(Topic ID: 245002)

What side to hook up wires on a coil?

By Spencer

4 years ago


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  • 101 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Spencer
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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There are 101 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
#51 4 years ago

Start a game with the glass off.
Stick one end of your jumper wire inside pin 8 of the J5 connector so it's touching the red-black wire crimp terminal.
Put and hold the other end of the jumper wire on the metal tab of Q16.
Knock all the drop targets down. Does the drop target coil now reset the drop targets?

#52 4 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Start a game with the glass off.
Stick one end of your jumper wire inside pin 8 of the J5 connector so it's touching the red-black wire crimp terminal.
Put and hold the other end of the jumper wire on the metal tab of Q16.
Knock all the drop targets down. Does the drop target coil now reset the drop targets?

Which tab of Q16 should I touch?

#53 4 years ago

Please ignore my previous post and wait for me to come back.

I need to find more info on the Alltek board - they use MOSFET transistors, not the TIP102 transistors as used on the original Bally solenoid driver boards.

#54 4 years ago
Quoted from Spencer:

Ok, I tested from Q16 to Pin 8 and do not have continuity.

Just checking, if you didn't know which tab I was talking about in your previous post #52, then which tab did you check for continuity (and discovered a lack of) to J5 pin 8 on the previous page? Just want to make sure you checked the right thing.

Q16 only has one tab which is at the top. The other two Q16 connections at its bottom are legs.

The picture linked below I posted, points to the Q16 tab you needed to test continuity to pin 8 of J5.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/what-side-to-hook-up-wires-on-a-coil#post-5045337

#55 4 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Just checking, if you didn't know which tab I was talking about in your previous post #52, then which tab did you check for continuity (and discovered a lack of) to J5 pin 8 on the previous page? Just want to make sure you checked the right thing.
Q16 only has one tab which is at the top. The other two Q16 connections at its bottom are legs.
The picture linked below I posted, points to the Q16 tab you needed to test continuity to pin 8 of J5.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/what-side-to-hook-up-wires-on-a-coil#post-5045337

Because I was just checking for continuity and the machine was off, no risk of damage, I checked the top tab and all the legs. No continuity on any of them. I further checked the other TIPS to the corresponding pins and they all were good.

#56 4 years ago

Cool, ok you can try what I mentioned in post #51 above. Let's see what happens. Jumper wire inside pin 8 of J5 and the other jumper wire end on the top metal tab of transistor Q16. Does the coil now activate when it should?

#57 4 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Cool, ok you can try what I mentioned in post #51 above. Let's see what happens. Jumper wire inside pin 8 of J5 and the other jumper wire end on the top metal tab of transistor Q16. Does the coil now activate when it should?

Yes, the coil activates and resets them.

#58 4 years ago
Quoted from Spencer:

Yes, the coil activates and resets them.

Great, you found the problem!
Pull that solenoid driver board out and have a look on the back for an obvious burnt trace going to pin 8 of J5.

#59 4 years ago

I dont see any damage to the board at all. Traced the top side as far as I can go...

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#60 4 years ago

Can you post some pictures of the back of the board and draw an arrow to approximately where Q16 is? The top metal tab of Q16 connects to J5 pin 8 via traces that run on both front and back of the board so need to see where those traces run.

#61 4 years ago

Flipped over and traced from top to bottom, ok. Then were to after?? Its the third from the right.

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#62 4 years ago

This is the point from front to back. There is nothing on the back of the board for tip Q16. Just the front.
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#63 4 years ago

No wait, this is off the side of Q16 to the back. No continuity from the top to the bottom of the board.

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#64 4 years ago

Top to bottom... no continuity there.

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#65 4 years ago

Looks like you found it.
If you have a desoldering station, suck the solder out of that burnt hole. Scrape the green paint off the front and back area of that burnt through hole joint. Insert as thick a single strand wire that you have through the hole and solder on front and back of the board. This is the neatest least obvious way to fix it.

If this sounds difficult, then find a way easiest for you to reconnect the top metal tab of Q16 to pin 8 of J5 (I just noticed Alltek call the connector P5 not J5, grrr)

#66 4 years ago

Interesting read. I'm surprised they didn't run multiple vias on high current traces.

#67 4 years ago

Alltek will also replace your board at a discounted price. But you have come this far and you have done a rectifier board so this should be simple. Then you can stand back and be proud as you watch your wife enjoy her pin.

#68 4 years ago

And to Quench with all the good information and the pics with the stuff written on them was top notch.

#69 4 years ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

Interesting read. I'm surprised they didn't run multiple vias on high current traces.

Those through hole vias look tiny. Not made for the average Joe to service.
Bally didn't use that many jumper wires with their single sided design in that area..

#70 4 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Looks like you found it.
If you have a desoldering station, suck the solder out of that burnt hole. Scrape the green paint off the front and back area of that burnt through hole joint. Insert as thick a single strand wire that you have through the hole and solder on front and back of the board.
If this sounds difficult, then find a way easiest for you to reconnect the top metal tab of Q16 to pin 8 of J5 (I just noticed Alltek call the connector P5 grrr)

I do not have a desoldering station but many thanks for your step by step help. I will remember this for future pins and it will save me a ton of time. I'm going to explore some options and i'll update this thread when I get it back up!

