I agree with you. Avengers and Maiden both have deep code and interesting shots, but the way they are presented to a player is way different.

My take on maiden is that any random player, whether total novice or an experienced pinballer, can have a lot of fun from the start without knowing any of the rules. The highlights and callouts are clear and the shots intuitive enough to get rolling and feel like they're making actual progress on the game after a few plays. Optimizations like how to stack different modes, time different collects and ride the multipliers to get crazy high scores and unlock wizard modes are everywhere, but if you focus on playing good pinball you'll learn them naturally over time by playing and have a good time doing it. When I watched a few videos of top tier players, there were a lot of comments like "oh that's a good idea" as far as shot orders or how to stack something, but nothing that stood out as "I never would have figured that out ever."

First time I played avengers, after 10-20 games I was hitting more shots than the first game but scores were low and I didn't feel I was making progress, and following a lot of the callouts/indicators actually felt like it was making matters worse. So then I went and watched a few videos of that and it was all about ordering the extra-action-button modes and making shots that the callouts/lights weren't drawing attention to. I don't want or expect the callouts to guide me through an optimal play strategy, but following them should feel rewarding and it certainly shouldn't feel like a *bad* approach.

With each new release, I've had a growing ire for the extra action button. It's feeling more and more like a solution in search of a problem, rather than a desirable feature that makes the game better. The first few games that had it felt like a tacked on novelty with barely any purpose at all and in some games literally didn't in early code. The only instance where I've felt like maybe they found a truly novel use for it is stealing balls from the TK lock on stranger things premium/le.

Now on avengers it seems to have swung the other way, where the path to feeling productive is memorizing a bunch of non-intuitive extra shots in the modes that you select and rearrange with the extra action button. It's certainly made the eab a core function of the game, but is that good when trying to learn? It feels like I'm taking shots at random and not learning as I go. Pre-learning the rules feels more or less mandatory to feel any progression at all.

It's hard to discuss without coming off a lot angrier/ranty than I really am. I agree with your point about it being a potentially cool decision about whether it's safe to take a hand off the flippers, but the way it seems to be playing out is they've just made it part of the standard cab design and attach something to it whether it improves the game or not (or makes it worse).

A perfect example might be the magna save on SOR. Love it or hate it, magna save is tradition on BK and it would have been fine on SOR as a second button near the flipper button. Moving it to the center on SOR means that it's out of reach the one time you need it as your hands are glued to the side trying save a drain with flipper tricks/nudging.

I'll give them credit for the TK lock steal on Stranger Things, but it's only on the Premium and only came in a later code update. I've pointed it out a few times to players far better than I am as an actual cool feature and each time they didn't even know about it. The base functionality of killing a single gorgon as well as the super tranq on JP are basically a free spot when you brick a critical shot rather than an interesting decision.

AIQ it feels like they actually thought about it from the start and I know some people like that one but I find it breaks me out of the zone scrolling through menus mid-game. AIQ has other issues in my book, so its hard to pin down how much of it is the eab vs the other issues. It at least doesn't feel tacked on but it still feels like it was dictated by it's presence in the existing cab that they designed around rather than being inspired by the game it's in.

I'll take your word for it on Deadpool as I failed to find one before corona shut down everything and now that it's lifiting every time I go to a place that has one it ends up being out of order.

I'd never heard that about the start button but it makes sense. Whenever I go to some random location to play for a few hours there's always a few people putting a few quarters into a game without one then hunting around for a minute trying to figure out how to start the game before someone points it out to them or they go looking for a mechanic.

You joke but... Modular stuff like P3 and stern's Home editions don't just don't scratch the itch, but it's a stretch to fit one cab in my house. More than one is impossible.

If stern announced a black cab with power & node boards and then sold complete populated playfields identical to the ones they ship in the pros for recent/future games that you could swap like a nintendo cartridge in the time it takes to slide out the glass and attach a wiring harness you'd have lot of takers.

I don't have any illusions they will do it for that reason in addition to how radically it could alter the landscape for their existing buyers if it caught on. I think if they announced it in September they'd have distributors and large collectors rioting and mass cancellations of people waiting on one machine on the no longer sure they could trade for another down the line. They'd also sell out of the first allotment of cabs/playfields before a single one shipped.

