"Experience" , yeah sure , but the machine itself , no .
I used to say that my pinball machine was worth more than my car but apparently that has gone up 5 fold .
I paid $15490 for my GnR and with the extras I put in it , I could get 20k for it now , so totally worth it in my opinion .
Now if I had a Godzilla or Tron LE I'd be laughing all the way to the bank .

"At 15K very few locations will be interested in having one as it wil take a long while to get 15000 plays on one to start making money.
As a collector myself, I am also not interested in a 15K machine".

That would be 15k if you can get it directly from Stern or a distributor.....more realistic would be 20k+ from the secondary market.

My point was if Stern is going to do it, don’t skimp. Sure make a pro for being on route or to hit a price point, but for me and a theme that wont be revisited for a long time if ever, pack it (LE). And if the price has to go up in order to reach a high BOM then do it! I’d rather pay for a fully integrated mechanical masterpiece then settle on a “what could of been great” pin to save a few bucks. There are so many unbelievably great assets to use for toys, sculpts, mechs etc that it would be a shame to end up with cake toppers a la TS4.

A fully integrated mechanical masterpiece? This is still the Stern hype thread right? Lol.

"I'd rather pay more for XXX title done right..."

-Stern raises prices-

Half of Pinside "Pinsanity! Pins used to cost $4,000 new! Delivered! With tax!"
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The other half of pinside on the phone with their distros "Put me down for 3 LEs"
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Lol. Totally. That is why I prefaced with this “I dont want to set us up for failure because I have so many ideas for this pin that my expectations might exceed reality.” Hence, a dream theme.

I bet there were plenty of die hard disney/TS/Lawlor fans that thought his final JJP/TS was going to be his swan song masterpiece. *Sad noises

I think Godzilla Prem/LE qualifies...?

It certainly has the most mechs of any Stern…maybe IMDN prem and EHOH are close? I view Stern as the company that makes the best rules and code. I never really expect for them to go mech heavy because they are able to make engaging games without all the “stuff” I also tend to care less about toys and more about rule sets.

NOW you're talkin'! More body means more action! More flow! More McFlys! Also I have a soft spot for classic widebody pins...

Maybe they could just use the guy who wore the mask of his face in the second film?

Definitely checks a lot of boxes. In showbiz they say “the money is on the screen” when they use their budget to the fullest and put it all out there. Innovation and risk plus passion and attention to detail can create some awesome results. Elwin and the team did awesome with GZ and is being rewarded as such with sales and praise (# 1 rank).

I also give it to Stern for having some of the best flipper feel. I personally have trouble with JJP games where the flippers feel like wet noodles.

Sterns are definitely snappy but I prefer Bally WMS (and oddly enough Spooky flippers feel amazing to me because they use all Bally WMS parts. My ACNC and HWN are like buttery smooth feel with amazing drop catch sensitivity) I hate the JJP weak flipper feel too.

Sitting here in the hotel bar in the pinball wasteland that is Bellevue, WA (shocking) listening to WuTang radio on Spotify wishing for a hip hop pin and then… why doesn’t stern just make a generic music pin teamed up with Spotify or Touchtunes? Basically a jukebox you play. Put some proper speakers in it or link it to the bar sound system. Then we’re all happy… unless someone plays ABBA.

I can agree with this. When I go back to my Getaway and Scared Stiff, I'm like "godamn this feels good". Could be the stainless steel lockdown bar though...

Why can’t we have both in a game? At this point in age it’s what is deserved for a game, stop cutting us short. Maiden needed more than just shots In it and left some of the features of original Archer game. But the middle shot should have shot through the back no excuses for extra let’s say $100 or more or whatever per game, why cut it short, no special toys bugs the shit out of me, yes it s fun, fast and I wanted made but missing opportunities.

It is exactly that.

He was sitting there thinking "those fuckin' nerds on Pinside are gonna eat this up!!"

And how many 80’s dads will buy his game rather than fork out $ for Forky.

They should consider a widebody pin. Think about all the stuff they could put on that playfield. Bigger canvas for endless possibilities.

Unfortunately that’s not Sterns business model. And not JJP’s now either.

This is what the management reads:

“Think about all the (expensive mechs and R&D that would be required to fill that playfield). Bigger canvas for endless (BOM blowouts).”

I love wide bodies as much anyone but can you imagine the cost?

We're already paying it, we're just not getting it.

I think Gomez has shot down wide bodies in the past saying that they never shoot right. He does have a point there.

Totally agree.

I like widebody pins and would welcome another. 16 titles have been released since 1993.

Bally / Williams / Midway produced 7 in total: TZ, IJ, JD, STTNG, Demolition Man, Popeye and RS.

Sega / Data East released 3: Batman Forever, GNR and WWF Royal Rumble. So Stern has yet to release any and I don’t think they will start.

Full Throttle and Alien are Heighway’s 2 examples.

WOZ, Hobbit and POTC are JJP’s 3 examples.

When Pinball Brothers revamped Alien, they kept it a widebody, so PB has 1 example with Alien.

From this list, only 2 manufacturers survived, JJP and Pinball Brothers. Of these, JJP is best positioned to make more widebodies in the future since they have done it from scratch three times already. They should have necessary tooling and understand how to get it done. The biggest obstacle is the need for a thicker playfield to carry the added weight of an extra 2.5 inches of width and presumably an extra toy.

