(Topic ID: 226448)

What Makes System 80 Games Tough to Work on?

By grantopia

5 years ago


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    #4 5 years ago

    Beyond the grounding/connector issues (which I've never really had issues with, at least not worse than other games), the main thing is that they're just not designed to be worked on. Lots of hard to find chips, no test points or diagnostic leds/tests. Every failure in the game can have tons of different failure points, with no easy way to figure out which one is the issue. They have an 'interconnect' (similar to williams) between the mpu and driver board, but while williams' sends the actual address bus across (so any interconnect issues will basically cause the game to crash), gottlieb just sends data across to latches on the driver board, so a flaky connection will leave the game running but solenoids/lamps can just wind up being stuck on/off due to flaky connections. The boards weren't designed with much future planning in mind. The driver can control very few solenoids, the sound board only had 16 possible sounds, etc. When that became an issue in newer games, they came up with creative hacks to work around it which add even more failure points. Their electrical engineers seemed to just design for "get it working right now", with no thought for reliability down the road or future issues.

    #6 5 years ago
    Quoted from jeffc:

    Were these shortcomings as much as an issue for their system 1?

    Even worse overall. System 1's OS roms were hardcoded into its six (!) CPU chips which are soldered directly to the board. The games can even boot and run tests without the rom installed. Horribly un-future-proof. The grounding issues are even worse as a bad ground can lock on a solenoid, and on system 1 that can even come back and damage one of the CPUs controlling that solenoid.

    #9 5 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    System 80 games really aren't any worse than any other game system. Heck, System 1 games aren't even that bad either once you address the common problem areas. Everybody just seems to panic when faced with a Gottlieb game just because it's a little different than what they're used to compared to classic Williams/Bally/Stern. They really aren't that scary to work on

    I don't think they're nearly as bad as many people say, either, but having worked on a ton of every system pretty much, I still find gottliebs to be a bigger pain when there is an issue.

    #17 5 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Basically, if I leave any gottlieb game on free play at a show, I have never had to worry about them having problems. They are usually trouble free. (Well, except maybe Black Hole--I always see BH owners tinkering with them at shows).

    Black Hole seems to be its own special thing for sure. Although mine has been solid across three moves now that I got the kinks worked out.

    #21 5 years ago
    Quoted from songofsixpence:

    When I first started to work on Sys 80s, at the time, it was impossible to find the split, terminal pin for the double-sided interconnect. The only choice to replace it would be to hack a JAMMA connector to it. Results were never pretty.
    Those pins have become available again.
    [quoted image]

    Wait, they have? I thought they were discontinued and running low on/out of stock

    #24 5 years ago
    Quoted from athens95:

    On a Sys 1 Sys 8 there are no cpu or on board diagnostics.

    Even worse, system 1s give an artificial pause before booting just to make you feel like it's doing something

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