And the screams from Micheal Antony? That would work.

Never thought of this but would be amazing for pinball. Or make it”through the looking glass” themed instead. That kind of wierdness would be awesome in a pin

I'm basically resigned to the fact that licenses work.

But that said, if you want to make a go at not using one you can't just have your theme be "not a license" and call it a day. You need to develop everything to be cool and matter and all work together to grab an audience.

Theme matters, big time, licensed or unlicensed. If your game is "uh, the engineers made up a story and we got a guy to draw something so we wouldn't have to pay a license" then that's not going to grab everyone. Not saying Dialed In is that, but it's got elements of that in it.

Also, you have to remember to make a good shooting game, with cool mechs and toys. And good sound, and rules, and and and ... There's just not much margin for error without the nostalgia or built in-marketing appeal of a license.

The truth is licenses not only sell, they sell sometimes despite not nailing it. If your game is unlicensed I think you gotta hit a homerun. With a great license you can still score off a double.

With all the risks in pinball, and frankly all the work making a good unlicensed game takes in terms of developing story and assets, why not take the safe path with a license? I get it.

Original themes don't sell just on the strength of being an "original theme" alone I think is more accurate. If a game came out now that was a new AFM, with that level of theme integration across toys and art and callouts and humor etc? I think it could do great. There's just not the same appetite for doing that kind of work now it seems. Or maybe just not for taking that kind of risk.

It's like asking for "hand drawn art" on games. That's great, but if it's not well drawn nobody is going to give it points for trying. Just fulfilling the letter of the law isn't enough, you have to get the spirit of what people want too.

Rumoured what we are all hearing

Borg design rehash.
Dwight on code.
Paddle bat targets.

Sounds like a disaster out of the gate.

Don’t know if in the face of general misunderstanding JJP has ever explained why they called the game as it.
Anyway each time I hear about this game I can’t help thinking to this stupid SIM card shot.

So, 2 mono targets.

Makes a lot of sense when you think about it.

One of each side.

lanes (resized).jpg

Like the one used in the original Data East TMNT? It’s like Stern don’t even try sometimes, not a dream theme but there’s so much you could do with this licence, sewers/subways, ramps dropping below the playfield or just cool ramps like a corkscrew or something a little different.

If your going to take one feature from the data east game then re use the pop up sewer covers in the playfield, how many games with spinning discs do we need

Fishtails was over 13k sold
Funhouse over 10k sold
Getaway over 13k sold.

All original titles.

Isn't Black Knight unlicensed ?

They (Stern) had to pay a small amount for it.

Have to agree, those Mono target SUCK !
Sorry John.

Fuel in Met forgiven,
But that's it, No more please !

Steve wont use mono's in Zep.....

Led Zep is a game that really has to have drops and plenty of them, thinking WPT amount here.
Riffs galore !!!!!
LZ hoping a split level pf , but guessing single due to nostalgia.

I'm pretty sure John Borg stated he didn't want them mono bars in Munsters, then later tripped over his tongue when discussing them same Munsters bars

Now .....they might also be in his next game.
If so, please don't tell me he doesn't want them

To me that drops credibility big time.
My thoughts.

I don‘t mind them but it depends on how they‘re integrated/ necessary for the rules.

Like, the Targets on DE Turtles could easily be swapped. (Every Turtle had 3 Targets)

The Three 1-2-3 Targets to light the different Locks on my Atlantis, No way.

Try leaving the 90s for an example.
Dialed In
Houdini
Black Knight sor (*kind of)
Americas Most Huanted
Tna
Octoberfest
Raza

With the exception of TNA with it's great rags to riches story, how have the rest of those titles sold? Compare those numbers to pretty much ANY liscensed game. Heck, Munsters probably has better numbers that almost all of those titles and it's no gem no be nice.

What designers sometimes tell is that they know stuff always will be taken out of a design, so you need to put enough in it, so something can be scraped. Maybe it was either this or something else that would have to disappear. I don't like those mono-targets, but I can imagine sometimes it won't change rules and gameplay very much. We can speculate what has stayed because of those monotargets after we see the pics of the playfield

That said: TMNT doesn't do anything for me. Am I excited about a new release anyway? For sure!!!

No modern game, even ones with the best licenses, can compare to production numbers of the past. The whole industry was different back then where the focus was location play. Now, the home user is the driving market. Home users want something special in a pinball with a theme they relate to. Look at all the hype threads. They are all in hope of some licensed theme. Look how many people are willing to drop thousands instantly on a popular theme sight unseen. Theme sells plan and simple.

Munsters is a AAA licensed theme from Universal Studios, using the classic Universal Monsters in a comedy family setting. It is well recognized around the world and is still enjoyed in rerun syndicated TV by millions. Just because a few on Pinside have berated it, doesn’t take away from Munsters licensing power.

The game is an underrated gem, just needs additional material added to the software, which Stern is rumored to be doing in the future. The mono targets on the game was an issue at first with me, but after playing it a lot, I’ve completely forgot about them and it is a non issue now. Can’t say all games should be that way although. I prefer drop targets for sure.

Munsters may be an old TV show, but it’s theme is timeless and still loved by millions around the world. And because of the theme, it still holds up today.

