(Topic ID: 156023)

What price in a bar is fair?


By Ibanezshreader

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 180 posts
  • 75 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by mainelycoasters
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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There are 179 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.
#151 3 years ago
Quoted from boagman:

since operators were raking money in hand over fist.

They weren't doing that good.

The value of the US dollar was dropping. According to the US Governments cost of living index, the 1981 50¢ per play should have gone to 75¢ in 1991.

LTG : )

#152 3 years ago
Quoted from boagman:

But it's *their* quarter, now isn't it?
Not to stray too far off the path/subject here, but do you have any Aldi grocery stores in your area? Are you familiar with how they disperse their grocery carts? It's commonplace in Europe at every grocery store to utilize a Euro dollar to "release" a shopping cart to you for your use, and when you're done, you return the cart to the corral, connect it to the others, and get your Euro dollar back. In the USA, they utilize quarters for the same effect, and boy howdy, does it work in *spades*!!! It might be kind of an inconvenience at times, but I'm absolutely *sold* on the concept, because whenever I go to an Aldi, the parking lot is absolutely bereft of stray carts. You *might* see *one*, and I can guarantee you that it won't be there for long, because hey: free quarter! People WANT THEIR QUARTER. And they WANT THEIR QUARTER *BACK*.
I totally understand the desire to not lose a quarter in a game that's $.75 per play. So, apparently, do most other people. $.75 is just such a weird, awkward price for a game. You might as well just automatically boost the price to $1, just because.

Everybody is entitled to be total cheap asses, with "their" quarter. The whole I won't play a game at a $1 but will at .75 is just dumb. It is almost always either .75 or 3 for $2 or $1 or $3 for 2. So in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really make a lick of difference.

#153 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

They weren't doing that good.
The value of the US dollar was dropping. According to the US Governments cost of living index, the 1981 50¢ per play should have gone to 75¢ in 1991.
LTG : )

They were, though, Lloyd. The resurgence of revenue from coin-op games in the late 80's and early 90's was pretty manic. Not like it had been a decade before, no, but operators were doing *just fine*, as evidenced by the fact that so many of them were putting a lot of their earnings up their noses. $1 per play back then would have been ridiculously high, considering the cost of the machines themselves. Many things were paying for themselves within 3-6 months at most, and that's an *incredible* ROI. Think about how much fighting games took in. Drivers of all sorts. Even pinball, at $.50 a game, was earning, and earning *hard*. You paid $3000 for that TAF? Paid in half a year, and probably less. It was boom time for operators of coin-op amusement all over. When a standard Mortal Kombat is pulling in $750-$1K a week, it's kind of hard to argue against the history. So many, many other examples.

And basically *nothing* was honestly $.50 in 1981.

#154 3 years ago
Quoted from Jaybird815:

Everybody is entitled to be total cheap asses, with "their" quarter. The whole I won't play a game at a $1 but will at .75 is just dumb. It is almost always either .75 or 3 for $2 or $1 or $3 for 2. So in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really make a lick of difference.

But it does, even if it's just subconsciously. You're better off just charging the buck for one game. No one feels gypped then, and it's really high time for games of pinball to require that price. I don't think anyone's cheap for not wanting to put $1 in a $.75 game and losing the excess. Were it me, I'd change that dollar into four quarters first, insert $.75, and be better off for it. In the same way, when I see a quarter on the ground in front of me, I pick that bad boy up, because hey! Quarter!

I don't think we're that far away in our thinking, I just think that the nature of humanity as a whole doesn't want to give away money for no particular reason. That, and I think it's time to stop discounting multiple game purchases. $1 per game, straight (none of this 6 for $5 garbage or anything), with winnable extra balls, replays, specials, etc.

#155 3 years ago
Quoted from boagman:

But it does, even if it's just subconsciously. You're better off just charging the buck for one game. No one feels gypped then, and it's really high time for games of pinball to require that price. I don't think anyone's cheap for not wanting to put $1 in a $.75 game and losing the excess. Were it me, I'd change that dollar into four quarters first, insert $.75, and be better off for it. In the same way, when I see a quarter on the ground in front of me, I pick that bad boy up, because hey! Quarter!
I don't think we're that far away in our thinking, I just think that the nature of humanity as a whole doesn't want to give away money for no particular reason. That, and I think it's time to stop discounting multiple game purchases. $1 per game, straight (none of this 6 for $5 garbage or anything), with winnable extra balls, replays, specials, etc.

I agree with $1 straight for a game, my friends and I will play the same amount of games that way as well. Meaning a little more money for the OPs. I just can't see finding a pin in the wild and then walking away over a quarter. If this is the general attitude of the public I would think pins on route would be a guaranteed losing proposition.

#156 3 years ago
Quoted from boagman:

And basically *nothing* was honestly $.50 in 1981.

Black Knight, every pin that came in after, Battle Zone, Missle Command, sit down drivers, etc.

Quoted from boagman:

The resurgence of revenue from coin-op games in the late 80's and early 90's was pretty manic.

