I'm intrigued...do I have to perch on top of the backbox? How do I play the game that way?

I agree with most of those points. extra BS optional. As far as the PF who cares if you like one better by one if you like both buy both. Different flavors for more people.

If armor is wearing over time that is a huge issue. QC should be all over fixing that if his company is to keep succeeding.

If I have to stand on the machine I am wearing a magneto costume not wolverine =-/=

Stop with the LE's and Pros. Just make one regular machine for commercial use or HUO.

I think the current state of LE is just right. My only comment is they should do a Premium version of every game.

Word.

The two LE offerings, a Premium, and a pro for AC/DC was perfect.

Just hammer the nail in the coffin and kill the pro. Be done with it. Most ops do not even bother anyway. Stern wont because thats there major sell in Europe. But the way the euro is they have to be seeing the hit anyway.

While some may cheer the pro acdc its clear that Ritchie robbed the budget on the pro to fund more stuff on the le. What on the acdc pro cost as much as the xmen pro? or Tf pro? The le games should foot the bill for toys on the pro.

I would like an LE with built-in beer tap.

Business 102 covers market segmentation. Check it out.

Well since it's 111 degrees right now, I'd say Kool-Aid is pretty damn refreshing.
Even though people have strong opinions of JJP (current state, theme, delays, etc...) you've got to admit his (Jack's) breakdown of the LE to the standard machine without quality compromises is really what the benchmark should be for ANY pinball machine going into production today.

Pricing tiers aside, the gameplay and toys should stay the same on eVeRy version.
So by using JJP's method, Stern's offerings should be: "Premium", then "LE"; possibly ditching the "Pro" altogether. (Unless they drop the price even more to make it a viable contender...)

On a side note, after seeing "The Duke" speak (via omnipotent face) at CAX this year, he'd like to go even cheaper with the whole thing. $2000-$2500 pins for the masses!
Gary just shook his head...

Sorry, but according to the OP (who is an expert in business), Jack's 1000 LEs and less than 1000 "Pro" WoZ units are not considered a "market". Jack really should have checked with the OP because Jack obviously failed Business 101.

I like what they did with the Tron varieties. I know some were upset over the Daft Punk mb situation, but to me it's a "nice to have" not a necessity. Same with drop targets.

Also with Tron I like that with enough time and money you can make something with very similar features to the LE. You wouldn't be able to do so with AC/DC or X-Men.

Sort of sounds like a sales pitch for the Pro, but I did buy the Tron LE. To me the investment needed to make the Pro into the game I want wasn't worth it, but I appreciate what others have been able to do with Pros.

Dear Gary:

Just finish the frickin' code before releasing each game--and apply a Bally/Williams-level of clear in the shooter lane and I'll be happy.

Must say, your customer service is excellent--keep up the good work here.

All I need is his sig on my PF in gold marker

Stern should be getting lots of heat over LEs being actually different games (when compared the pros or regular version).

LE versions should have any number of cosmetic "enhancements", but no changes that have an effect on the game itself.

LE mandatory kegorator I am in NIB. =-)

OT kinda

Just unboxed Magneto and I must say it is stunning in person. 242/250

I have not uploaded v1.2 yet but seems very fun first 2 games.

Kudos Stern for a beautiful and fun product. Now to wait for more updates and watch it get even better.

100% +10 on that. Plus LE's should have WAAAAY better body armor and clears.

I like the concept of the Premium model for AC/DC, and if I had my preference it would be Premium/LE. We'll have to see what Stern goes with for the next machine. It is obvious that Stern is trying different things, seeing what works best for sales and for their customers. They went from only having one model, to trying the "regular" and "costco" model, to cosmetic only LEs, to largely differentiated LEs, and "Pro", "Premium" and LE.

My guess is that Stern's own sales, profit numbers and forecasting are going to be what determines which way they go in the future, and no one here is privy to that information.

How about change the name to HE (Historical Edition)

It comes with the features that were considered standard on pins from the past such as...
Mini playfields
Ramps
Back glass
Silk screened cabinet
Under playfield support bars
Lock down bar
Metal apron

Just like the teachers I had in high school. Full of crap, but if you agreed with them you were the best student, if you didn't you were a dumbass...

Exactly! Just like those classic manufacturers from the past, who are now all out of business...

Touché

I agree. A game like TSPP would be an LE if it came out today in its current form. Then they would strip it down and call it a pro. I'm sorry, but what did TSPP cost new?

WMS industries is still in business, except they only make gaming devices. But, I do see your point nonetheless.

Yes. Location pinball has been going on in this country for almost 80 years now. Way, way too long. No need for it anymore as we can all just play alone in our basements now. Our only needed connection with the outside world is Pinside. No need for actual face to face contact. We should probably go ahead and kill off pinball shows and tournaments too while we're at it. Totally worthless. I can order my games and everything else I need from my basement.

That's a load of crap. I'd suggest you search on youtube for Steve Ritchie and AC/DC as he has explained more than once in seminars how it was handled. You're not even close.

It doesn't have to be about AC/DC specifically. It's not crazy talk to suggest that Stern would be able to give customers a better dollar-for-dollar value if they focused on one model (or very similar models) per title. LE, premium, pro, choose your art package... we're all chipping in for the range of choices and options we're getting.

