(Topic ID: 156023)

What price in a bar is fair?


By Ibanezshreader

3 years ago



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  • 180 posts
  • 75 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by mainelycoasters
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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There are 179 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 4.
#51 3 years ago

These same people will bitch about how there is "no pinball out on location anywhere, man!" or how dirty and abused the games are.

What do you expect? At 50 cents a game what's the point.

#52 3 years ago

The local arcade has 102 machines. New ones are generally set to four tokens (WoZ EE & Hobbit LE are five), a couple are three games for eight tokens. Older modern games are three tokens, EM & very old solid state games are two tokens.

Tokens are four for $1, eighty-eight for $20.

#53 3 years ago

Payrange
https://www.payrange.com/

I wish everyone had it.

#54 3 years ago
Quoted from Nevus:

Payrange
https://www.payrange.com/
I wish everyone had it.

To the other ops in this thread are any of you guys using this yet? If so can you comment on how you like it? Have you seen an increase in playing/revenue from using it?

#55 3 years ago
Quoted from Dr-Willy:

To the other ops in this thread are any of you guys using this yet? If so can you comment on how you like it? Have you seen an increase in playing/revenue from using it?

I wanted to go in fully, but didn't realize that it's not the $49 they say to set up pins, it's $69 because of an additional kit you need. Not a big difference, but something that wasn't budgeted for. As we are still a new business/location, we are still dealing with other startup costs. This one is not high on that list. But... I want to order a few soon. Was hoping to this month, but that's not happening. Maybe mid next month. Just finished paying for tax prep and other costs, so have to build back up a little.

#56 3 years ago
Quoted from desertT1:

I wanted to go in fully, but didn't realize that it's not the $49 they say to set up pins, it's $69 because of an additional kit you need. Not a big difference, but something that wasn't budgeted for. As we are still a new business/location, we are still dealing with other startup costs. This one is not high on that list. But... I want to order a few soon. Was hoping to this month, but that's not happening. Maybe mid next month. Just finished paying for tax prep and other costs, so have to build back up a little.

What additional kit? Is there a link on their site?

#57 3 years ago

IMO, if you got half the plays for twice the price, you are already ahead because of the reduced wear on your machines generating that same money.

#58 3 years ago

The only places where I think they can get away with the 50cents a play is where the bar owns the games, doesnt split the revenue and makes a killing on their drinks/food etc.

if you are splitting the quarters you are gonna not like your pricing for long.

I play a ton of location pin, and 50 cents/game is great, but if you set it higher and do the 3 for $2 bucks, I have no problem playing that 3 times, and chances are I'll win a free game in 3 tries. If its 75 cents/1 or 3 for $2, or $1 for 1, 3 for $2 im gonna put the 2 bucks in.

#59 3 years ago

Just took a look at their site. Its $49 for vending machines, $69 for amusement machines. Also looks like minimum 12 devices. Would love to put one on our bill changer. The end user fees would be less than our ATM so I suspect people would use it more.

Quoted from ForceFlow:

What additional kit? Is there a link on their site?

So as to not highjack the thread. At our location in Columbus Ohio, we do 50 cents, 3 for a $1 on all our DMD games. New Stern and JJP games are $1, 3 for $2. The customers don't seem to mind. I would say that at 50 cents, we are probably not even breaking even on the machines between acquisition, setup, maintenance, and power. We have a bar so we make some money there. The games that are a buck are all brand new so low maintenance. They do better than breaking even.

#60 3 years ago

To me I pay the same no matter what, so base you machines on how busy they are. If you have people waiting then make your games more expensive. If you don't then lower the price. I'm going to dump in the same amount of money per visit. I'll just visit more often if I get more play time. If no one is next in line does it matter if he plays for 5 or 7 minutes on his 2 dollars? Give me the 7 and I'll be back and drink more beer.

#61 3 years ago

yeah I like .50

the standard seems .75

new games a buck

But tbh I usually don't think the dollar games are worth it. If you go $1 please do the 2 for 3, for cheap people like me.

#62 3 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Pretty much standard from what I have seen in my travels.

"Pretty much standard from what I have seen in my travels."......and i don't think many know anyone who travels more for pinball!!

#63 3 years ago
Quoted from Darscot:

If you have people waiting then make your games more expensive.

Man, I'm usually waiting to get on newer games because they're $1, so everyone does 3/$2 then on top of replays I'm sitting there watching 5 long games of GOT! Don't make me pay more that experience Don't get me started on credit premiums for 5 credits at a time, I feel guilty hogging the machine that long every time!