Doctor Who: Villain of the Week confirmed.

Do battle with spiders, mummies, inflatable recliners, shakesperian characters and dozens of other iconic villians that aren't encumbered by memorable performers, exclusive IP deals or other complex licensing issues.

Featuring 6 modes where the rules, points and objectives are all randomly generated each game. Players who manage to activate all 6 but brick every single shot within can unlock a "Exposition Final Battle" wizard mode. The flippers deactivate allowing the player to sit back and experience an increasingly gaudy lightshow narrated by the doctor in which he recounts all the mistakes it took the player to get here but none of that matters because he believes in them. After a few minutes the enemies explode and the player is awarded 5 billion points.

Each LE comes with it's own villain bash toy specific to that game only. Each is individually constructed with two random mechs bolted together with up to 10 other parts pulled at random from 50 years worth of spare parts bins lying around the factory.

(yes, I grew up watching the originals)

They're for attaching things to the playfield to make it feel like an authentic classic doctor who set.. Suggestions are pieces of bubble wrap, garbage bags and the unique connectors on all the different wall adapters from before everything went to usb you've been keeping in a storage bin just in case you ever figure out what they go to.

That info has been available to distributors for awhile. If yours didn't know that, you probably should start shopping for a new one if you want any hope of getting in on the first run.

Just thinking about a few different recent and old titles, its clear that can be all over the map depending on how the original contracts were written and/or how amicable/expensive the actors are to new work/use of their likeness. Stranger Things is basically a full integration. AIQ rides the timing of the movie but doesn't use the actors. JP (Stern) is clearly the 90s movie but the only original likeness/voice is Nedry. The character art in BTTF (Data East) is so strikingly different from the actors that it seems deliberate to avoid any claim of likeness.

Closest I could see to actually having all 6 (or 7 if they include the next) in a bond game is something like Doctor Who. A drawing that kinda resembles each attached to a perk/objective, but not extended visuals/voice acting. 3 scenarios that all seem more likely to navigate the licensing gauntlet are a hand drawn generic bond vs villian(s), a theme inspired by the Craig films with some callouts from the original actors for Bond, M or Q or a they use the next movie/actor for a tight integration that comes out near the release of the film.

The fact they pulled that deal off at all shows it's possible, but the amount of money in the slot industry is truly staggering. In just the month Mohegan Sun posted that ad their slot machines took in 47.6 million (edit: 42.5 mil, 47.6 was the previous October) more than they paid out, let alone all the other games they run.

Excluding peak covid, that's a pretty standard month for them over the last 10 years, and that's just one casino. I'm sure if someone called up Stern and asked for a quote on a custom run 5000 LE's, they could have pretty much any theme they wanted.

Warning PDF: https://portal.ct.gov/-/media/DCP/GAMING/pdfs/Mosltweb-pdf.pdf

That really is the only right answer.

The hero we needed.

You'd think it would be boilerplate, but they use different verbiage on different preorders in addition to some of it looking like it might be old preorder pages from initial runs that didn't necessarily get properly updated when brought back online for newer runs. I don't think it's intentional, but it's ambiguous. If it was a contract review a lawyer would insist it be rewritten to be clear before they'd approve it.

How close to that was when mando was first announced/starting to ship? There's always been flipping, rushes, scams and whatnot at any point I've paid attention in the last 20 years, but that was the first time that I had friends otherwise totally outside the pinball community reach out to me (their pinball friend) to ask what the hell was going on because they heard something crazy about pinball/mando selling for 5 digit values, like the FOMO was big enough to leak in to the public sphere a little.

Felt like a lot of usually non-interested people were paying attention/considering the idea they could own a pinball for the first time and a corresponding influx of machines appearing on the secondary market at astronomical prices just to see if anyone would bite.

Smaller overall production than a normal one. Still usually has 3 trim levels, but the lowest one is called premium and has trim comparable to a premium. Medium will be an LE with a few hundred machines. Highest will have a name like super-limited or signature with 50-100 machines that costs a fortune with even more trim upgrades and usually some special extras like a meet and greet with adam west (batman 66, I think the normal LE included that too) or a piece of velvet from Elvira's couch (Elvira's house of horrors).