I owned it close enough for me. You go ahead and show me what on acdc pro has for bom that xmen pro has for bom....where is the money? the music is that where it went? the cannon? maybe from youssi doing the face???? where is the money that other games show like xmen or even tf or even tron where is it? Is there 1500 bucks in the coin box i didnt see?

It is very clear Ritchie robbed a grand worth of bom on the pro and dropped it on the led tunnel and the band. I dont know where else it went. BOTTOM LINE THE LE SHOULD FOOT THE BILL FOR THE PRO. If the pro model is to survive than the LE needs to go up in price so the pro can stay the same. I will tell you THIS FOR FACT THE PRO IS SUPPOSED TO GO DOWN 300 bucks with the new board set and have all leds. Guess what is going up 300.......dont believe me i will put another 100 bucks like i did on xmen lets see who pays up this time....... Where is that guy from xmen he owes me money.

I work for a op who refuses to get them anymore. Most the ops in the WAMO circuit black listed Stern after the increase. I am headed to a WAMO meeting later this month would you like names of the ops in WI that dont get them anymore.

Actually it would be quicker to get names who still DO get them.

I think you forgot the main one.

If charging 2k more, have 2k worth of stuff actually in it and make it seem like it's worth 2k more. Not $200 worth of new stuff.

Thanks neo my point exactly.

I like the pro model just fine. The 'plastic train' doesn't affect gameplay in the least. Are things that have nothing to do with gameplay that important to you? Not me. The compensation for the missing moving bell is perfect.

As much as I don't like the direction they're going, they totally nailed AC/DC. All three models. If you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you.

You're focusing on money too much. All three versions of AC/DC are fun. That's all that matters. Not sure what you owned, but if you weren't happy with the purchase, I'd suggest you see and play the game next time before you buy one.

Again, you're wrongly focusing on the money. The BOM does not make the game. Suggesting either XM is somehow better than any of the AC/DC's is ridiculous. They're not. Flintstones had a huge BOM. Does that make it a good game? Tell me how you think the games plays, not how much you think each one is worth.

3500-3800, I remember because I wanted one so bad and bought my 1st pin TS for 1400

My only point is why the price increase on the pro? where is the money? So if the game is fun it does not matter about money or bom? Its clear ritchie did not have a unlimited bom for acdc. Is the pro fun sure it is. But it is also clear he robbed the bank to pay for the prem/le.

Its plain as day ritchie said something to the affect i need 4500 for the bom on the le prem. but i only have say 3000 well i can leave this this and this out and get my money from the pro to make my le/prem. Are my numbers right prob not but you get the idea.

The pro should go away because most ops wont make the money back for what 10 years. They see there is less and less shit and the price went up. You think ops are dumb or something? Wamo was a major player with Stern. They where invited time and time again to WAMO meetings but declined to show up. They failed to meet the 2nd biggest organization of registered operators in the states. The only operator organization bigger is the AMOA. So when Gary Stern declines to come to a State wide meeting 2 hours away to tell one of his biggest circuits WHY they should still get games, you can see why most in WI have blacklisted them.

To each their own I will say flat out XM is better than all the AC/DCs becuase that is how I honestly feel. Implying it is ridiculous that some may prefer a game you don't is a bit short sighted. Okay back to the Pro/LE arguement.

Now that's funny. Are your scores way higher with the sculpted train?

I'd rather be a player with low standards than a collector who only focuses on the bling.

I really like the Tron model they did. Where the LE just has minor differences from the pro model.
I don’t want to see them to do away with pro’s I bought a Tron pro and a AC/DC pro.
Both are fun and if they were not offered I would not have two new pins.

Can you imagine something like LAH it would be 12k

I also feel that acdc pro while fun is so crippled it cannot reap the benifits of software updates to the point where it almost feels like a DEMO model. Like at any given time a advert will pop and say wanna do this Get the PREM/LE model NOOW NOOOW NOOOOOWWWWW BUTT WWAIT THERE IS MORE!

I sold acdc pro because i dont think lyman will be able to make signaficant changes to teh pro via rules like was intended for the prem. SO major major major parts of the game will be missing like what.....a costco demo version.

No matter what NO F ING MATTER WHAT THERE SHOULD NEVER BE MAJOR SOFTWARE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN MODELS!

YOU SHOULD NEVER FEEL LIKE YOU COULDN'T PLAY X GAME IN X TOURNAMENT BECAUSE YOU ONLY PLAYED THE PRO AND NEVER THE LE.

They want to do that KILL THE PRO. JACK THE PRICE ANOTHER G and call it the PREM

I couldnt of said it better

I think the current model of pro vs LE is a great compromise. Historically, stern had to cut costs so games suffered. The LE gives us back the full game at the price it needs to be while still providing a cost cut version for those that need to pay less. So yes, it's fine to have different game play aspects. I'd hate to have the LE limited by what can be done in the pro price range. And it's unreasonable to expect them to just beef up the pro for the same price.

And, it's not "stern koolaid" to disagree here.

As far as your list goes: LCD / color Dmd is not that important since you aren't really looking up when playing a game. And we certainly don't want LCD in LE and Dmd in pro. Also that won't happen because it requires dual software development cycles.

Forget custom topper. I like the creativeness of the after market ones.

Forget " superior sound". stern aren't sound engineers. As send by AC/DC, we can upgrade the sound better ourselves.