(Topic ID: 245002)

What side to hook up wires on a coil?

By Spencer

4 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

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  • 101 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Spencer
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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#1 4 years ago

So, I have a Bally Dolly Parton and I'm chasing a concern where the drop targets will not reset. I cut off the wires on the coil for the drop targets and stupidly didn't take a photo. I've got a new coil to install and hope this fixes the problem but I cant remember for sure what side to solder the wires to.

I have 2 yellow wires and a red with black stripes. The coil does have a diode so would the 2 yellow go to the side closest to the silver stripe on the diode?

Thanks.

#4 4 years ago

Yes, that's what I see too. Thanks Buzz.

#7 4 years ago
Quoted from Buzz:

Sweet now get it fixed and send it to me. LOL

LOL, the wife still hasn't been able to play it fully working yet. Lets get past that first!

#11 4 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

The critical part is to always connect the power wires (both yellow in this case) to the coil lug closest to the silver stripe side of the diode. Whether it's on the left or right is not important as some pinball part suppliers supply coils with the diode soldered in reverse to your original.

Thanks so much, that's what I was thinking but wasn't sure.

#13 4 years ago
Quoted from Buzz:

Did you get it working?

Not yet bud. I had to work late and when I got home, I took my girls to buy a basketball net and a few Raptors balls. Hopefully get that set up this weekend. I'm going to install it tomorrow, hopefully..

I'll update for sure.

#14 4 years ago

I decided to give it a go tonight anyway. Didn't fix it. I think honestly, I should just sell it and chalk it up to a bad transaction and take the hit.

I have no idea where to go from here. Really frustrating to say the least.

#18 4 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Lets work through this methodically.
First up, please post a picture clearly showing how you've reconnected the wires on the drop target reset coil and make sure the diode on the coil is clearly visible.
And pictures of the Solenoid Driver Board (SDB) with one zoomed in at the J5 and J3 connectors

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Don't give up because Pinside is here to help.
Quench will definitely get you going here. If he didn't post, I or someone would have. That is the great thing about Pinside.
If things get too intense, which it doesn't seem the case here, at worse, sending a board out for repair would be suggested.

I already had the new board repaired. When I get home tonight, I will update with all the info I have
done so far and include pictures as suggested.

Thanks in advance!

#19 4 years ago
Quoted from Buzz:

Your narrowing it down keep the faith. You can do this!

Slowly but surely? Lol

#22 4 years ago

OK, I will get some pictures here soon. Here is the whole story...

I bought a Bally Dolly Parton. The head was removed for transport, not by myself. Its my first early SS pin, Soooooo I put it back together the way I thought I should, as none of the connectors were labelled.

The game has all new boards, except sound.

I connected the rectifier one pin off, not knowing what I know now, I just connected it the way I thought it should go. There was no plug in the connector to
warn me of this. Anyway, fuses blew like crazy. I reached out for help, realized my mistake, corrected it, replaced all the fuses and fired it back up. Everything was now working except the drop targets.

I manually checked the targets, they go up and down very easily. When the game is powered on, they drop when hit and score/sound. They just wont reset.

Ran Diagnosis on solenoids, #9 ( drop coil ) doesn't fire.

Checked DC voltage @ the yellow wires on the coil 46.5 VDC

Ran Diagnosis on Alltek board and found Q16 bad. Had that TIP replaced. Re-attached everything, still did not work.

Replaced the drop target coil with new diode attached, still will not work.

I will post some picture in a bit of the areas you suggested.

#23 4 years ago
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#25 4 years ago
Quoted from Buzz:

Have you run diagnostics since replacing the coil to see if it fires?

Yes, it does not.

#27 4 years ago

Yes, 46.6 VDC.

I am currently reworking that connector with the tape. Ive removed all the tape and I'm soldering every wire and shrink wrapping them by themselves. Though, I don't see any issues yet.

#29 4 years ago

I have not reset it.

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#30 4 years ago

I think they might be wrong. According to the Navram website it should be

1-ON
2-ON
3-ON
4-ON
5-OFF
6-OFF
7-OFF
8-ON

#31 4 years ago
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#32 4 years ago

I switched them to whats listed on the website, game lights up but wont boot.

#34 4 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

The switches were correct; switch 1 is on the right and ON is in the down position: For Dolly Parton they should be as per your original picture, i.e.:
Down, Down, Down, Down, Up, Up, Up, Down
[quoted image]

Yes, your right. I mixed up 1-8 on the website chart.

