This is where you need to know your players/customers/locations.

What is doing great at my place might not do good at your location.

LTG : )

Can’t go wrong with mmr. It always has been my top earner. New games like IMDN will beat it but only for a few moths.

I would think so too, but interestingly enough a big operator here was trying to sell one of his Star Wars because it didn't earn nearly as well as he thought it would. Only 9 months old, worked perfectly, but he couldn't even get $4500 for it on resale and had to drop the price to $4100 to finally sell it...and it took several days to sell at that price.

A few that do well for us are Star Wars, Metallica and Guardians.

Star wars , Metallica , Walking dead , Startrek ( stern ) , Spiderman

If you are catering to pinball enthusiasts then the top 20 on pinside is a great place to start. Buy some of the games that are less likely in players private collection and you will do well. If your location is not know for pinball players then theme is your best friend. Star wars / Guardians / Deadpool. What you are looking for is theme mass appeal. Also look to do something to draw attention to your game. All the action is in the playfield. Speaker lights animated LCD and a flashy topper always increases visibility. More visible = More Money.

Games are very location specific. Consider the following: Not to easy in fear of long play times. Not too hard Don't want people to get so discouraged and not replay. Position in the room for maximum exposure is very important as well.

These tips help my locations. Hopefully they can do the same for you as well. Good Luck!

I have never found this to be true. In fact, I have never seen any add-on be worth the extra cost.

Invest in LEDs if you want to do something for visability, but toppers and bright flashy lights on speakers seem to do little IME.

Everything else is pretty spot on.

I always encourage people to provide a minimum of 4 games and make sure you have a variety.
1 Modern, 1 classic DMD, 1 Classic solidstate, and 1 EM
Prices these across the spectrum.
Dont worry about catering to collectors as they already have access to the games. Cater to the players and the casuals.

Visibility is always key. Do whatever you can to get the players/customers attention. You can do away with the toppers and speaker lights if you so choose. Just do what you can to put there eyes on the playfield.

As Lloyd said every location is just a bit different. Figured I'd add what's doing well around here..

Star Wars - recently put out, great game and I expect long term popularity.
Dead pool-great so far
Iron maiden-has been consistent since day one launch
Met- started slow, but has become steady. I'd buy another one honestly it's a great game all around.
TWD-great with players and I never should have moved it from its old location. It currently does terrible with its new
location which is mostly casuals. Currently set up very easy as well.

Congo-consistently does well, more maintance lately but mostly that is labor and not parts.
WCS- consistently great
Shaq-consistently very good, although at this point we are tired of working on any sys3 and this will prob be my last one.
Shaq has been very reliable tho after its initial tear down.
Family guy- consistent and has been a good game maintance wise as well

Those are just a few off the top of me head. I really should make a long term thread on some of these. I'd really like to get more people that operate pins to discuss and or help each other out in this sub forum. Yes many things are region specific but I'm sure we could all learn from each other.

I'm not an operator but I really enjoy the info guys. Great thread.

I have a small location, 3 games, and its weird because the games you would think would earn like crazy have been the biggest fails.

TWD- earned amazing. Almost paid for itself in a year
GB- did great its first month. totally tanked right after.
Kiss- eh. wasn't bad, wasn't good
Rollergames- one of the most consistent earners I have had
BOP- people still ask when im bringing it back in
F14- probably the lowest earning pin I've tried so far
Deadpool - so far so good, the bar has been slow itself but its earning steady
Hook - did good. sold it and just recently bought another

I try to switch games out every few months but keep one new game in as long as I can.

Theater of magic, Williams IJ and WoZ are my biggest earners out of about 30 titles

I have 8 games I can rotate out on route into 4 spots. Dirty Harry, Cirqus Voltaire, Scared Stiff, Whitewater, Avatar, AC/DC, Deadpool and Iron Maiden.

Dirty Harry did meh.
Circus Voltaire was pretty steady but has been declining lately
Scared Stiff is steady too but did real well at Halloween (go figure)
Whitewater continues to kill it every time I collect. I've actually paid for that game over multiple times.
Avatar seemed to do real well too. Steadily out-earned CV and SS all the time, but not by much.
AC/DC never really did well, kinda like DH. I thought this would have been a money maker. Oye!
Deadpool raked in almost as much money as 3 games combined in 2 weeks! I've never had a game earn like that!
Iron Maiden is heading out on route this week to replace CV. I suspect it will give DP a run for it's money...

