(Topic ID: 198142)

What pin would you consider the most brutal and why?


By MK6PIN

1 year ago



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  • 92 posts
  • 50 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by o-din
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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There are 92 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 1 year ago

As already mentioned a few times FG is crazy brutal. For DMD games BSD is probably first or close to it. I always see a lot of people say IM but I don't find it all that brutal. AFM can have some drains from the ship but it's far from a brutal game. Pretty much every EM is more brutal then every game mentioned.

#52 1 year ago

Looking at your lineup and the type of pins you seem to like.... you really need a star trek premium in the lineup. The warp ramp shot is 2nd to none. The ship feels like it's shooting at you when the magnet whips the ball right at the flippers.

#53 1 year ago

High Speed without an upper right flipper is pretty tough too

#54 1 year ago
Quoted from pcprogrammer:

Looking at your lineup and the type of pins you seem to like.... you really need a star trek premium in the lineup. The warp ramp shot is 2nd to none. The ship feels like it's shooting at you when the magnet whips the ball right at the flippers.

Played an LE and came very, very close...counting on my AlienLE ( if it ever shows) to add a different vibe to the lineup, but wouldnt consider that game brutal, rather intriguing and oozing theme.

Guess Im just not good enough on AFMRLE yet. Being new, everything very bright and super "active". Im getting better at the combos, so its starting to flow for me better. Really like it, but really unforgiving when you have " post city" games....

#55 1 year ago

Personally I find WOZ to be pretty brutal -- the wide-ass TOTO and TNPLH outlanes are drain monsters that sometimes seem to have magnets under them drawing the pinballs down.

#56 1 year ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

Played an LE and came very, very close...counting on my AlienLE ( if it ever shows) to add a different vibe to the lineup, but wouldnt consider that game brutal, rather intriguing and oozing theme.
Guess Im just not good enough on AFMRLE yet. Being new, everything very bright and super "active". Im getting better at the combos, so its starting to flow for me better. Really like it, but really unforgiving when you have " post city" games....

Have you played Alien? I gave it a pretty solid chance recently. I found it very boring overall to play. The pin did represent the theme nicely but the gameplay felt flat.

#57 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballBJB:

Personally I find WOZ to be pretty brutal -- the wide-ass TOTO and TNPLH outlanes are drain monsters that sometimes seem to have magnets under them drawing the pinballs down.

P.S. -- and even when you get to try to save the ball from TNPLH or second-chance TOTO, completing all the shots within the allotted time is near impossible (at least for me).

#58 1 year ago

There are different kinds of brutal. Mine are mostly associated with cheap SDTM drains.

TWD - When I played my first game prior to leveling it out, I think I put a flipper on a ball twice in one entire game. It was draining SDTM down along the right ramp and if I was able to hit the ball, also from the prison. It was so absurd that I laughed at the time, but little did I know how difficult it would be to setup TWD to minimize various cheap drains. Now that I've got it reasonably set up, I still accidently hit the prison with a weak shot after ball save has expired and take a SDTM.

IMVE - A miss of the left ramp where it joins the center Monger shot that hits square on the drone target in between sends a zinger SDTM. And it's not as if IM needs a SDTM to kick you in the nutts, the outlanes are brutal when side-to-side gets going, plus the Monger/Whiplash magnets know just how to hit the left and center drains, which seems to happen at least once a game. My IMVE sits next to Avengers and I've come really close to doing a Hulk smash on the playfield glass many times.

#59 1 year ago
Quoted from pcprogrammer:

Have you played Alien? I gave it a pretty solid chance recently. I found it very boring overall to play. The pin did represent the theme nicely but the gameplay felt flat.

I did , at expo last year....this is a grail for me, and it will have to be very, very bad for me to ever let it go....I actually enjoyed some of the shots, even in proto phase....

#60 1 year ago

In all seriousness. Fish Tales and Centaur are two games I can never get a handle on. Both games are so tight and in your face. One missed shot and you're in big trouble. It's funny, because they are such different games but the dangers and the feeling I get while playing them are very similar.

#61 1 year ago
Quoted from taz:

There are different kinds of brutal. Mine are mostly associated with cheap SDTM drains.
TWD - When I played my first game prior to leveling it out, I think I put a flipper on a ball twice in one entire game. It was draining SDTM down along the right ramp and if I was able to hit the ball, also from the prison. It was so absurd that I laughed at the time, but little did I know how difficult it would be to setup TWD to minimize various cheap drains. Now that I've got it reasonably set up, I still accidently hit the prison with a weak shot after ball save has expired and take a SDTM.
IMVE - A miss of the left ramp where it joins the center Monger shot that hits square on the drone target in between sends a zinger SDTM. And it's not as if IM needs a SDTM to kick you in the nutts, the outlanes are brutal when side-to-side gets going, plus the Monger/Whiplash magnets know just how to hit the left and center drains, which seems to happen at least once a game. My IMVE sits next to Avengers and I've come really close to doing a Hulk smash on the playfield glass many times.