#64 3 years ago
Quoted from Nevus:

Payrange
https://www.payrange.com/
I wish everyone had it.

4% per swipe! and to think, my uncle vinny went to jail for loan sharking!

#65 3 years ago

Are you only considering what us pinheads would pay? You may consider us the exception, in that we accept it as our fault when we have short ball/game times. The general public does not think that way. If someone not familiar drops coins into a game they may expect it to last more than a few seconds. If the game does not meet this expectation, the operator cannot expect more coins. Also, this business of doubling the replay score drives people away. Set the replay fairly, allow extra balls, let the newbs win. That is how I started, and I bet the thrill of a replay got you excited too. Excited enough to drop more money. Can I ask if you would play a slot machine that never paid out?

#66 3 years ago

2 plays per quarter, 5 balls a game. Of course I'm an em guy.

#67 3 years ago
Quoted from trufflepiggy:

Are you only considering what us pinheads would pay? You may consider us the exception, in that we accept it as our fault when we have short ball/game times. The general public does not think that way. Also, this business of doubling the replay score drives people away.

The "general public" doesn't understand replays and doesn't care about them. Go to a place where a lot of non-pinheads play and you'll find credits on machines all the time.

Low replay scores- like 20 million Metallica for example - don't encourage the GP to play, they are just freebies for pinheads who don't deserve them.

Sunshine laundry in NYC has 50 games and NO replays. Zero/zilch/nada. Games are set for EB instead (which I personally don't like) and the games never match. Games are .75 cents each and tilts are tighter than a frog's butthole. Games can be punishingly short.

Hasn't hurt their business at all and they have way more pinheads than GP frequenting the place.

It's been said a million times in this thread and I'll say it again...get your head out of the 80s. Movies don't cost $3 anymore, Corvettes aren't $30,000, a stamp isn't 20 cents, and pinball SHOULDN'T be 50 cents with tons of free games thrown in just to keep aging cheapskates who hardly ever hit locations anyway happy. For a decade plus we've been saying pinball needs to evolve or die, and that counts per game pricing.

The "general public" knows that in 2016, $1 isn't very much money, and that it's a fair price for even a brief game if they suck. Undermining this reality by underpricing games on location hurts location pinball as a whole, and just reinforces bad habits and attitudes of people living in the past.

#68 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

It's been said a million times in this thread and I'll say it again...get your head out of the 80s. Movies don't cost $3 anymore, Corvettes aren't $30,000, a stamp isn't 20 cents, and pinball SHOULDN'T be 50 cents with tons of free games thrown in just to keep aging cheapskates happy. For a decade plus we've been saying pinball needs to evolve or die, and that counts per game pricing.

You wouldn't mistake a movie made in the 90's for one made today, you wouldn't mistake a corvette from the 90's with one made today. The general public would not be able to tell the difference between most recent pins and those made during the early DMD era unless the license dated the game. Pinball has evolved through deeper rulesets, but they don't look much different besides the photoshopped art.

#69 3 years ago

Up in the far north, I charge $1 a game, 6 games for $5 (newer sterns/WoZ). Older DMD's are $1 a play, 3 games for $2.

3 for $2 is .66 cents a game.
6 for $5 is .83 cents a game.

We also have $1 and $2 coins up here. My machines do not take quarters.

#70 3 years ago

a buck (or .75 for older DMD games) is a bargain. factor how much these machines cost, and consider you can hardly get a candy bar for a buck these days, let alone a beer or a fast food burger, and it's a pretty good deal. heck it's cheaper than a can of soda from most vending machines at this point.

#71 3 years ago

You will be paying a lot more than a buck for some quick redemption game at Dave & Busters.

#72 3 years ago
Quoted from Bizzenya:

You wouldn't mistake a movie made in the 90's for one made today, you wouldn't mistake a corvette from the 90's with one made today. The general public would not be able to tell the difference between most recent pins and those made during the early DMD era unless the license dated the game. Pinball has evolved through deeper rulesets, but they don't look much different besides the photoshopped art.

As far as I can tell, it's not the "general public" whining about paying a fair price per game.

It's pinheads.

#73 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

As far as I can tell, it's not the "general public" whining about paying a fair price per game.
It's pinheads.

I have seen many examples of people turning their noses up at paying higher prices for pinball. Even had a guy ask me why I was playing the GOT LE when MET Pro was a quarter cheaper. You don't see the average person complaining because they just won't play and that would be the end of it

#74 3 years ago
Quoted from Bizzenya:

Even had a guy ask me why I was playing the GOT LE when MET Pro was a quarter cheaper.