Count me in the “who cares” club about widebodies. I like Genie, Big Game, Flight 2K, and TZ… but to be honest (other than TZ) it feels like the play on the other three could have been improved with a standard size playfield.

I think it would be cool if Stern released a widebody but I think it would really require a designer to be fully behind the idea and have something unique in mind to take advantage of the format. I feel like a lot of designers, when speaking on their experience making the WMS SuperPins machines, have criticized the use of the format as a gimmick. However, I feel like if a designer was given a lot of freedom to do some interesting and unique things with some cool toys, you could actually make something really cool that utilizes the extra space.

It won't happen, but it could make for a cool one-off idea.

Jack Danger has said on streams that Stern has a few "hard rules" for design at the moment with the basics being things like 4 legs, minimum of 2 flippers, and fits in the standard cabinet design. "No wide-bodies" seems to be a hard and fast rule for the time being, according to a current Stern designer.

In other words, Eric M and JJPOTC, one of my favorite games of all time!

In the "ever-reaching" arc of this thread to make random assumptions about why a pinball should be created to correlate with inane reasoning, here is my entry:

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So since the next stern pin has been confirmed as South Park do you think they will do an included topper like the 1999 version or do you think it will be extra?

Tomorrow’s the big reveal, right?!?! New cornerstone in august they said! Can’t wait until 12:01am when the announcement is made!

No. Expect it to be any Tuesday.

Teaser Tuesday followed by full trailer reveal on Friday?

sorry folks its been leaked Gen X wins ,Stern will introduce Peppa Pig.Get your Le

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What ever the next is for me personally I hope its one of these 2 things. 1) A theme I do not like so I can save money for the next. 2) Its an amazing theme that my wife also likes and tells me that it should of been bought yesterday.

We'd expect Stern to do the announcement when the production line is ready to go for it. According to the latest schedule in the "what's on the line" thread, it's Godzilla currently, then Star Wars, then the new cornerstone. The announcement should come in mid August after Star Wars is through the line.

No. Most all Stern announcements been on a Tuesday.

The list is not in order it just shows what games are scheduled to be built during that month.

I spotted this at The former DeLorean mansion turned golf course this week. More signs it is happening!

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Wouldn’t it be quite the uproar if Keith Elwin designed a widebody BTTF pin and forced Kaminkow / Stern to make it as is? Oh boy, that is the kind of disruptive event that could change the course of history. All right it is 2pm and time to make a second round of Sunday cocktails.

My fav recipe - fill 1/2 metal shaker with ice. Add 1 oz oj, 9 oz Jose Cuervo traditional repossado, 6 oz old smoky tenn lemon drop moonshine and 5 oz tres agaves organic margarita mix. Add the top and shake vigorously for 5 sec. Remove cap and pour into 2 cocktail glasses.

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Some designers struggled with wide bodies but plenty of the shoot great…STTNG, IJ, and TZ are great shooters and have flow to go with their loaded Mechs.

I've never had any complaints about they way my RS shoots. Not exactly loaded with mechs either.

RS has a lot of mechs counting Red and Ted heads as bash toys (2), shooting into both mouths (2) and a bull dozer blade in front of Ted (1). Add the turnaround shot to barrels to start a shakefest (1). That’s a good amount if not, then at least average

Indiana Jones is the best example of a widebody done well. jjPotC is right behind. TZ and WoZ are also well done. All the others I could take or leave. I would prefer JJP to just do widebodies since they have a good track record with them and Hogbog is a widebody design monster. Let him roam. That Pat Lawlor narrow body-only religion can retire with him.

George Gomez:

I didn’t know then but in my opinion, wide-bodies are inherently flawed. The kinetics are compromised. Shots outside the standard 20.25“ width are weak shots, given the available stroke on standard flippers. The stroke of a flipper is approx. 50 degrees. You can rotate the entire flipper to help that but then you compromise the shots in the center of the playfield. One constraint is that the flipper is a lever and it accelerates thru its arc of travel as a function of the force applied by the solenoid. The position of the ball on the flipper, combined with its weight and velocity when you engage the solenoid, is what determines the direction of the shot. All of the widebodies I’ve played feel really soft on those outside shots and fairly unsatisfying. The reason the older ones from the 70’s and before feel fine, is because the nature of those old games was slower and the ball was what we now call “floaty”. Neil Falconer who was a software developer at the earliest versions of our company, used to say: “when the company you work at starts talking about making wide bodies, its time to dust off the resume because they are a recipe for disaster”.

https://thepinballchick.com/2021/03/05/the-pinball-chick-interview-george-gomez/

Stern, you can hire me later... but why not experiment with a flipper design that rotates greater than 50° whose further travel is controlled by a second cabinet button? You could add another 10-20° to reach the wide shots and make the center with power. Burn me at the stake if you must for heresy but I’m an out of the box thinker.

Two separate flipper buttons on each side is a disaster. Ask Weird Al players.

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Keep it all on one button. Increase the stroke 10 degrees on the widebody flipper mechs if necessary. But honestly, I never felt like I was missing something playing jjPotC or Indiana Jones. All the shots felt makeable with enough power. Eric didn't put any ramps at the edges of the PF that would be hard to hit with enough power.

Because everybody loves weird flippers???

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