This post hits my point straight on.....examples of brutal ( for the sake of this thread), and only referencing my lineup:

1) Brutal 1- a game that punches back. IMVE and TRONLE . With the shot layout, and certain mechanisms, these dare you to complete modes, then makes you pay dearly. IMVE has so much orbit speed and magnet action it is literally a relentless assault at times, Tron's disc is a game changer ( at least w the clear one), and to make certain shots it will punish you.
2) Brutal 2- AFMRLE- maybe because I haven't played it enough, but this thing is begging you for combos, destroying martians and spaceships ( so far). It feels like there are 12 posts in you face, and the outlines are 3 feet wide. Miss a shot, or get the side to side going, and profanity starts....

Non Brutal: ( a couple)

WOZ- frustrating? Yes. I may own the game forever and never see the rules through...play for melt the Witch almost exclusively, but I never have to take a defensive posture, just try and stay calm. Magnet action is fun, but don't ever find it threatening.

TAF and WCS- both my " wind down" games. I know them very well, have beaten the crap out of both of them, but still find great enjoyment with a friendly , relaxed session. Enough flow, great callouts, beautiful games, etc. to be keepers, but never an " aggressive" play.

As stated initially, I just love playing pinball, and really enjoy my lineup at the moment. Just anxious to hear of other aggressive, ball breakers out there....some fun reads, so far....

#62 1 year ago

I've only played WoZ a few times on location but without knowing the rules that game is frustratingly brutal.

#63 1 year ago

Doctor Who. The short lightning flippers and the RIDICULOUS outlane drains are a killer. Your game is over before you started

#64 1 year ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

RIDICULOUS outlane drains

That's Barry Oursler at his finest. All of his games have absolutely the most brutal outlanes/inlanes of the modern era. I'm no good at nudging, so when I see a ball headed to the outside of the slings, I prepare myself for the worst.

Gorgar: DrainTown.
Pinbot: DrainCity.
Space Station: Lol, you wanted inlanes?
BSD: Hit the standup targets to be the mayor of DrainVille.

Honestly, the only game where he's been kind to us is JunkYard, where you can hit the ball recycle targets to save outlane drains. Since that was his last game, maybe that was his final parting gift to the players. A "forgive me, for my outlanes have sinned."

#65 1 year ago

Of the games I own, I think Avatar is the most brutal, yet fun and challenging. That's why I like it and own it.

#66 1 year ago

Ghostbusters, Iron Man, and F-14 are 3 pins that come to mind as most brutal. Doesn't need much explanation why.

#67 1 year ago

In my experience, which is predominantly EMs, the most brutal game is Gottlieb "High Hand"/"Capt. Card". The angles can be treacherous. So many zero balls, and it has a bonus feature which awards you nothing if you drain between the flippers, which happens all too often. Even if you complete all the target banks, it teases you by alternating the "payoff" between the side lanes, and a difficult to pocket kickout hole in the center of the playfield. A close second is Gottlieb "Royal Flush"/"Card Whiz" which always frustrated the crap out of me back in the day at the local arcade.

#68 1 year ago

Nobody has mentioned POTO yet. Either I've got the meanest one on the planet or it's getting overlooked. IM, Paragon, Stars, and Flash Gordon are also a kick in the balls!!!

#69 1 year ago

Well these types of polls really show how much diversity of games people play. As Aurich said anyone mentioning a ball saver game as the most brutal is laughable. MM...AFM...WTF.
EMs & SS easily rule this roost and for me Dragoon and not even close.

Quoted from WMSpin:

Nobody has mentioned POTO yet. Either I've got the meanest one on the planet or it's getting overlooked.

You have the meanest one...never found that game to be very tough.

#70 1 year ago

Every game I own is brutal. And that's what I strive for. It may be a toss up between Big Daddy, Trade Winds, Pinky, and Wms. El Toro for the most brutal here.

#71 1 year ago

These two games are right next to each other in my gameroom. And brutal is the only word for it. I scream when I have a good song jackpot and think how much better it would be doubled... F&$k! Stupid idiot, just take it as is. No matter what I'm irritated at it. But on that rare night it works out, I feel like a pinball God! Mines the VE, and I love it.

IMVE is awesome. The do or die hurry up is perfect. All on one ball, or out go the lights. Super jackpots (flashing insert) are very rare with the exception of monger. I always feel like I'm just a couple shots away, but then the next shot is hitting the start button.

Both brutal, both thrilling. Get either, and prepare the swearing.

#72 1 year ago
Quoted from megalo17:

I've played most of the above and I can't believe nobody has said MET! Fastest drains for me next to SW.

We can play a 4 player game on my Flash Gordon, set to 5 balls, while someone else is still on ball one of my Metallica if they're having a good game. These modern games are great, love them, but they're nothing even close to brutal. They're full of ball saves, easy multiballs, with long ass ball saves on those too, backhandable safe shots, it's just not that hard to keep a ball going on a modern Stern.

#73 1 year ago
Quoted from Aurich:

We can play a 4 player game on my Flash Gordon, set to 5 balls,

I can play a three ball game of Flash Gordon after an hour in the garage playing the short flipper EMs and it seems like child's play, relatively speaking.

#74 1 year ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Well these types of polls really show how much diversity of games people play. As Aurich said anyone mentioning a ball saver game as the most brutal is laughable. MM...AFM...WTF.

