOTS.
Sounds - AV has better call-outs but I feel TF has better music and sound effects. This will relate to theme though. If you prefer AV's theme you will probably like AV's sounds better.
Game play - Both have fairly tight shots and people claim them both to be "clunky". Both have some flow but both have some stop and "clunk" features.
Rules - TF is better for the novice or lesser skilled player. AV is better for those that can obtain longer ball times and progress through the game. AV at first can get boring. Takes time to get through some of the entry things to get it really going. TF, you are off and running right off the start.
Ramps - Nothing better feeling than nailing the BW ramp, especially in sequence. Nothing more frustrating than hitting the BW ramp when needed and it rejecting. I love the fact that starscream can screw you over and divert the ball. Neither of the ramps on TF have a rewarding type of feel but the starscream feature is pretty cool. Ramps are also where a lot of the "clunk" and "cheap" comes from. I think the ramps are a good ideal. Never once heard of or seen one broken plus you have more art options with them. Standard ramps look cleaner and don't wobble with the ball in place but they have there disadvantages as well.

You are really looking at two very different type of games. In fact the only things these two pins really share is the hatred towards them on the forum.

Impossible on TF with the movie clips. Avengers could be colorized, though.

Nice. Food for thought, thanks for sharing.

_{Post edited by jlm33: Edit: that smiley has no condescending hidden meaning!}

For the record, TF has fake voices mixed in with the movie voices. Fake Optimus is terrible. Fake Megatron doesn't match, but it's alright. Fake Starscream is pretty dead on, though.

Sure, every game has lots of shots to shoot...but, TF gets shit for "same shots over and over" because there really isn't anything else compelling about the game. The toys aren't interesting, there aren't any divertors or subways to mix things up, the targets & captive ball are relatively useless, there aren't many interesting gameplay strategies...so really all it has is "shoot shoot shoot, start mode....shoot shoot shoot finish mode" It's not terrible or anything, but it's monotonous...other games use their layout, features & code in more interesting and organic ways. Avengers suffers from being monotonous, too. That's one area where they're kind of equal. A good game can last a really long time, and those lengthy games can get boring. Unfortunately for any game that tries to be long-play/deeps style - I can only compare them to LOTR and TSPP - long/deep games that remain compelling and surprising 45 minutes in.

So - in a sense, TF and AV are very similar in how they make me feel over a lengthy game. If you're going to choose one or the other, I think it really comes down to which layout, toys, and theme you prefer.

^^^^ agree with 85 Vette, these would be my summaries as well.

The sound on TFLE is awesome out of the box. Add a sub and it's just cooooool. The whole house shakes. "DEEEEVVVESSSTTTTAAAAATOOORRRRRR!"

AVLE is a very good game. Tough to progress to the mini wizard mode because of the sheer number of shots required to collect all the Heros. Maybe this is why people dislike it. It's tough. Hey, you can reduce the number of shots required in the menu if you want. The Vs modes are very cool indeed, pretty unique in pinball.

All up, I don't think you could go wrong with either.

Especially if you think that you can almost buy both for the RRP of a Walking Dead LE.

rd.

That's a great video to show both what's good and what's bad about AVLE.

I think the music is great. There are several shots on AVLE that are extremely satisfying. More so than many recent Stern pins. The tesseract sound fx are really cool.

To me the main drawback of AVLE is the code. As others have mentioned, the sheer number of shots required to progress through the game is very high.

That video is 24 minute game. Where is the break out scoring opportunity? Didn't see it in that game. The scoring seems to be too balanced, without enough risk/reward scenarios that give you the chance for the big payback. I'd get bored of a pin that I could keep having 25 minute games on without feeling like I made much progress.

I'd take AVLE over TFLE in a fairly close choice, but the mini PF on TFLE tips the scales clearly in AVLE's favor.

TFLE ... no brainer here.

That does happen. You can have a 10 min game outscore a 30 min game depending on how well you progressed through the game. The only lopsided part of AV I'm aware of is the bonus. I've had several games where my bonus will double my score due to the 25X. We're talking about 50+ million point bonus on 50-75 million point balls.

Funny story, I had a buddy over a couple months ago whom played my TFLE. He played for about 20 mins and put up 100 million points and didn't beat a single robot. The rest of us were laughing at the fact he hadn't beat a robot but were also very surprised to see his score get that high without beating one.

No mention of appearance...I think AVLE is beautiful, and is a clear winner over TFLE in that category.

I haven't owned the pin so I don't know the rules that well.

What is considered the best way to quickly crank up the score? To me it doesn't seem that there is a quick way to do this.