#36 4 years ago

Q16 does not fire the coil. Q10 does.

#40 4 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

This says you've got an open circuit from the transistor to the coil.
Let's see if the coil actually works first. This time do the same test but at the coil itself. Leave your jumper wire connected to the same ground location and very briefly touch the other wire end on the coil lug wire controlled by the solenoid driver board - in this case the red-black wire. Does the coil activate?
Make sure you don't ground the yellow power wires, otherwise you'll blow the playfield fuse!
[quoted image]

Ok, did this and the coil activates.

I also re-did all the wiring on the P3 connector on the driver board, I didn't like the mess of tape. I soldered all the wires and heat shrinked them. After re-installing the connector, I did notice, on the solenoid driver board, its marked Q16 ( which is the TIP that controls the coil, its the 7th one down on the connector ) there is no wire coming out of that spot in the connector?

#42 4 years ago
Quoted from Buzz:

Can you follow the ground wire on the coil to see if it's cut or disconnected. Sounds like that coil isn't attached to the ground buss. I knew you could do this. Your almost there.

I could do this! After dinner and beers I'm on it.

#44 4 years ago

Ok, I tested from Q16 to Pin 8 and do not have continuity. Removed the connector and tested right on the pin out, still nothing. I checked all the others just to be sure and they are all ok.

So, clearly I sill have a board issue, even after replacing Q16.

#46 4 years ago
Quoted from Buzz:

Did you also test the wire at the coil black red to where it goes to the board? You said Q10 fired the coil even though it should be Q16 maybe do the same test there.

No, I didnt. Q10 fired the sling coil as it should, not the targets. ( he just asked me to check, to make sure I was doing it correctly )

Didn't think I needed to go any further. If there is no connectivity between the TIP Q16 and pinout #8 on J5, it has to be a board issue still.

#49 4 years ago

Yeah, sorry, I corrected that above. Just used 10 as a test to make sure I was doing it properly. 10 fired the sling coil as it should have.

Well, now I think I may have to send the board back to Alltek then. I had a local guy replace the TIP Q16, not sure what happened there.

#52 4 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Start a game with the glass off.
Stick one end of your jumper wire inside pin 8 of the J5 connector so it's touching the red-black wire crimp terminal.
Put and hold the other end of the jumper wire on the metal tab of Q16.
Knock all the drop targets down. Does the drop target coil now reset the drop targets?

Which tab of Q16 should I touch?

#55 4 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Just checking, if you didn't know which tab I was talking about in your previous post #52, then which tab did you check for continuity (and discovered a lack of) to J5 pin 8 on the previous page? Just want to make sure you checked the right thing.
Q16 only has one tab which is at the top. The other two Q16 connections at its bottom are legs.
The picture linked below I posted, points to the Q16 tab you needed to test continuity to pin 8 of J5.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/what-side-to-hook-up-wires-on-a-coil#post-5045337

Because I was just checking for continuity and the machine was off, no risk of damage, I checked the top tab and all the legs. No continuity on any of them. I further checked the other TIPS to the corresponding pins and they all were good.

#57 4 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Cool, ok you can try what I mentioned in post #51 above. Let's see what happens. Jumper wire inside pin 8 of J5 and the other jumper wire end on the top metal tab of transistor Q16. Does the coil now activate when it should?

Yes, the coil activates and resets them.

#59 4 years ago

I dont see any damage to the board at all. Traced the top side as far as I can go...

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#61 4 years ago

Flipped over and traced from top to bottom, ok. Then were to after?? Its the third from the right.

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#62 4 years ago

This is the point from front to back. There is nothing on the back of the board for tip Q16. Just the front.
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#63 4 years ago

No wait, this is off the side of Q16 to the back. No continuity from the top to the bottom of the board.

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#64 4 years ago

Top to bottom... no continuity there.

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#70 4 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Looks like you found it.
If you have a desoldering station, suck the solder out of that burnt hole. Scrape the green paint off the front and back area of that burnt through hole joint. Insert as thick a single strand wire that you have through the hole and solder on front and back of the board.
If this sounds difficult, then find a way easiest for you to reconnect the top metal tab of Q16 to pin 8 of J5 (I just noticed Alltek call the connector P5 grrr)

I do not have a desoldering station but many thanks for your step by step help. I will remember this for future pins and it will save me a ton of time. I'm going to explore some options and i'll update this thread when I get it back up!