EDIT: If you are interested in seeing the DP haul...

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/deadpool-owners-club-free-chimichangas-for-all/page/32#post-4796350

This is true at least for me and the group I play with. There are a lot of locations by us with mainly new Sterns and JJP games and a smattering of top 50 B/W games. While those are great, the places I find myself wanting to go to are places I can try games I haven't played a billion times (which are great and I still like them). A newer location just opened by us in a bowling alley and they put in a few new games (Deadpool, JJP Pirates, SW, GB) but also have LW3, Rocky and Bullwinkle, RTC, Maverick, DE Batman, and some system 11s like Diner, Rollergames, and Pinbot. I obviously can't speak to how they earn, but we've gone back a few times for a few hours each time just because it's something different we don't get a chance to play anywhere else.

Geez, I must've missed that one...!

Yeah, Summit Amusement was selling it. I talked to Nick and he said it just didn't earn like he thought it would. it started at $4400 and went down from there. Was at $4100 for a full week before someone bought it. I thought about it multiple times, but I didn't have anything I wanted to get rid of to make room and cash for it.

#star-wars-stern-le I've seen multiple casual players plunge, hit the stand-ups and bounce directly to the outlane, then the ball save auto-launch does the same thing. I guarantee that player isn't putting any more money in that pin, probably no other pin at the location. At least one of them just walked away without finishing the game.
That is the most maddening design flaw I can think of if you don't count Magic Girl which was never truly finished.

Ha, I play a ton of pinball and this happens to me ALL. THE. TIME. on this game. I've tried to love it, because I'm a huge Star Wars fan too, but it is honestly just maddening, especially at a buck a pop on location. I'd love to spend an hour or two straight on it somewhere and really get into it, but this is a really fair point. I have no problem "owning my drains" but when I don't even get a chance to flip on a modern game...come on...

Programming probably has a strength adjustment for the auto-plunger, or the ball guide could be adjusted to fix this.
I would call the operator out for not trying to tune the game, rather than dismiss the game for having a "design flaw'.
Star wars earns great for me, in both casual locations and player locations.

I’d call it a design flaw. Does it on mine, and every single one of my friends (4) machines that I’ve played. Still love it, but it’s annoying.

If it were only one or two of them I would agree. I've played half a dozen and they all do this sometimes. When a typical game sometimes doesn't even let you flip I call it a design flaw.

Every game has its freak bounce but it's much more common on Star Wars (Pro)-le and Star Wars (Pro) I hate it. I want to throw the game off a roof every time it happens.

If you don't hate it too then I hate you, your family, your dog, and I insult your lineage to the nth degree! j/k Donavan. Glad it's earning well. I think the rules and theme are great, it's just that one thing for me.

Sterns POTC has been a steady earner. That ship sinking gets me every time

Deadpool
Star Wars
GOTG
GOT
Batman 66
MB
IJ
TNA

Iron Maiden isn't doing as well
Dialed In is one of the lowest earners

I am kinda surprised to see that South Park has not been mentioned as a great earner.

So, I have an extra Monopoly that I could sell, but I'd like to get into routing pins. I realize this isn't a great title. But, I've talked with several people that told me Monopoly does well on location because just about everyone knows what monopoly is and the game is approachable (as well as being a reasonable fun game).

For those to do route games, is Monopoly a consistent earner? I wouldn't expect it to be a top earner, but curious if what I've been told is true or not.

You won't know until you try.

Might do great. Might do good. Might not.

What works for one location may or may not work for you.

LTG : )

I don't know why, but Iron Man is earning well.

Thanks for sharing that, the images are neat to see a coinbox all loaded up!

Seems like Iron Man always does well. Good theme. Addictive. Never breaks down. Easy multiball for beginners. Endless challenge for experts. Short ball times. Good music and call outs. Pretty much the perfect route pin.

Iron man is one of my lowest earning moderns next to TNA. I knew before getting them that, that was going to be the case.
it's all about Theme and is it nice to casual players.
Both of those titles are not nice at all.

Ha! I have a cat!
My Star Wars also sent the ball SDTM off the left orbit when it was new, guess that was a design flaw too. Oh well, I guess I'm just used to tuning in all the flawed designs and it doesn't bother me anymore.
Back to the earning topic, I think all the newer gams with the LCD from Stern earn well, the worst maybe being Aerosmith?