Agreed ( except I had no idea what to put in the poll)....some more great comments.

I do disagree w Aurich on ball save machines being a laughable choice. I turn that off on most of my machines, and has zero impact on how viscous some of these things are. I've played tons of EMs years ago ( that's all there was, as I recall) and recall most of them being pretty intense on the analog, gameplay side. Loved them ( still do) and play whenever I find one.

Never had one blind me with a strobe, however, or destroy me w random ball hurls. Technology is a good thing, when deployed properly.

#75 1 year ago

FT with lightning flippers, because it's FT with lightning flippers....

#76 1 year ago

Groovy! Pop bumper outlanes, a wall of drops, iffy returns from the upper half of the playfield, and that big gaping gap between the dinky flippers. And yet, I play it over and over...

#77 1 year ago

Avatar is brutal imo - everyone says it's IM like, but has more posts without the benefit of at least making drone target hits... You have to do all modes on one ball, or complete them to carry over, to reach the wizard mode. No mini-wizard like Jericho. And lets not overlook that the freaking left outlane is a bitch.

#78 1 year ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

I do disagree w Aurich on ball save machines being a laughable choice. I turn that off on most of my machines, and has zero impact on how viscous some of these things are.

The way they extend multiballs is a much bigger factor than if they save a bad ball a few seconds after launch.

It's fine, just how the games are designed, but they're much easier because of it.

#79 1 year ago

I can't think of any games made in the last 25 years that I would call brutal, period.

Edit- but I am yet to play TNA

#80 1 year ago
Quoted from Aurich:

The way they extend multiballs is a much bigger factor than if they save a bad ball a few seconds after launch.
It's fine, just how the games are designed, but they're much easier because of it.

This makes sense. Multiball, however, could be argued as the best enhancement to revive interest in " modern" pinball ( my TAF is 25 years old). Different thread, however.

IM is Brutal to me, guess this was my bar of sorts. Not meant to be an " EM vs. DMD" kinda thing....

#81 1 year ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

Multiball, however, could be argued as the best enhancement to revive interest in " modern" pinball

When did this multiball enhancement begin?

#82 1 year ago

Yeah I get it...EM's are the most brutal. As mentioned (frequently!), FG just chews me up every, single, time.
Yeah I suck at pinball but I'm still gonna cry about how ACDC just kicks my ass every, single, time. Just can't figure this damn thing out. Hardest machine I've owned easily. Maybe I just need a Big Daddy next to it so I can feel like a champ on my 3m games.

#83 1 year ago
Quoted from Gryszzz:

Yeah I get it...EM's are the most brutal.

Not all. I find most 70s EMs with three inch flippers very easy. Just like most other recent games with long flippers and inlanes.

But shorten the flippers and take away those inlanes, and you will be transported back to a time when your pockets were emptied rapidly.

#84 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

When did this multiball enhancement begin?

First one I remember playing was Fireball ( yes an EM)....who knows where I was going w the TAF thing ( it doesnt have ball save anyway)

#85 1 year ago

I should have titled it " what is the most brutal machine, excluding all EM's "....sarcasm, sorry..

#86 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

But shorten the flippers and take away those inlanes, and you will be transported back to a time when your pockets were emptied rapidly.

It would make sense that early machines are harder, they after all had one purpose in mind and that was to generate operators money.

Newer games are I'd wager geared towards home use and the design criteria is a touch different no? I'd suspect longer ball times are a higher priority.

#87 1 year ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

I should have titled it " what is the most brutal machine, excluding all EM's ".

Then you still end up with the early SS era, but would probably get the same responses you got in most of this thread because people would like to think the games they own are the toughest, but most, not all, around here don't seem to have a very well rounded collection or knowledge of games new and old.

#88 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

Then you still end up with the early SS era, but would probably get the same responses you got in most of this thread because people would like to think the games they own are the toughest, but most, not all, around here don't seem to have a very well rounded collection or knowledge of games new and old.

I would agree with this....part of the reason I enjoy Pinside, actually. I suspect there are seasoned operators, techs, collectors, players, to newbs, and everything in between. ( I'm certainly on the lower end of the knowledge curve).

I've enjoyed pinball for probably 40 years, on and off ( played in the Clubs), but only as a casual, occasional player, until about 6 years ago, when I identified it was a perfect hobby ( now a bit obsessed) for me. Have definitely upped my knowledge, interest, and passion during this time ( though my wallet is smaller), still an average player at best.

Many interesting stories and opinions and advice, the majority I still find interesting ( with minor trolling and db's scattered in).

#89 1 year ago

I second Fish Tales. I love that game but tough to get things going. MB is often an instant drain fest.

Surprised no one has mentioned Shadow. On stock settings, it's practically impossible to finish any modes. All shots to sanctum and battlefield drop often come sdtm. Start mode shot is tough and any missed shot often means drain.

#90 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

When did this multiball enhancement begin?

~1956?

#91 1 year ago

Whoa!!!

#92 1 year ago

Balls A Poppin!

First one with ball locks like we know today-
1963 Bally Star Jet. A game that looks pretty brutal itself.

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