Thanks again Quench! and Buzz!

#72 4 years ago

This is truly unbelievable! I repaired the issue from the through hole on Q16. I now have continuity from the top of the board to the bottom. Further, I now have continuity from Q16 to pin 8 on J5.

Yet, the drop targets still will not reset!!

EDIT: I also have continuity from pin 8 to the coil.

#76 4 years ago
Quoted from Buzz:

Do all the targets register a hit then producing a signal to reset?

Quoted from merccat:

Oh ya, easy stuff first lol... also what about coil test?

Yes, every drop target drops, scores, sounds, and lights the 3x, 5x, etc on the playfield as it should.

I tested the coil earlier by using a jumper wire from ground to the coil and it fires every time. ( it is also new, as is the diode on it )

#78 4 years ago
Quoted from Buzz:

I'm still feeling like it's a signal thing. But I don't know which wire and there is no chip on the new boards. I'm just an apprentice at this stuff hopefully a journeyman like Quench chimes in.

A setting maybe?

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#80 4 years ago
Quoted from dirkdiggler:

I'm having similar issues with my drop targets on Contact and wondering if its a setting issue also. They drop and register hits, just don't reset after all 4 have been dropped. They do reset after each ball/start of game tho.

Mine never reset. unless manually done.

#86 4 years ago
Quoted from merccat:

That proves the coil has power and is good, but doesn’t demonstrate the path to the transistor is good. Sounds like you did good getting from the transistor to the pin. Now just continuity test all the way from the pin to the coil to get the rest of the circuit. Then you can rule out that whole path and focus on the transistor up. Mbwalker’s suggestion is what I would look at next if I had a logic probe. Otherwise maybe its configuration as someone else suggested. The software may not even be trying to fire that coil using that pathway.

I did check continuity from pin 8 to the coil earlier. So now, I have confirmed a path of power from the TIP Q16 to pin #8 on connector J5 and from there directly to the coil.

It amazes me, I've corrected a few issues and yet I still haven't made the end game yet. I keep thinking, yup that will fix it for sure, only for it not too. So strange there has been so many issues on one circuit.

I don't have a logic probe.

#91 4 years ago

I went down to check if it would register in diagnostic mode. It did not. After leaving it on for several minutes, Q16 got super hot, smoking hot actually..... and the drop target coil locked on solid. They would not drop, even manually.

I think maybe I should just order a new board, something has to be wrong with the new TIP installed in Q16.

#94 4 years ago
Quoted from Buzz:

In fact get a new coil

The coil does not look damaged, maybe it is... shit!, its brand new.... I just sent off an email to Alltek asking if I could return the board for repair or replacement. We shall see what they say. Either way, I'm convinced something is wrong with Q16 and even after replacement, that's still the issue. Either way, Im going to get them to repair or replace the board, even if I have to pay.

Then I will start again....

#97 4 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Strange. Earlier when you ran the jumper wire from the top metal tab of Q16 into the J5 pin 8 connector test I mentioned, you said the coil activated.
I presume the Q16 LED is now flashing indicating a short circuit failure?
For no, check the coil. Grab your multi-meter and put it on low resistance mode. With the machine Off, connect each meter lead across the drop target coil. You should get a measurement around 22 ohms.

Yes, the coil activated. The thing is, now that I think about it, you wanted me to hold the connection, put all the targets down and see if it would kick them back up.... I couldn't hold it there because the second I touched it, it reset the targets, no matter how many were down. It just instantly reset them. Kinda like its doing now, I never held the wire there long enough to see if it locked the coil but I bet it did!!

So I checked the coil its ok.

Q16 got so hot, it melted the solder on the top tab!!

I cant even turn the game on anymore to check the flashing LED's as the coil instantly locks on the Q16 gets insanely hot right away.

I did contact Alltek and I got a quick response back and they said to send them the board and they will repair or replace. So at this point, I think I'd better get that sorted out first

I will update this thread when I get the board back. If it was just replacing the TIP, I would try it myself this time but these new problems started after I repaired that through hole, so I'd better get this done right!

1 month later
#99 4 years ago

UPDATE:

I felt really bad about returning the board, under warranty, since I was clearly at fault even though I didn't know better. So, life happened and finally I ordered a new board. Installed it tonight and everything works as it should now!

Thank you guys for your help, time to finally enjoy this game.

#101 4 years ago

Thanks Buzz, appreciate your help!

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