Yes we were hauling in money. But we were losing ground and didn't understand it. Rent went up, utilities went up, food went up. The money we were taking in was worth half as much.

Quoted from boagman:

You paid $3000 for that TAF? Paid in half a year, and probably less.

TAF was around $3400 without sales tax. I never had any pin pay for itself in a year and a half.

LTG : )

#157 3 years ago
Quoted from boagman:

Many things were paying for themselves within 3-6 months at most, and that's an *incredible*

Darn few. Gauntlet and Mortal Kombat 2 are the only two I can think of.

LTG : )

#158 3 years ago
Quoted from boagman:

considering the cost of the machines themselves.

I might add that from the Pac Man days to the Mortal Kombat days, cost of each game doubled or more.

LTG : )

#159 3 years ago

oh man gauntlet was fun ... and what a quarter-eater in retrospect!

#160 3 years ago
Quoted from Jaybird815:

I just can't see finding a pin in the wild and then walking away over a quarter. If this is the general attitude of the public I would think pins on route would be a guaranteed losing proposition.

*You* can't, and perhaps *I* can't, but that's because we're pinheads. We live for the stuff, so the extra quarter wouldn't throw us...in this particular instance. I can guarantee you that there are things in your life that, if you knew you'd have to throw in an extra, unnecessary quarter for, you'd just not buy it. I can fully see most of the population seeing a 25% Idiot Tax be a detriment to spending, rather than an incentive.

$.75 just comes back to being too awkward. I'm here to tell you that there are local car washes here that charge $2.99, $3.99, $4.99, etc. and you had better *believe* that they keep tons of rolled pennies around for change.

#161 3 years ago

$1 per game is fair in this day and age
I'm also in the camp of doing away with free games in most cases it seems like an outdated idea left over from the EM era.
When games had fast ball times with no ball saves.

#162 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

I might add that from the Pac Man days to the Mortal Kombat days, cost of each game doubled or more.
LTG : )

And I would add that the price per play doubled to $.50, so we've achieved detente, comrade.

C'mon, Lloyd, $1 per play in the early 90s for all games was out-and-out *ridiculous* greed, inspired by stars in ops' eyes that were fueled by many types of illegal substances. It's odd to be making this statement from the point-of-view that I am, in favor of the rise to $1 now. And I mean it: when ops put out pinball machines today, as many of those with coin doors that have places for bill acceptors should have them, even on older machines. When they're brought into the shop to be cleaned, rerubbered, rebulbed, etc. one of the things that should be done is they should grab an older MARS DBV off the shelf, install it on that Sega Harley-Davidson, and set it for $1 a play, and send it back out into the world to actually *earn*, rather than just exist.

It's 2016. It's time.

#163 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Darn few. Gauntlet and Mortal Kombat 2 are the only two I can think of.
LTG : )

You didn't have a Daytona USA back when it was new?

#164 3 years ago
Quoted from boagman:

$1 per play in the early 90s for all games was out-and-out *ridiculous* greed,

I must have missed something komrade.

I posted that according to the US Government cost of living index, the 1981 50¢ per play should have gone to 75¢ in 1991.

The price didn't go up. Pins and vids ( except the big sit down moving contraptions ) were stuck at 50¢ during the 1990's.

LTG : )

#165 3 years ago
Quoted from boagman:

And I would add that the price per play doubled to $.50, so we've achieved detente, comrade.
C'mon, Lloyd, $1 per play in the early 90s for all games was out-and-out *ridiculous* greed, inspired by stars in ops' eyes that were fueled by many types of illegal substances. It's odd to be making this statement from the point-of-view that I am, in favor of the rise to $1 now. And I mean it: when ops put out pinball machines today, as many of those with coin doors that have places for bill acceptors should have them, even on older machines. When they're brought into the shop to be cleaned, rerubbered, rebulbed, etc. one of the things that should be done is they should grab an older MARS DBV off the shelf, install it on that Sega Harley-Davidson, and set it for $1 a play, and send it back out into the world to actually *earn*, rather than just exist.
It's 2016. It's time.

I 100% agree and I am a consumer. I don't want to see pinball just survive, I want to see it thrive.

#166 3 years ago
Quoted from boagman:

You didn't have a Daytona USA back when it was new?

No. I did have the Sega sit down Virtua Racer. $27K, never did pay for itself.

LTG : )

#167 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

I must have missed something komrade.
I posted that according to the US Government cost of living index, the 1981 50¢ per play should have gone to 75¢ in 1991.
The price didn't go up. Pins and vids ( except the big sit down moving contraptions ) were stuck at 50¢ during the 1990's.
LTG : )

Coin op has always undervalued itself

#168 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

No. I did have the Sega sit down Virtua Racer. $27K, never did pay for itself.
LTG : )

Ouch that's the prob with vids for every good one you get. You have to pay for 3 dogs

#169 3 years ago

God Daytona was a frikkin beast when it came out...very annoying musically, but a money printer.