Sounds like a pick up line.

#75 3 years ago
Quoted from Dr-Willy:

To the other ops in this thread are any of you guys using this yet? If so can you comment on how you like it? Have you seen an increase in playing/revenue from using it?

Payrange has been championed by the guys doing the coin box pinball podcast. They seem to have several months of experience with it and are very positive about the product. I would check that thread/pm those guys.

As a consumer that lives in a pinball desert, I would gladly pay $1 a game in a bar setting with 3-4 modern games. All I have access to is 80 and 90s beaters in laundromats and pizza places with one game next to 5 cranes and a basketball hoop. I realize that I may be a minority, but digital payment is the way of the future. It would be so nice to buy a beer and just swipe my phone over a game to coin it up.

#76 3 years ago

I truly appreciate all of the input/advice!

#77 3 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

nobody seems to have an issue paying $7 for a Corona
rd

Most upsetting thing in this thread. Any Brewer who puts their beer in a clear bottle doesn't care. Oh hell no. Back on topic, there is no issue from me for a well working machine to be 1.00 a game. I just played a GOT pro and got 16 credits for 10.00 and felt it was a bargain. Best 10 bucks I spent in awhile cause it saved me from buying a GOT.

#78 3 years ago
Quoted from Nevus:

Payrange has been championed by the guys doing the coin box pinball podcast. They seem to have several months of experience with it and are very positive about the product. I would check that thread/pm those guys.

They are also sponsored by Payrange, no?

#79 3 years ago

The question of prices is complicated by your market: if you're the only Op in town, that's one thing, but if not go have a look at what the other guy's doing.

For reference: In Oz, most of the machines were AU$1/play or more. In the big arcades they usually ran off a card system which had 'member's pricing' and bulk-buying discounts, but the label price was higher, say $1.40-1.50, and it often worked out to random-ass number like $1.32. You could often get time-play cards as well (unlimited plays for an hour, or whatever). Elsewhere they often had $1, 3/$2.

Here in Japan, neverland is ¥100/game, 3/¥200 on pre-stern DMDs, and 2/¥100 on EMs (on 3-ball play), but no matches and replay scores that are off-the-charts. Silverball planet in Osaka has prices from ¥10/play on beat up old EMs to ¥100 for new stuff. (The dollar is about ¥110 at the moment.)

#80 3 years ago
Quoted from Law:

They are also sponsored by Payrange, no?

Point taken. I think so, but didn't make the effort to check and didn't want to misrepresent them. It does seem like a good product.

#81 3 years ago

$0.50/3 plays per dollar. We've been doing it this way for 25 years and the games bring in nearly $400/week at our main location. Nobody complains about price, I regularly see the same person putting a handful of quarters in a single game. It's profitable for us and good entertainment for our patrons. Older DMDs and alphanumerics, nothing beyond 1995.

I've been to an arcade run by actual pinheads who have recently developed an attitude for not fixing major issues with their games. That's not going to fly with me.

#82 3 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

$0.50/3 plays per dollar. We've been doing it this way for 25 years and the games bring in nearly $400/week at our main location.

do you get 100% or do you have a split?

#83 3 years ago

I don't have location machines but as a player of location machines $.75 3/$2 is reasonable for older DMDs and $1 per play or 3/$2 for newer machines. Charging less doesn't always equate to more play. Might be difficult for you to change your pricing structure overnight on all of them since you've already established these games at $.50. Raising the price on the newer machines like Kiss and TWD would be the first thing to change. I have no problem paying $1 to play the newer Sterns at the local movie theater because I have nowhere else to try them out. The titles more than the prices are what get my money. Crappy titles even at $.50 are crappy titles. You seem to have a pretty solid line-up with broad appeal.

If you have no competition, you are the pinball monopoly of your area. Charging reasonable prices that are fair to both parties is what to do. I enjoy the hobby like everyone else but putting a cheap price on doesn't equate to instantly gaining enthusiasts and sometimes equates to low cost/low value entertainment. Don't make it so that, when all is said and done, you are paying people to play pinball. Good luck and hopefully you succeed in both of your goals of exposing new people to the hobby and getting paid.

#84 3 years ago

I don't have a problem paying $1 a game if your machines are in good condition. Sadly, 70% of the games I try to play on location are not even worth playing and I would pass if they are on free play. I rarely attempt to play machines in the wild anymore because the majority are simply unplayable.