Sometimes, but not always, the theme will be something that is very attractive to some buyers (who can afford it) but without the mass market appeal of the normal titles. They might have more/unique mechs/toys than typical. BM66 and EHoH felt pretty typical to me when I played them, though I only had a few games on each. I know EHOH has a lot of fans who swear by it. Beatles wasn't something I'd buy even at normal pricing, but I did appreciate how it felt like an old style machine made with modern tech.

One of the biggest draws of pinball is that its one of the last forms of interactive entertainment that is laser focused on in-person experience. Just you against the machine in front of you and whoever else is there in the moment. Each machine a self-contained world under glass, a little different with it's own settings, tweaks and randomness with a local community of players competing against themselves or for grand champion with the other scores lost to time.

The extra cost is annoying but if that's all it was I'd just disable it. It is not that simple. When design philosophy shifts towards maximizing engagement to sell distant players to one another as content it will come at cost of the things that make these machines truly unique. Treasure it now.

Can the hardware be removed from machines that have it preinstalled and moved to another machine? If so, when the machines that have been backordered since long before this was announced finally ship, there will be plenty of people who don't have any use for it happy to sell it if it recovers some of the price increase between the original ship date and the actual one.

Welcome to Iron Maiden v. 1.08, built 10/2021, sponsored by Mountain Dew. Are you sure you want to disable your QR reader? To continue, please drink a verification can.

Have all the Mando LE's shipped yet? I assume they have, but there's people waiting on other Mandos that were ordered on/within days of announcement.

If/until they figure out how to catch up with their backlog it's just rearranging the deck chairs anyway. Every LE shipped is another pro/premium that didn't get made, and every (whatever the new title is) shipped is just another months backordered title from the last year that gets pushed back farther or never fulfilled at all.

I'm starting to doubt I'll see my July run maiden this year or at all and I'm far from the worst off in that category. A month back when I checked in with my distributor, I jokingly said that I'd heard their backlog was "over 9000", his response was "closer to 12000." True or not, it's a deep backlog.

I don't begrudge people being excited for the next thing as this is firmly on Stern, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't annoyed thinking about all the machines getting delayed even further to make room on the line for a title that hasn't even been announced yet. Supply chain issues are one thing, but it feels scummy to push back/cut committed runs for new ones regardless of what CYA they've got in their contracts with distributors.

I agreed with this when I first read it but the first matrix trailer dropped today and I love baseless speculation.

I could totally believe they planned to release that last Christmas and would start to release more details under nda on a need-to-know basis. By now, they expected to have the second trailer out and the third not far off. The promotional/licensing blitz would be redlining giving away most/all of the major plot points of the movie other than the ending/final battle. The perfect time to slot in the pinball machine which will almost entirely be based on information already available in the trailers. The ending? A wizard mode that won't even be implemented until a code update after the movie has released.

Then normal movie production issues along with covid delays throw everything into flux and the licensing/promotional people are in triage mode 24/7. They have to release a few details they'd prefer not to so the art/toys/callouts can be planned, but Stern doesn't need much as the general design of a matrix pinball game writes itself.

Sunday night the trailer is finalized and scheduled for youtube premier on Thursday. Monday morning their social media intern uses their only day off this year to browse twitter and sees the buzz about Stern's Big Announcement(TM), realizes this stupid pinball company is going to ruin everything and starts burning down phones until they find someone to call Gary and tell him in no uncertain terms they have to reschedule the reveal for next week.

So is Godzilla Godzilla or is Godziilla a codename for "We're finally making a Matrix Pin. A cultural phenom that anyone more than casually interested in pinball between 98 and the mid 2000s thought about how it would play whether they liked the movies or not, and every professional and aspiring designer likely has a pitch for just in case it ever comes up, let alone Elwin who won his first PAPA world championship the same year the original released."

Don't know about that but seeing Barenaked Ladies mentioned I can't help but think that if you wanted to troll the hell out of the current pinball market "If I Had A Million Dollars" would make for an epic LE only wizard mode.

If the games are well maintained I wouldn't blink. I'm betting yours are. The typical location machine, not so much.