Thanks again Quench! and Buzz!

#71 4 years ago
Quoted from Spencer:

I do not have a desoldering station but many thanks for your step by step help. I will remember this for future pins and it will save me a ton of time. I'm going to explore some options and i'll update this thread when I get it back up!
Thanks again Quench! and Buzz!

Solder a jumper wire (use same gauge as going to coil) to the transistor leg and then the other end to the under side of the jumper pin effectively replacing that entire trace via and all. Route it neatly and use a dab or two of hot glue.

Its more hacky looking but will get you running and really, how often to you stare at your boards? If it bugs you enough, when you later on get a desoldering iron you can easily undo it and repair neatly with Quench’s method.

#72 4 years ago

This is truly unbelievable! I repaired the issue from the through hole on Q16. I now have continuity from the top of the board to the bottom. Further, I now have continuity from Q16 to pin 8 on J5.

Yet, the drop targets still will not reset!!

EDIT: I also have continuity from pin 8 to the coil.

#73 4 years ago
Quoted from Spencer:

This is truly unbelievable! I repaired the issue from the through hole on Q16. I now have continuity from the top of the board to the bottom. Further, I now have continuity from Q16 to pin 8 on J5.
Yet, the drop targets still will not reset!!

Check for continuity from J5 to the coil (game off of course). Also it may be that the transistor was also bad so with good continuity confirmed you’ll want to recheck that.

#74 4 years ago

Do all the targets register a hit then producing a signal to reset?

#75 4 years ago
Quoted from Buzz:

Do all the targets register a hit then producing a signal to reset?

Oh ya, easy stuff first lol... also what about coil test?

#76 4 years ago
Quoted from Buzz:

Do all the targets register a hit then producing a signal to reset?

Quoted from merccat:

Oh ya, easy stuff first lol... also what about coil test?

Yes, every drop target drops, scores, sounds, and lights the 3x, 5x, etc on the playfield as it should.

I tested the coil earlier by using a jumper wire from ground to the coil and it fires every time. ( it is also new, as is the diode on it )

#77 4 years ago

I'm still feeling like it's a signal thing. But I don't know which wire and there is no chip on the new boards. I'm just an apprentice at this stuff hopefully a journeyman like Quench chimes in.

#78 4 years ago
Quoted from Buzz:

I'm still feeling like it's a signal thing. But I don't know which wire and there is no chip on the new boards. I'm just an apprentice at this stuff hopefully a journeyman like Quench chimes in.

A setting maybe?

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#79 4 years ago

I'm having similar issues with my drop targets on Contact and wondering if its a setting issue also. They drop and register hits, just don't reset after all 4 have been dropped. They do reset after each ball/start of game tho.

Quoted from Spencer:

A setting maybe?[quoted image]

#80 4 years ago
Quoted from dirkdiggler:

I'm having similar issues with my drop targets on Contact and wondering if its a setting issue also. They drop and register hits, just don't reset after all 4 have been dropped. They do reset after each ball/start of game tho.

Mine never reset. unless manually done.

#81 4 years ago

After everything proved I would think it's got to be a signal issue

#82 4 years ago

Maybe push or reset the chips or one got damaged with the voltage. Unfortunately past my level

#83 4 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Those through hole vias look tiny....

I was thinking the same. There's design guidelines for via current handling (via size, thickness of metal plating, is the hole filled?). When I'm working on a design, I always toss in extra vias for redundancy just in case the board vendor doesn't quite get the plating right...

#84 4 years ago

You might be able to see if there's a pulse on the base of Q16 (see blue arrow). Really need a scope, but maybe it's slow enough to catch on the DMM. ~0.7V will turn on Q16.

If your DMM has a diode setting, you can check CR16 (power off). ~0.7V one way, open when reversing the leads. Sometimes tricky 'in circuit' since you can get false readings.

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#85 4 years ago
Quoted from Spencer:

I tested the coil earlier by using a jumper wire from ground to the coil and it fires every time. ( it is also new, as is the diode on it )

That proves the coil has power and is good, but doesn’t demonstrate the path to the transistor is good. Sounds like you did good getting from the transistor to the pin. Now just continuity test all the way from the pin to the coil to get the rest of the circuit. Then you can rule out that whole path and focus on the transistor up. Mbwalker’s suggestion is what I would look at next if I had a logic probe. Otherwise maybe its configuration as someone else suggested. The software may not even be trying to fire that coil using that pathway.

#86 4 years ago
Quoted from merccat:

That proves the coil has power and is good, but doesn’t demonstrate the path to the transistor is good. Sounds like you did good getting from the transistor to the pin. Now just continuity test all the way from the pin to the coil to get the rest of the circuit. Then you can rule out that whole path and focus on the transistor up. Mbwalker’s suggestion is what I would look at next if I had a logic probe. Otherwise maybe its configuration as someone else suggested. The software may not even be trying to fire that coil using that pathway.

