(Topic ID: 67156)

What's a Nice MM worth now?


By Rush1169

5 years ago



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  • 149 posts
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  • Latest reply 5 years ago by zippydapinhead
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There are 149 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.
#101 5 years ago

It's idiotic to think that MM will not lose value. Is an "original" 1st run Stern worth more than a brand new 3rd run? No, because IT'S THE SAME GAME, and the newer one is....well....NEW!

#102 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

All you guys that really think original MMs are magically worth less than 8k, please find me a SINGLE nice condition fully working MM right now for that price.

No one is looking to buy an original at that price right now. 2000 or so people just put money down on new ones. Pretty much anyone who wanted one just got one, who is left wanting one? Just the people who must have an original for collector's sake. That narrows the potential buyers down by a shitload, so it is a buyers market.

#103 5 years ago

And the one's who already have one in their collection are shaking in their boots, and are going to hang on to their's for dear life.., Of course they are not going to sell their's now, too shocked./pissed at the moment...they would rather die and try to take it with them, than to realize it is now just worth 7k or less....(if in good shape.)..

#104 5 years ago

I am sorry but I don't see it the same as you.

Maybe I should rephrase the situation at hand. Please show me one company that has successfully manufactured a pinball machine in 6 months. It does not even matter if you have the code worked out and a parts list already set aside and the design done.... It still takes a TON of work to make a pinball machine and get full production running.

You guys have done nothing more than drop down 1k on a currently imaginary game that you really have NO idea on when you will get it. Plenty of other examples of this not going well (Wayno) or taking way longer than planned (JJP). How is PPS any different? He obviously needed all of you to bankroll the project otherwise he would have just put out a preorder list to get a feeler.

Keep in mind that it also seem the MMRs are actually completely reworked with new board sets, new LED light boards, and surely other things that have not come to light. Invariably there will be some production hurdles to overcome.

Until a BUNCH of MMRs actually come off the imaginary production line and people deem them to be similar enough in quality and play to the original MMs, they are NOT the same game and not even in the same category.

Just because 2000 people are silly enough to send PPS a $1000 deposit does not mean the value of a REAL world game drops substantially over night.

Find me a nice MM for 8k and you will prove me wrong. Until then, I would say the lack of them, proves you wrong.

#105 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Plenty of other examples of this not going well (Wayno) or taking way longer than planned (JJP). How is PPS any different?

JJP and Wayno wanted all the money up front.

PPS only wants $1000 down and the balance 1 week before it ships.

#106 5 years ago

Difference is a3 rd run stern is identical to the first run. This will be graphically different.completely diff board set that will TRY to emulate the original, completely diff lighting scheme. This is the difference between a Shelby cobra and a kit version. On the surface they seem the same, both will make you happy, but only one is worth more than most people's houses, and it's not the repro.

#107 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

JJP and Wayno wanted all the money up front.
PPS only wants $1000 down and the balance 1 week before it ships.

Skit-B, Heighway Pinball, Quetzal were only asking for a deposit too. But how many Predator, Full Throttle and Nemo pins (besides prototypes) have you seen? Expect delays - at least compared to what the creators believed. A single missing/late component from one of the subcontractor and you're late.

#108 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

JJP and Wayno wanted all the money up front.

My deposit with Wayne was for only half...2500

not that my opinion matters as I have more confidence in Rick than Wayne.

#109 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

JJP and Wayno wanted all the money up front.
PPS only wants $1000 down and the balance 1 week before it ships.

Not sure about Wayne but not true about JJP. They are accepting $1000 down in the form of a check to hold a game.

#110 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Find me a nice MM for 8k and you will prove me wrong. Until then, I would say the lack of them, proves you wrong.

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/should-i-pay-800000-for-a-shopped-mm#post-1184919

Quoted from limelime20:

I had a local person who had 2 MM's, and I have been trying to get one for the last 3 years....
He wanted $10,000 for either one of them......I alway's said $8000.00
And he kept passing, ..for years....
All of a sudden, he email's me , with,..."Do you still want a MM for 8K.? ...
what do think I should say..???

Not a flood, but just the beginning...
Personnaly I'd rather have an original that a remake,but that's me. Many more will want new over used any day.