Star Wars has been outstanding the entire time, even though a lot of the regulars ignore it. (Also, only game priced at $1).

Ghostbusters was probably the best earning game I've ever had.

Deadpool is off to an extremely strong start...consistently well above average with no drop-off since the end of the first month honeymoon period.

Wizard of Oz is consistently way above average, no matter where I put it.

Game on Thrones started out great for the first six months. Then was average for seven months. Then had a 15 month streak way above average. Yes...it magically became a better earner. Then back to average. The bracket on the sword mech broke after about 10,000 plays. Not sure I had to do anything else other than a flipper rebuild and a few rubbers.

Twilight Zone was great until it started going crazy on me.

Addams Family has been in the same spot for four years, and is still consistently above average (even at 50 cents where modern sterns are 75).

Iron Maiden dropped down to a completely average earner after the first two months.

Metallica had a great run, but eventually dropped off. And is very location dependent. I think this was being propped up by a few regulars in one location. Nothing ever goes wrong with it though.

Stern Indiana Jones has been consistently average, and often a little above average. I consider it a great earner given that it's a terrible game to play, but players with novice skills love it for the 8 ball multiball.

Dialed In pretty much bombed, especially given the price. At 75 cents, Dialed In consistently earned the equivalent of a $3k Bally/Williams priced at 50 cents.

South Park bombed at one location, and became the top earner when moved to a different venue.

Fish Tales, Congo, Wheel of Fortune, and World Cup Soccer have all been consistently in the bottom half/quarter...but never bad enough to get kicked out of a lineup.

Also, my 25 cent games consistently get the most plays at every collection (Prospector, Old Chicago, Paragon). If ROI is important, you can't go wrong. I never have to do anything to those games (except once in a while a 40-50 year old piece of metal will break).

Spot welder comes in handy for EM's.

LTG : )

How does this compare to soldering? Everyone I know always takes things to their "welding guy", so I assume it's a whole other level of commitment/complexity?

Spot welding is welding. Way stronger than soldering. You have two big copper tips on the bars reaching out of the box with the electronics. Great for EM's. Bracket brakes. Lay a piece of metal across the break, put a spot weld on each side of crack. Fixed. Last another 50 years.

Best tool my father ever bought.
LTG : )

This is a really cool thread with fascinating info

Thanks for all the work you put in on the pins for TX SCS!
I hope your location thrives.

It never ceases to amaze me how some games differ so widely form location to location and region to region.

I thought you might find this interesting. This is game play data from Blizzard Mountain Pinball (Conifer, CO) for all the games we have since we opened October 1, 2017. The Hobbit is the most popular game by a fair margin. Iron Maiden was the top earner for several months but has now dropped to third. Medieval Madness is a consistent earner.

Game pricing is generally $1 per play for newer Sterns, $0.75 for older Sterns/Williams (except for MM which is $1), $0.50 for pre-DMD games (except Banzai Run which is $0.75). The video games are $0.50.

Players can choose a timed card where they pay by the hour, or get discounts for putting money on a swipe-card (for instance, $20 gets $23 worth of play), so the game pricing is actually a bit less on average than the "quarter price" above. Also of note - I estimate quarters only account for about 10% of the overall play, but they get used on the $0.50 and $0.75 games much more than the $1 games.

With a couple of exceptions, the 50 cent games do not earn enough to pay for their share of the rent/electricity. As much as they are admired, people just don't seem to play them as much as the newer games, even though they are less expensive to play! I still like them so they'll stay.

I do my best to keep the games playing as good as possible. I have found Stern games to be about as reliable overall compared to the older Williams games. Of course, the Stern games do get played more, so I suppose that means they are more reliable overall. The game I have the most problems with is Jurassic Park. The two JJP games have been relatively solid, especially Hobbit which is good since it gets the most play. I have had light board issues with Woz, and now one of the pop bumpers has broken but otherwise it's been good.

I don't think any of the pinball games have 'paid for themselves' yet when taking into account depreciation, the cost of electricity and rent for the floor space they take up.

Gauntlet is a huge winner when we have birthday parties (unlimited play for guests of the party) - being a 4-player cooperative game it is generally mobbed during those times. Outside of parties it generally sits idle.