#85 3 years ago

OP, it seems the biggest peice of the puzzle is if you are splitting the quarters or not.

#86 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

do you get 100% or do you have a split?

They are owned by our location so 100%.

#87 3 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

$0.50/3 plays per dollar. Older DMDs and alphanumerics, nothing beyond 1995.

That's great for people who bought their games NIB 20 years ago and still have them. However if you are op'ing NIB games today those prices just aren't profitable.

#88 3 years ago

I agree, it heavily depends on what you are willing to invest and how much you pay if buying new equipment.

#89 3 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

IMO, if you got half the plays for twice the price, you are already ahead because of the reduced wear on your machines generating that same money.

The op said he was doing this route to keep his collection out of the house, let people enjoy pinball and to keep pinball available to the public. He said it isn't about the money.

I would think he'd want cheaper rates to keep the players happy & coming back.

#90 3 years ago

The general public has also been spoiled by app games, I think. Redemption games will always rake it in when there's a perceived 'value' in the tickets, which apps can't replicate. I don't think pinball is seen in the same way though, or appreciated by the general iPhone-wielding public as its own physical product, when there's a glut of cheap Pinball Arcade downloads to impulse purchase. Though if I'm wrong I'll be happy to be told so.

#91 3 years ago

Here in Europe, the equivalent of $1.50 and up per play has been commonplace for two decades. It only seems cheaper in comparison now due to the pound's shitty exchange rate.

#92 3 years ago
Quoted from Nevus:

Point taken. I think so, but didn't make the effort to check and didn't want to misrepresent them. It does seem like a good product.

It is good product and I honestly don't believe they get financial backing from promoting them. I've been on that podcast a couple of times now and I know Tony promotes it because he loves the product. I know it has come in handy for me. I always have my phone, but rarely do I have much cash on me. There have been times I would not have been able to spend money on games at his location without it.

#93 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Dear lord.
"Gouged?"
Since everybody is getting rich on .25 and .50 cent games, you should start a route and show us how it's done.

I don't think this guy realizes what games cost nowadays NIB.

#94 3 years ago
Quoted from Nevus:

Point taken. I think so, but didn't make the effort to check and didn't want to misrepresent them. It does seem like a good product.

They run ads for them, but have said many times that they get nothing out of it. They do get beta access to hardware Payrange is looking to test in the wild, but I wouldn't consider that a perk. Tony has said that they bought the units that are in their machines.

Also, it says you have to buy 12 at a minimum in the dropdown, but I've seen people say you can get fewer if you contact them.

#95 3 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

$0.50/3 plays per dollar. We've been doing it this way for 25 years and the games bring in nearly $400/week at our main location. Nobody complains about price, I regularly see the same person putting a handful of quarters in a single game. It's profitable for us and good entertainment for our patrons. Older DMDs and alphanumerics, nothing beyond 1995.
I've been to an arcade run by actual pinheads who have recently developed an attitude for not fixing major issues with their games. That's not going to fly with me.

A $400/week location sounds good. Of course, it depends on the number of games to get that $400, too. There may be an even greater opportunity to grow more revenue with newer equipment. However, if you are satisfied with the total top line and net profit, then it sounds like it is working for you.

How often do you rotate in different pins?

#96 3 years ago

We can't afford to buy any more equipment in any condition so given the circumstances I think we are, for the most part, pretty fortunate. We rotate games based on playable condition and what surrounding locations need swapped out so I would say every 3 or 4 months, sometimes longer.

#97 3 years ago
Quoted from nipenzo:

I don't have a problem paying $1 a game if your machines are in good condition. Sadly, 70% of the games I try to play on location are not even worth playing and I would pass if they are on free play. I rarely attempt to play machines in the wild anymore because the majority are simply unplayable.

yeah -- when i say a dollar a game is fair, i am talking about new games in a well maintained state in a decent location, not some poor neglected half-working forgotten junker that's just there to fill up space between the claw machine and the Golden Tee.

#98 3 years ago

$1.00/$2.00 for 3 plays - newer pins (past 5 years)
$0.75/$1.50 for 3 plays - DMDs
$0.50/$1.00 for 3 plays - solid state
$0.50 for EMs on 5 ball

That's my $0.02

#99 3 years ago

Newer games are $1 per play in my neck of the woods. And none lower than .75.

#100 3 years ago

3 plays for $2 is a good guide. 3 plays for $1 doesn't really stand up today. you will have a hard time making a profit, unless you own the business you have them in and don't have to do a split with the owner.

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