#111 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I am sorry but I don't see it the same as you.
Maybe I should rephrase the situation at hand. Please show me one company that has successfully manufactured a pinball machine in 6 months. It does not even matter if you have the code worked out and a parts list already set aside and the design done.... It still takes a TON of work to make a pinball machine and get full production running.
You guys have done nothing more than drop down 1k on a currently imaginary game that you really have NO idea on when you will get it. Plenty of other examples of this not going well (Wayno) or taking way longer than planned (JJP). How is PPS any different? He obviously needed all of you to bankroll the project otherwise he would have just put out a preorder list to get a feeler.
Keep in mind that it also seem the MMRs are actually completely reworked with new board sets, new LED light boards, and surely other things that have not come to light. Invariably there will be some production hurdles to overcome.
Until a BUNCH of MMRs actually come off the imaginary production line and people deem them to be similar enough in quality and play to the original MMs, they are NOT the same game and not even in the same category.
Just because 2000 people are silly enough to send PPS a $1000 deposit does not mean the value of a REAL world game drops substantially over night.
Find me a nice MM for 8k and you will prove me wrong. Until then, I would say the lack of them, proves you wrong.

If the number of prospective buyers has anything to do with the current price, I can't help but think the prices on original MM's has dropped significantly if someone wants to sell right now.

The price of admission for anyone wanting to own even a routed beater MM was over $8k. Since it is now $8k for an NIB MMr, even though the machine isn't out yet, you gotta believe a bunch of potential buyers will wait rather than get the original.

Regarding the remake not having the same boards as the original. That hasn't seemed to hurt the value of CC with people replacing the CPU with a P-ROC board,

#112 5 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

Regarding the remake not having the same boards as the original. That hasn't seemed to hurt the value of CC with people replacing the CPU with a P-ROC board,

No, it doesn't hurt because it is fully reversible to the original configuration. Whereas, I can't say the same thing for the tiny new board or the piggybag looking board under the PF of the new remake. To some, it matters.

#113 5 years ago
Quoted from nhm:

It's idiotic to think that MM will not lose value. Is an "original" 1st run Stern worth more than a brand new 3rd run? No, because IT'S THE SAME GAME, and the newer one is....well....NEW!

Sorry .... but no..... The MMR (Copy) is not coming out of the SAME Williams factory. Shit... Williams don't even want their name on it

I can see in 2 years the remake selling for 4-5k. but not a genuine MM

#114 5 years ago
Quoted from gprotein:

Whereas, I can't say the same thing for the tiny new board or the piggybag looking board under the PF of the new remake. To some, it matters.

If and when it proves to play as well as the original, then how much will it matter. It's speculation till they ship, but I'm hoping the "New" tech holds up and plays better than the original as it should. No more burnt GI sectors or shitty Williams IDC connectors!

#115 5 years ago
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

I can see in 2 years the remake selling for 4-5k.

I'll be looking for one of those or a player's condition original for about the same $.

#116 5 years ago
Quoted from zippydapinhead:

If and when it proves to play as well as the original, then how much will it matter. It's speculation till they ship, but I'm hoping the "New" tech holds up and plays better than the original as it should. No more burnt GI sectors or shitty Williams IDC connectors!

I can fix/service my WPC95 pins just fine, Hope this new system is up to the task

#117 5 years ago
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

I can fix/service my WPC95 pins just fine, Hope this new system is up to the task

Agreed, don't mind having to do some soldering here and there, and the new system may not be as easy to service.

#118 5 years ago

About tree fiddy

#119 5 years ago

true collectors want the original
remake is hitting the market in Two years ??
enjoy it now and pay for a nice one 11-14K, average one 8-10 K

It will never drop below 9 K, mark my words

#120 5 years ago
Quoted from rvdv:

It will never drop below 9 K, mark my words

Consider them marked.

Quoted from rvdv:

remake is hitting the market in Two years ??

Oct. 2015? Q2 2014 is projected. Factoring in some delays on the extreme side than maybe.

Quoted from rvdv:

enjoy it now and pay for a nice one 11-14K

Nah, I'll wait for NIB for 8K.

#121 5 years ago

These 'collectors will want originals' comments seem to be a bit off IMO. I'm a collector and I'd rather have a brand new one do I not count? Am i alone on that? I understand not wanting a pin that you own to go down in value. However, if Planetary Pinball executes their plan to make and sell as many as they can it is obvious to me the crazy prices the originals were/are selling for will be a thing of the past. Not saying price will plummet but it will most definitely come down some no amount of trying to convince others that price should not drop will prevent that from happening. Just one dude's take on it.