#170 3 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

God Daytona was a frikkin beast when it came out...very annoying musically, but a money printer.

Still earns good that's why most Dave and busters still have them

#171 3 years ago
Quoted from Allcastlegames:

Ouch that's the prob with vids for every good one you get. You have to pay for 3 dogs

My experience was a new vid, at least my gross would go up for awhile. Even with the dogs like Killer Instinct 2 or Midway's War Gods. Every time I bought a new pin, my gross didn't change. Just moving money around the room. So I didn't buy every new pin that came out.

LTG : )

#172 3 years ago

Yeah pinball is a fixture piece like a skee ball or air hockey they always make the same regardless but they usually stay consistent.

#173 3 years ago

KI-2 was hot garbage...luckily I don't even remember War Gods

#174 3 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

KI-2 was hot garbage

But 30 days later it made a nice cabinet for a conversion.

Quoted from TheLaw:

luckily I don't even remember War Gods

I had the mother of the games designer stopped in my business and asked how it was doing. She couldn't believe it was a dog, and "did I have it in the right location ? "

LTG : )

#175 3 years ago

$1.00 for new games, we know the prices they are paying.

#176 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

But 30 days later it made a nice cabinet for a conversion.

I had the mother of the games designer stopped in my business and asked how it was doing. She couldn't believe it was a dog, and "did I have it in the right location ? "
LTG : )

I saw WG on test in Chicago, at a well-known WMS test location. I *think* I may have seen one person play it one time, over several hours. It really did appear to be an absolute dog. Just awful.

And lest anyone think it was the location itself, that same location had a *massive* crowd when Mortal Kombat 3 went on test. I remember (I think it was) Ed Boon stopped by to play a bit himself, and when he beat someone, before he'd enter the Fatality code, he'd cover up the control panel with his body so others couldn't see what he was entering. That thing was raking in the cash...and War Gods couldn't even get people to coin it up.

There were dogs, yes...but there were many, many moneymakers in the day.

3 weeks later
#177 3 years ago
Quoted from Law:

They are also sponsored by Payrange, no?

The podcast is sponsored but Chris and myself receive nothing. They are a sponsor on the show by giving free play to listeners. We aren't interested in paid sponsors for our personal gain. Chris and I pay for the shows hosting, equipment, and website. We will continue doing that because we do the show for us because we enjoy it.

PayRange is talked about so positively on our show from our personal experience. It has helped us grow leaps and bounds! As of this post we are on track to double are business. We use PayRange for special events, and on this thread in regards to pricing, we have most of our games $1 Cash or .89 or 4 for $3 on PayRange.

I make absolutely no income from our sponsorship or our business. We are just really happy we have the technology in our games!

#178 3 years ago
Quoted from policano:

PayRange is talked about so positively on our show from our personal experience. It has helped us grow leaps and bounds! As of this post we are on track to double are business. We use PayRange for special events, and on this thread in regards to pricing, we have most of our games $1 Cash or .89 or 4 for $3 on PayRange.
I make absolutely no income from our sponsorship or our business. We are just really happy we have the technology in our games!

A few of us from coast to coast (sorry, Nate!) have followed your lead on this exact pricing with PayRange.

Earnings are up, and no complaints.

PayRange still has a lot of work to do...its Android app leaves a lot to be desired.

PayRange will never take off unless it achieves some sort of critical mass, and that's hard to do with only a handful of pinball machines, and no one else in town having it installed anywhere else, on anything.

-Mark

11 months later
#179 2 years ago
Quoted from PINQUEST:

Thanks for the responses! What does everyone think about the 50cent price point but making it VERY difficult to win free games? I want to keep it affordable and become an attraction locally. I understand the maintainace, and maybe some one more experienced with a route can chime in but here is my current business model,
Immediately LED, cliffy my machines, clean them every Saturday morning before the big Weekend crowd flows in. Wax as needed. My time honestly does not matter to me so I put zero value on my labor. I absolutely love working on machines and watching the joy folks get from playing the machines.
I may look at the break even a bit different then everyone else as this is NOT a full time job. This is really a way to keep my collection out of my house(for my girlfriends sanity) I have a local flipper who will purchase machines, I can buy a new machine for 5k, set a 1000k goal to "break even" and sell it to the flipper for 4K, then I view the rest as profit.
I truly love pinball and I want everyone else to experience the love and hopefully keep this bad ass game alive!!!!!

I am running that .50 tag on most of my games, but on any new ones I buy I ask more for them. .75. I am not in a very rich area so people have issue spending the buck. I am very picky about what I buy for locations. One thing I will say is know your location and the customer base there. I have a bar with a Space Station cleaning up right now....but they grow tired of pins quick and I have to change out the title often. I have a location with 6 pins and the one I spent the least to buy, Super Mario gets the most plays, my ghost busters makes the most money since it cost .75 and not .50. You dont have to buy all new machines to do it... solid running ones yes but I have bought many from someone who is flipping a pin and done well. Know the customers and locations is the key.

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