For myself and I suspect many others the only way to rationalize buying machines NiB or Used is access to a machine that is actually dialed in, maintained and plays as intended. It's certainly not about saving money. Don't see too many HUO machines up for sale that have the 3500-5000+ plays it would take to recoup just the coin drop from playing on location. Most get sold under well under 1000, and the 1 in a hundred that doesn't it's the person who found their dream machine and bolted it to the floor.

/applaud

I hope it gets more typical. As it is, more than once I've been at a locations that have a great collection but it's all unplayable due to deterioration. $100 for some rubbers and a flipper rebuild every few years is too much for them, even if the labor is free (yes, I've offered).

I realize I'm riding a teeny boat in a very large ocean having only recently bought my first NiB after 40ish years of renting boats for 5 minutes at a time and the occasional project boat full of water. I worked hard and sacrificed a lot to get here as I'm sure most of you have. Still, I feel quite fortunate I was able to get my dream boat.

I think this thread and others like it are a lot more fun when we focus our wild speculation, inside jokes, pet theories, boat/tide metaphors, dick-measuring and the delightful bitching that comes with them on killer pinball themes, BOM lists, designer drama and the perfect pink powdercoat to spray on our boats rather than broad macroeconomic theories and how the needs, motivations and worldviews of people who can't afford boats do or do not impact our boat hobby.

I'd rather have Weird Al but I'd be all over that. If they put Elwin on that I'm good for an LE.

I seem to remember that on at least one of the premium+ titles(Batman 66?) the SLE was by invite only. A few release cycles from now when insider online has more penetration, I could totally believe they make the LE's invite only for the first 24 hours based on some mix of data involving play on location/home and/or current machine ownership.

Even if the actual requirements are minimal it's adds more friction to flipping which is already a high friction transaction and more or less ensures any holdouts/minimal users amongst the heavy wallet crowd enroll themselves and their collection, sign in every time they play and push any locations/friends collections they frequent to do the same. That sort of incentive for members is pretty standard for both collectibles and online engagement systems.

The entire package... story, art and sound/music all lend themselves to pinball and at the time a straight up blockbuster with broad appeal across both typical pinball demographics and the general public. The high level design practically writes itself. I think most people with no interest in the theme themselves would agree.

The movie came out in '99 as the industry utterly imploded. The prime time to start designing it would have been while the 2nd and 3rd movies were in production in 2000-2003. If it had come out in '94 or '04 we would have seen at least one.

I just assume every designer who was active in the 90s till now rolled it around in their head enough that they have an elevator pitch if they ever get asked to do it, and I'm sure several dusted it off again when the impending 4th movie was announced.

Right up to the end of the 90s pins based on action and scifi movies were all over the place. DE and Sega were churning them out and B/W doing quite a few as well including Williams last gasp with the Episode 1 Pinball2K.

Stern 2.0 was finding it's way on smaller licenses and it wasn't clear yet they would survive, let alone handle a license that big. In 2003 the latter 2 movies came out. That same year Stern delivered 3 huge licenses in TSPP, LOTR and Terminator 3. They were clearly capable of it at that point, but with the more mixed reception of the later 2 films and no more on the horizon the prime window was closed.

The 4th movie 20 years later isn't a guaranteed pin with all the manufacturers unable to keep up with their current licenses and the uncertainty of how the movie will be received but it's surely being discussed if someone hasn't secured the license and started on it already.

Stern seems intent on developing ~3 cornerstones year + special projects and they have no trouble selling out their entire production capacity + vaults if needed. As long as that is their model the size of the fan base for a specific theme doesn't matter as much as cost for the ip and how it overlaps other active licenses. Pins are expensive, large durable goods. Few are willing & able to buy every single one even if they are all perfect dream themes.

When Stern picks a theme over something that seems obvious it's because that's not the goal. They're asking "Does this IP have enough demand to sell out a few runs before the license runs out and what other sales is it going to cannibalize?" If they overestimate demand it ends as WWE/Beatles. If they underestimate demand they just slot in another run. Multiple niches cover many more customers than a generic target buyer.