#122 5 years ago
Quoted from rvdv:

true collectors want the original

2000 some people just put $ down on a remake. The people have spoken. Of course we would love an original, that's why they sold so fast, because the original is a known winner everyone wants. But when we can get a NIB waaaaay cheaper than a 16 year old original and with a warranty it's a no brainer for most. The true collectors who want the original are the kind of people who have the disposable income to justify mad $ for one and most likely already have one. The market for originals is gone at their previous price point. Period. (HEPS and such excepted) I can't speak for everyone, but I just want to play and could care less about the pins "pedigree" - If it looks like a MM and plays like a MM, then it is a MM to me, whether it has lamp sockets or not.

#123 5 years ago

When I heard the news I thought of milkshakes and how I might be able to finally get Medieval Madness (nib or routed). This news from the Expo is going to stir.

#124 5 years ago
Quoted from zippydapinhead:

If it looks like a MM and plays like a MM, then it is a MM to me, whether it has lamp sockets or not.

Well, that's a $8-$10K question, isn't it? Completely subjective. To some, without the Williams logo that is on all sides of the original and shown on the DMD display, it doesn't look like a MM already. Will it play like a MM? That we will see. I have a 60 games in 1 board in my multicade. My friends and relatives can't tell any difference between the games: Pacman, Donkey Kong, frogger, Galaga...etc vs the original dedicated machines, but most classic arcade video game collectors can.

Don't want to jump into any early conclusion, so only time will tell.

#125 5 years ago
Quoted from gprotein:

I have a 60 games in 1 board in my multicade.

Those are cheap emulations, I've got one and actually love it - very nice to have multiple games taking up the footprint of one upright dedicated cab. PPS hold the rights to the original Williams stuff, code included, no reason to think game play will be off. There will be some differances sure, but the Williams logo missing on the cab art won't bother me a tiny little bit as my pins are crammed together so close I never see the side art anyway.

#126 5 years ago

Assuming they play the same - the only reason I can think of to want an original is if you hate LEDs and must have incandescents in your game. We should call the original MMIE (Incandescent Edition)

#127 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Assuming they play the same - the only reason I can think of to want an original is if you hate LEDs and must have incandescents in your game. We should call the original MMIE (Incandescent Edition)

Or if you hate the soldered in warm white LEDs and you want to bling out the game with bright colored LEDs. Also, will ColorDMD ever be made available? I assume so eventually.

#128 5 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

Not sure about Wayne but not true about JJP. They are accepting $1000 down in the form of a check to hold a game.

Don't get confused on the point being made:

JJP makes WOZ - full money owed.

JJP resells MMR - $1000 down.

#129 5 years ago
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

Sorry The MMR (Copy) is not coming out of the SAME Williams factory.

Keep the facts straight:

The new MMR is being manufactured in the SAME factory that made the playfield and cabinet for the ORIGINAL WILLIAMS MM.

Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

Shit... Williams don't even want their name on it

Of course they don't want their logo on it, they are not making it.

#130 5 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

Or if you hate the soldered in warm white LEDs and you want to bling out the game with bright colored LEDs. Also, will ColorDMD ever be made available? I assume so eventually.

I wonder if the warm white refers to the GI or inserts or both? Warm in the GI is a good idea, but I'd rather have cool white in the white inserts. *shrug* ...I'm sure if it's a color temp people don't like, someone will make a replacement board!

#131 5 years ago

The inserts will be color matched, the GI, warm white.

#132 5 years ago

One just listed and sold at 6k on CL in my area. I posted a screen shot it in another post

ETA Screen shot

Quoted from Whysnow:

All you guys that really think original MMs are magically worth less than 8k, please find me a SINGLE nice condition fully working MM right now for that price.

Quoted from rvdv:

It will never drop below 9 K, mark my words

144146.jpg

#133 5 years ago

I find it funny how many of you are so gullible that you believe those troll Pinside and Clist posts.