I hope Munsters gets code update that it deserves.
Such a stunning machine

I will back track slightly and suggest that drops are not always appropriate , some times singles are the go. Anything but one great lump of a target,

elv trg (resized).JPG

Ok obvious Munsters owner. I wasnt trying to rag on Munsters but you can at least admit it's a flop in terms of popularity and sales compared to other Stern offering available right now. That being said I still personally find the game very repetitive feeling but I've only played on location so maybe I havent given it a fair try. The callouts and clips are just too repetitive for me to play it more than a couple times and I'm not a fan of lower playfields really. Anyway, I digress, my point was only that Sterns lowest selling current titles sell more than any original IP titles.

While I'm excited to see TMNT, im not huge on the design team up. What I'm more excited about them doing a TMNT game (though it's a clear pinside divide) is the idea that they (Stern) are shifting demographics a bit and aiming more for my age group. I've been lucky that I'm a bit odd and have enjoyed things out of my expected age bracket. I get dream theme games like Batman, Maiden and Metallica but I would love to see a shift to the retro popularity that is my childhood years.
Maybe we will.start to see all.the games people have been suggesting and discussing for years. Themes like TMNT, Goonies, Jaws, Transformers G1, Bill and Ted, Sonic the Hedgehog etc.
Stern always seemed (to me) to aim for the 60s and 70s babies. It's looking like there is a shift to appeal to the 80s/90s babies wallets.
As long as they (Stern) dont go all in and spread their themes out over a few generations, I dont see how this could be anything but good for the hobby. Young blood.
I know Deadpool and Guardians are the biggest hits with the young kids I know locally (as in they dont even play the other games. Ie Attack from Mars, Star Trek, White Water, Iron Maiden, Areosmith)

I think the point is to reference the original, just like Jurassic Park referenced the original, but not to actually repeat the layout and gameplay. Nobody is going to confuse the new game with the Data East version when they're side by side.

I personally have no problem with the idea. If you're going to redo a theme from your own past why not own it? It's not like the Data East TMNT is particularly loved, and everyone is tired of the pizza mech from playing it so much.

I'm not sure Jurassic Park really needed a redo, and yet, the end result is one of Stern's best games. Just let things ride out and see how they go. Just having a third flipper alone radically changes the feel, pizza or not.

I’m not so sure about Munsters being a AAA license. There has been no meaningful development of the Munsters IP in decades and black and white classic shows just don’t get much air time these days, at least in the US. The license did have a fairly recent high end slot machine, so there is that data point to show there is some demand for the IP, but I just don’t encounter Munsters licensed products at places like Hot Topic.

Stern seems to have hit most of the current AAA themes already. Only Harry Potter is what I would consider a current AAA theme that Stern has not been able to license at some juncture or another. TMNT is certainly a good license but it’s not what I would consider AAA (like Game of Thrones, Stranger Things, and Metallica all were).

Whoa whoa whoa, I love all those themes you mentioned but with the likely exception being Metallica, Turtles is a much bigger theme than Got or Stranger things. See where these themes all lie in another decade. Game of what? I didn't even finish the last season lol.

Heck, Stranger things already has children access top secret Russian military compounds. Does this show really have much gas left in the tank?

Game of Thrones is a licensing juggernaut as things sit today and is one of the most valuable franchises in the history of television. Amazon wouldn’t be spending a billion dollars on It’s new LOTRs project absent GoT’s success.

TMNT is a good license, it’ll translate well to pinball, but there is no comparing TMNT to GoT in terms of relative franchise values today. Walk through MGM in Vegas, note how many GoT theme’d slot machines there are and then look for one for TMNT...you won’t find one. The casinos have their finger on the pulse of revenue generation and are a good barometer for identifying franchises that are deemed to have value today.

That is for the best. The last season really hurt the franchise.

Not after that last season. Its name is mud now.

.

how did people even start talking Revenge Of The Nerds? What shitty movies.
Let's get some Turtles leaks.

Not saying what is more popular at the moment. Though I agree with the other pinsider mentioning the last season being a real dragging through the mud of the series. Turtles have ben relevant in some form for 35yrs. Game of the thrones will not be something people discuss in 2055. Turtles? Possibly

I just seen this

087C8930-AE43-4277-9556-8822569B62BE (resized).png

Funhouse/tron-ish layout?

XMEN and Tron are mirror images of each other. This has elements of XMEN, Spiderman and other designs of Borg's, but it's not a straight 1 to 1 rehash or mirror of any of Borg's prior designs that I can tell. For one, the pop bumpers are in a completely different location than either Tron or X-Men.

And this might have 3 ramps...if the far left is?

Reminds me of Baywatch a bit layout wise I hate the art though not what I expected from Yeti.

Too happy, IMO.

Granted, I’m not a TMNT fan, but the upcoming pin would interest me more if they were a little more gritty and kick-ass, rather than friendly and happy.

So when will we see Led Zep?

The art is pretty close to the original...as in it's fucking hideous.

..... nah.

There is too much stuff on that pin for it to be a Stern

The layout kind of looks like 24. Or am I Crazy.

When do they start production on this? I have a JP Premium on order and hope they process existing/backlogged orders before starting these. Fear another shutdown in Illinois come late summer or fall and hoping to get my game by the latest August.

as always, will come down to the code. Sad they didn't go Eastman & Laird era (but duh of course not) but happy they didn't use the live action movies.
Can't wait to play it. I love pinball.

I’d take Top Gun or Mission Impossible over any of the themes being thrown around the past few days here but guessing they aren’t going to happen or would have already.

NEVER