JJP Pirates of the Caribbean is hopefully coming soon. Even though we are only getting a Standard, it'll still be the most expensive game we have ever purchased. Might have to go to $1.25 "quarter price" on it... Scary...

Game_Name % of total earnings (average per day)
1. The Hobbit LE 5.03%
2. Medieval Madness 4.80%
3. Iron Maiden Premium 4.16%
4. Gauntlet 4.00%
5. Indiana Jones (Williams)3.42%
6. Wizard of Oz 3.40%
7. Game of Thrones Prem 3.26%
8. Ghostbusters Premium 3.18%
9. Star Trek Premium 2.99%
10. Galaga/Ms Pac-Man 2.98%
11. AC/DC Premium 2.93%
12. Jurassic Park 2.82%
13. Addams Family 2.67%
14. Shrek 2.61%
15. Aerosmith Premium 2.56%
16. Banzai Run 2.31%
17. America's Most Haunt 2.30%
18. Big Buck Hunter 2.28%
19. Whitewater 2.28%
20. Elvis 2.23%
21. TOTAN 2.23%
22. FunHouse 2.20%
23. Getaway 2.14%
24. Spider-Man 2.13%
25. World Cup Soccer 2.12%
26. Iron Man 2.10%
27. Avatar LE 2.06%
28. Fish Tales 2.00%
29. Wheel of Fortune 1.95%
30. Defender 1.76%
31. Black Knight 1.69%
32. WhoDunnit 1.66%
33. Supersonic 1.65%
34. World Poker Tour 1.59%
35. Pinbot 1.45%
36. Fire! 1.41%
37. Time Machine 1.36%
38. Medusa 1.35%
39. Whirlwind 1.35%
40. Mousin' Around 1.32%
41. Earthshaker! 1.21%
42. Dr. Dude 1.06%

Thanks for reading.

Best earning game--Wizard of Oz, if it was more reliable I would still have it. Fixed something on it every single week I had it.

Strong earning games--Deadpool, Star Wars, Guardians of the Galaxy, Ghostbusters, Game of Thrones, Medieval Madness

Above average--Addams Family, Metallica, Walking Dead, Dialed In--though it took some time for people to appreciate it, Quicksilver, Eight Ball Deluxe, Iron Man, AFM, MB, Banzai Run, Joker Poker, Stern KISS, Star Trek Pro and LE

Average--Avengers Pro, Wheel of Fortune, Williams Indiana Jones, Evel Knievel, Centaur, Mystic, Silver Slugger, Cactus Jack's, Surf'n Safari, TSPP, Houdini, Bally KISS, World Cup Soccer, Sopranos, ACDC LTBR, Bally Playboy, Ripley's Believe it or Not

Below Average--Avengers LE Hulk, Tron Legacy LE, Tommy, Bally Viking, Avatar, Aerosmith, Elvis, Fathom, Iron Maiden-started off great then fell off a cliff, Mustang LE, Skateball, JJP Pirates--holding out hope that this one gets better, Hobbit

Poor--Nascar, I-500, Full Throttle, TNA, 24, PBR

Other thoughts, if your lineup is full of newer games then the newest stuff will cannibilize other normally good titles for a period of time. After the newness wears off, which is usually two to three months, then you will find out if a game is really any good or not. Some of the average earning games would be stars in lineups with lesser titles, or in single pin locations as people will play whatever you have set up. Everything is location dependent, what earns well in one location may not earn well in another. If you are in one stand alone location your decision to buy a game with an unknown earning potential has an element of risk attached to it, whereas operators with several locations have a better chance of reducing that risk and improving ROI.

These machines have been earning well for me. The casual fans like Mario

FCDB21EA-948E-431D-BF19-AC70CC9A1B8B (resized).jpeg

Dr Dude..... last!?!? Makes me sad, I want one

This one surprises me. I would have thought AC/DC would do very well with pinheads and non-pinheads alike.

One of the shorter lived pins we ever had on route.

So why do you think the game is so popular and yet such a poor earner?

I don't think it is popular for any reason beyond theme. With collectors they will keep a game forever just because of theme and it had a bunch of hype so people liked the cool factor. IMHO is was super overhyped.

On route, you play it a few times, get tired of "oye. Oye. Oye" and find the code pretty boring combine with that cannon blocking the left outlane which makes you feel cheated.