I have not seen a single real MM for sale for a reduced price since the announcement. For the sake of all that order I really hope that you get your games in a timely fashion, they play just as well as the originals, and you enjoy them. Let me know when you are having a fire sale for some of your B listers. If the price of MM dropped significantly then so did all your other games.
"If a NIB MMR is only 8k then your HUO B lister is now only worth 1500 again (maybe less)"

You never know what may get reproduced next. Sell now, sell cheap, sell to me

#134 5 years ago

Doesn't bother me im sticking with pin3k,does mm original or re-make have a space elevator?I don't think so!

#136 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

You never know what may get reproduced next. Sell now, sell cheap, sell to me

Sell them to me! You're out of room!

#137 5 years ago

Seems like guys who couldnt afford MM's or didnt have MM's in the past are gloating now.

I think original MM values has been impacted for sure, but $7-8k for an average one seems reasonable.

#138 5 years ago

Rumor on the street is that you have to pay to get rid of an original medieval madness nowadays. -$10K by christmas.

#139 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Keep the facts straight:
The new MMR is being manufactured in the SAME factory that made the playfield and cabinet for the ORIGINAL WILLIAMS MM.

Of course they don't want their logo on it, they are not making it.

Yes I know the playfield & cab come from the SAME supplier, but my point was at who I quoted that this is not a 2nd 3rd run of the SAME pin coming out of the SAME factory

#140 5 years ago
Quoted from rvdv:

It will never drop below 9 K, mark my words

never is a very long time

#141 5 years ago
Quoted from nhm:

It's idiotic to think that MM will not lose value. Is an "original" 1st run Stern worth more than a brand new 3rd run? No, because IT'S THE SAME GAME, and the newer one is....well....NEW!

Bad example: Same game from the same manufactuer.

My original *prototype* MM will not lose value. I bought it in 2001 for $4500. So mine actually INCREASED in value!

Stop being malicious and stop *assuming* that every MM owner has a HEP version.

#142 5 years ago

Whatever a MM is worth now will change the moment the first MMR hits the street and is evaluated. Then we are gonna have to go through this whole damn thread again.

If MMR build quality matches/exceeds Williams. (It should be at least as good using OEM parts)
If the new board set plays as well and holds up (no reason to think it won't out perform the old tech).
If original code plays correctly and is upgraded (to support shaker, LED's Etc).

If all of those pan out, (and at $8k they damn well better) then I can think of no reason anyone would want a MM over a MMR at all, unless it's just a collector's pride thing. Not me, Don't give two craps about pedigree, i just like playing pinball. Not bashing on the originals, best pin ever! Just saying if those three things happen, then originals' price will seriously tank hard. I would still buy one, but only if it was in comparable quality to and MUCH cheaper than a used MMR.
Sorry owners, cold hard truth.
If I owned a MM right now would I be upset that my Pin "investment" just plummeted? Yeah, of course I would. So would all of us, be honest. The things ain't cheap and that kind of $ is not chump change to most of us. So yeah, I feel bad for the owners who feel they got shit on by the remakes. (Not so bad for the hoarders/speculator/flippers tho, they are one of the reasons the things are so much $ in the first place)
Sorry for the rant folks, just my 2 credits here, and F-ing happy that I'll be able to pick up a used MM or MMR in a couple years. Been a long wait for a pin I never thought I'd be able to afford, now at long last, I know I will finally get one eventually.

light_at_end_of_tunnel.jpg

#143 5 years ago
Quoted from zippydapinhead:

F-ing happy that I'll be able to pick up a used MM or MMR in a couple years.

+1 Going to be hard to wait. But I see the light.

#144 5 years ago
Quoted from zippydapinhead:

Whatever a MM is worth now will change the moment the first MMR hits the street and is evaluated.
If MMR build quality matches/exceeds Williams....

It's a good thing this is not an investment.

#145 5 years ago
Quoted from Magic_Mike:

It's a good thing this is not an investment

If you buy the pin to keep and enjoy, then who cares what it's resale is anyway, it's not for sale - therefore...priceless.

Very nice collection BTW.

#147 5 years ago

Don't see things changing that much here. A new repro will cost NZ$13.5k to land which is not a lot less than I paid for mine.

#148 5 years ago
Quoted from zippydapinhead:

If you buy the pin to keep and enjoy, then who cares what it's resale is anyway, it's not for sale - therefore...priceless.

Exactly why I bought my one.

#149 5 years ago
Quoted from pauloz:

Exactly why I bought my one.

Amen brother. Hope your WOZ gets there quick after your bad experience.

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