When I bought IMDN friends were happy for me but clearly thought I was crazy. Rush doesn't do anything for me but I'm out of the market for awhile anyway. Over the weekend I mentioned it was likely up next and one of those friends immediately reacted in a way I can only describe as "Shut Up And Take My Money." I'm happy for him and saving a seat in asylum.

Now I can't stop thinking about taking a pin who's callouts/story are centered around directly antagonizing the player and re-theming it. Replace all the abuse from the King of Payne or the Black Knight with moral support and backhanded compliments along with an art package of drab browns and greys that explode with soft pastel unicorn vomit when things happen.

"You drained your ball, that's nothing to be ashamed of!"

"You could fill two internets with what I don't know about pinball."

Draining right after the ball save expires: “You know what the happiest animal on earth is? It’s a goldfish. You know why? It’s got a 10-second memory.”

Bricking a hurryup until it's at the minimum value: "The harder you work, the luckier you get.”

Tilting: "I never know how to react when a grown man beatboxes in front of me."

Replay knocker replaced with "Knock-a-doodle-doo!"

I wouldn't include Batman66 or EHOH in that comparison since they aren't cornerstones and have unique pricing and BOM constraints. No pro, unlimited premiums, LE, SLE and a later unique run.

Batman66 had 240 LEs 80 SLEs and later the first 100 catwoman signature editions had an autographed trading card making them limited too. 320/420

EHOH had 400 LEs, 50 SLEs and now has the 40th anniversary edition coming with 199. 450/649

EHOH increased the total limited machines but had 30 fewer SLES.

In order to stiff you, Youtube knows whether someone watched the ad or not. They choose to stream the video either way. This isn't a technological limitation or a theft from their "store." it's a business decision.

They hand it out. They make money through data, analytics and a locked in user base. They're making money off it every time. The ads are gravy.

Rather than pay you for your work, they blame people who paid exactly the price they offered. Then they ask you to do more work for free, harassing their customers into paying more than their asking price. If and only if works, they toss you a few crumbs of the additional profit.

They're exploiting you. Twice.

You're right. I don't like it, but you're right. Mea Culpa.

Rush is iconic, but as far as history/catalog vs foo fighters a big part of that is the age of the band. Discounting side projects during Nirvana, FF's didn't really get going until the mid 90s. No idea what Foo Fighters catalog will look like 25 years from now, but it makes perfect sense for pushing pinball to a younger market without tilting the old guard.

Late GenX & early millennials are 35-45 now hitting the point where they're a growing population of the home and location market. Beyond music, David Grohl also has a following in even younger crowds with a social media presence as an over-the-top guy who does nice stuff for people, fans and non-fans alike.

At the same time, they're still clearly a rock band like most music pins, so an easier sell to existing buyers who might be more skeptical of a genre/style that hit mainstream while their kids were in high school.

Rush/Zepplin/Kiss were already big by the time they were born. If they became superfans it started during a later surge in popularity or digging through a cool uncle's record collection.

Metallica/Maiden were hitting a (first) peak during their childhood but they still weren't the target market. Metallica eventually had some mainstream radio play, but if they became fans it started out emulating the interests of an older sibling, either theirs or their friends.

Foo Fighters was directly targeted at them on the radio in middle/high school/college. Even if not into them specifically there's a good chance they saw them live at a festival. The dorm had a superfan who plastered their room with posters and wouldn't shut up about them.

If it gets a hot reception, it opens the door for band pins that break the rock genre. If not, it'll still sell out the first runs and the later runs will be backordered until the license expires, with any dips in sales bridged with BTTF "Back to 1985" edition. A late announced SSSSSLE with 88 individually numbered machines and easily affordable to anyone who has a sports almanac and access to a time machine.

BTTF, Foo Fighters and Pokemon confirmed?

Turn your phone off and stick in a drawer. Go camping for a long weekend deep in the woods or mountains somewhere in the midwest.

While you're gone have a friend who lives in NYC, LA or another coastal city far from wherever you live take a few random photos in places like Times Square and tag you in them on your preferred social media site. While they're there, have them search the same site for a few random products neither of you have any interest in.

When you get home, log in and you'll be blasted with ads for 3 things. Whatever luxury brand was doing an advertising blitz in that city that week, whatever random products your friend clicked on and travel/tourism packages for whatever city they are in.