Beat away at the shield targets to try and bump your bonus multiplier up quicker. In order to do it via the in lanes it takes 6 shots for each multiplier (would take forever). The random award will throw out a +5 periodically. On a longer ball you'll generally naturally hit the shields so it's not a focus of the game I go for. Best way to score good on AV (IMHO) is to try and stack objectives with MB's. I try to never do Hulk or Loki until I qualify as many Avengers as possible. This helps to collect them faster too. Scoring seems to be slow until you get to the point of the VS mode battles.

Eskaybee would be the best to answer that question though as I recall him having some killer games on his AV. My high is 409 million but that was a fluke game where I almost beat it (a little longer than an hour game). Most my GOOD games are 150-200 million. A standard game for me is 50ish million.

I just can't get into either of these games at all.

I played at a friends house and felt like I had just had a really good game. Looked up and finished with a whopping 48 million!

Avengers LE by a country mile. I love the layout and the shots.

One is dark and pretty muddy, the other is bright & full of horrible karate kicking girls.

Tough call.

Yup, and that is one of the reason's some dislike the game. If you don't know the strategy and are also shooting the shots necessary to progress through the game it will turn what felt like a rewarding ball into a disappointing ball. This is one of the reasons why I like the game so much. You can't just blow a score away like some other pins by just keeping a ball alive. This can be a good or bad thing based off the player.

Sorry OP if some of these back and forth conversations aren't inline with the thread. I think they are good discussions which could help you with your initial question.

*edit - adding another comment vs another post

While I agree that AV looks better this also gets a lot of dispute. Some absolutely hate the "Christmas tree" lighting of the LE o AV. Some like the red and purple theme of TF while others think it's to dark. With that said, I don't think either got decent artwork as both are a bit disappointing in that regard.

Both are using style guide assets, so they're not going to win any originality awards...that being said, AVLE looks better in person, IMO. Much cleaner, clearer. The Christmas Tree lighting is easily resolved by replacing the greens with warm white. Game lighting looks great once you ditch the green GI (although I kept green GI behind Hulk...looks good).

Well in Ironhide mode it becomes a little PF that you use the buttons to shake back and forth, keeping the ball moving and scoring points; Some people find it boring or uninteresting. Some people think it's the lamest toy in pinball, but they're probably just trolls whom haven't played a "dialed in" one.
The Pro is just a ramp.

I'll be the buzz kill. Neither of these pins look like they will pull an IM or TRON LE money wise. Because of that I would say to just wait till you can put some quality time on both. If you find you like one then go for it. If not, you aren't out anything. I doubt holding off would cost you any $$$.

There are very few people that are in the middle on these two titles. They are more love hate types of pins. Either you love them or hate them.

It's pretty lame, even when dialed in. I was playing a Pro on location the other day...I definitely like the speed of the Pro ramps vs. the LE ramps...but I think the LE looks way better with the Autobot metal right ramp & Starscream in the left corner. It's also nice that the LE has another controlled gate so the right orbit loops around sometimes instead of always going to the pops. Oh well, whatcha gonna do.

I can't for the life of me figure out the vitriol for AVLE. I owned it and loved it, but to each his/her own. As RobT said, it's got some pretty satisfying shots for a newer Stern. The Hawkeye loop/ramp is smooth and fast-- so fun. Making a nice, true shot up the BW ramp into the Hulk saucer is great (provided that you have the Hulk saucer fix) and then the light show and rumbling that starts Hulk multiball is very exciting. The IM shot is so hard that the only time I can make it up there is when I'm not trying, it seems. Fun game, unique layout, timeless theme. You can't go wrong in my opinion, especially at current pricing.

I don't know about that.

I owned TFLE. There were things I loved about it (sound fx for example) and things I really disliked about it (Ironhide), but overall I'd say I neither hate it or love it.

AVLE can be used as a great example of the apparent hypocrisy of Pinsiders who bash Stern for giving us the same rehashed layout over and over again (some truth to that), given the unique and satisfying layout AVLE has, yet it is bashed pretty hard around here. While I know that there are some dependability/tweaking issues that cause some of the bashing, you still don't see it widely recognized as having a cool and unique layout.

Totally!

I own AVLE and played several games on Scott's TFLE before he traded it. I don't think you can go wrong with either game. Get the one with the theme that resonates more with you. For me, I'm not a Transformers movie fan so AVLE gets the nod here...

Exactly. You go back and read all the hype on Pinside before Avengers came out.

Everyone was like "Gomez PLEEEEAAASE no fan layouts! We want something different!!"

Then when it comes out, the same people were "what's this? Where's Monster Bash part two??"

Weirdos.

Whatever you say about Gomez, he's not afraid to try things. Whether they all work 100%, hey maybe not, but at least he comes up with some fresh ideas.

rd.

Transformers by a long shot!

I would pick Avengers just because I think TF Pro is better than the LE.

Almost a toss up...less work to dial in a TF and keep it dialed so I'd go that.

I like um both, but would lean a bit more to Avengers love my hulk LE