I did check continuity from pin 8 to the coil earlier. So now, I have confirmed a path of power from the TIP Q16 to pin #8 on connector J5 and from there directly to the coil.

It amazes me, I've corrected a few issues and yet I still haven't made the end game yet. I keep thinking, yup that will fix it for sure, only for it not too. So strange there has been so many issues on one circuit.

I don't have a logic probe.

#87 4 years ago

Sometimes when it something blows it takes out a whole chain of things unfortunately and sometimes a problem is a culmination of issues. Defeating the tricky ones is always a rush tho.

#88 4 years ago

So now with all you have done does the coil work in diagnostic test?

#89 4 years ago
Quoted from Buzz:

So now with all you have done does the coil work in diagnostic test?

I believe he said it still doesn’t. Knowing the pathway is good, was the transistor itself ever confirmed ok?

To rule out config I’d be halfway tempted to try connecting to different open coil pins to see if maybe the game is driving it with a different than expected driver.

#90 4 years ago

I don't think he did it after continuity fix.

#91 4 years ago

I went down to check if it would register in diagnostic mode. It did not. After leaving it on for several minutes, Q16 got super hot, smoking hot actually..... and the drop target coil locked on solid. They would not drop, even manually.

I think maybe I should just order a new board, something has to be wrong with the new TIP installed in Q16.

#92 4 years ago

Get a new coil if it locked on too long. Send your board back to Alltek and it is a fraction of cost for a new one.

#93 4 years ago

In fact get a new coil

#94 4 years ago
Quoted from Buzz:

In fact get a new coil

The coil does not look damaged, maybe it is... shit!, its brand new.... I just sent off an email to Alltek asking if I could return the board for repair or replacement. We shall see what they say. Either way, I'm convinced something is wrong with Q16 and even after replacement, that's still the issue. Either way, Im going to get them to repair or replace the board, even if I have to pay.

Then I will start again....

#95 4 years ago
Quoted from Spencer:

I went down to check if it would register in diagnostic mode. It did not. After leaving it on for several minutes, Q16 got super hot, smoking hot actually..... and the drop target coil locked on solid. They would not drop, even manually.
I think maybe I should just order a new board, something has to be wrong with the new TIP installed in Q16.

I don't think I would go down that path yet. But I won't be able to go thu all the postings until the morning. No need to order a board yet. At the end of the day, it's just a switch (Q16) that turns on the coil. We'll help you sort it out. A lot of good help here.

#96 4 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Stick one end of your jumper wire inside pin 8 of the J5 connector so it's touching the red-black wire crimp terminal.
Put and hold the other end of the jumper wire on the metal tab of Q16.
Knock all the drop targets down. Does the drop target coil now reset the drop targets?

Quoted from Spencer:

Yes, the coil activates and resets them.

Strange. Earlier when you ran the jumper wire from the top metal tab of Q16 into the J5 pin 8 connector test I mentioned, you said the coil activated.
I presume the Q16 LED is now flashing indicating a short circuit failure?

For no, check the coil. Grab your multi-meter and put it on low resistance mode. With the machine Off, connect each meter lead across the drop target coil. You should get a measurement around 22 ohms.

#97 4 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Strange. Earlier when you ran the jumper wire from the top metal tab of Q16 into the J5 pin 8 connector test I mentioned, you said the coil activated.
I presume the Q16 LED is now flashing indicating a short circuit failure?
For no, check the coil. Grab your multi-meter and put it on low resistance mode. With the machine Off, connect each meter lead across the drop target coil. You should get a measurement around 22 ohms.

Yes, the coil activated. The thing is, now that I think about it, you wanted me to hold the connection, put all the targets down and see if it would kick them back up.... I couldn't hold it there because the second I touched it, it reset the targets, no matter how many were down. It just instantly reset them. Kinda like its doing now, I never held the wire there long enough to see if it locked the coil but I bet it did!!

So I checked the coil its ok.

Q16 got so hot, it melted the solder on the top tab!!

I cant even turn the game on anymore to check the flashing LED's as the coil instantly locks on the Q16 gets insanely hot right away.

I did contact Alltek and I got a quick response back and they said to send them the board and they will repair or replace. So at this point, I think I'd better get that sorted out first

I will update this thread when I get the board back. If it was just replacing the TIP, I would try it myself this time but these new problems started after I repaired that through hole, so I'd better get this done right!

#98 4 years ago
Quoted from Spencer:

Yes, the coil activated. The thing is, now that I think about it, you wanted me to hold the connection, put all the targets down and see if it would kick them back up.... I couldn't hold it there because the second I touched it, it reset the targets, no matter how many were down. It just instantly reset them. Kinda like its doing now, I never held the wire there long enough to see if it locked the coil but I bet it did!!

Ah, so that's where the confusion was. Hopefully the turnaround from Alltek is quick and you can finally enjoy playing Dolly

1 month later
#99 4 years ago

UPDATE:

I felt really bad about returning the board, under warranty, since I was clearly at fault even though I didn't know better. So, life happened and finally I ordered a new board. Installed it tonight and everything works as it should now!

Thank you guys for your help, time to finally enjoy this game.

#100 4 years ago

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