Reserved3

Reserved4

It really could go either way depending on what I feel like playing. Typically I'm going to favor games with shorter ball times where it's always challenging to keep the ball in play and to put together a big score, because playing an extremely long game can often just bore me and make me not want to follow it up with another.

Reserved 5

I'm the complete opposite. I'm not interested in playing a drain monster, I want to see all the features a pin has to offer.

[edited]

I consider a game challenging when it has more objectives than I can achieve most of the time in the number of balls allotted.

I consider a game frustrating when you can NEVER achieve all the objectives no matter how many times you try.

I am goal/mission oriented so I will say I am definitely in the offensive camp. Not that I don't like hard, quick games. I tend to lose interest once I "beat" something.

The more you play, the better you get. The better you get, the more objectives you can achieve in any given game. A game with fewer objectives you will be able to "complete" and start over more and more, and it MIGHT become stale. Depends if the game 'clicks' with you.

Once you get to that stage, you seek out games with more/harder objectives to keep you coming back for more.

The really special games are the ones that provide fun for even novice players, yet have enough back end objectives to keep better players engaged.

I like to get lost in a game and it seems easier to do when I'm trying to go deeper into the game.

My issue is having a set of "rules" that you place on yourself for any reason; I'm so overly sick of overly hearing aboot one thing or the other. Fast, Flow, Stop n Go, I hate video modes because they slow the game down, blah blah blah.

Ah Mof,
Why must you try and find the meaning of life?!?!

Here goes I suppose...
I love the deep wizard mode games over the quick simple games (as a generalization).
Why
1.) I like playing the games with a brain because it is being immersed into a world. A great example is TSPP. Sure in the course of an hour game you hit the same inner loop a hundred times but each shot progresses modes towards different things. Using the shots you are literally telling a story with the silver ball. Homer day 1.) Go to work, hit the nuclear plant (pop bumpers) 2.) Go to Moe's, right ramp 3.) Drive home, Park in the garage (center shot) 4.) turn on TV, (upper PF 5.) couch end mode.
The ball has just told the story of homers actual day!
The beauty of the is game is that is one mode on a timer, compound that with the other tv modes / ottos modes / multiball / itchy and scratch MB / comic guy hurry ups / multiple mini wizard modes / custom call outs!!! this is the game I would want if I could only have one pin.
The negatives are the ball times are long and four player games are near impossible.

2.) I prefer the updated games to the originals
Example
Pinbot versus Jackbot
Black Knight versus Black Knight 2000
High Speed versus Getaway

Code code code
Makes the games better IMO

3.) note I don't dislike the defense games
Always have a good time playing them
Love Flash Gordon
I just haven't spent enough time with them due to availability but I'm slowly branching out.

Good topic
Can't wait to read more comments

Me neither, I just prefer the immersion.

I'm starting to diversify my collection and try to have Pinballs that are radically different from each other and yet all still fun stand alone games.
Haven't even scratched the surface of EMs but hopefully that's something to look forward to.

I think the correlation is between how comfortable somebody is with a table determines the play style they use.

Another thing to take into consideration is location/atmosphere of the machine.

I know while playing in league if im not familiar with a title i am playing I play defensively. I know if I keep the ball in play my points will go up even if the rules of the table havent clicked yet. By just putting around you find what shots work for you. What shots seem to be dangerous. What shot gives you what and if the risk is worth the reward. Same situation goes into playing on location.

My goal on location is always replays.
My goal in league is always score.
My goal at home is almost always fun factor. (Unless im working on ball control and flipper techniques)

Now if im playing at a buddies house its a similar situation to my house. Im there to have fun, but with a hint of competitiveness. Its always fun to brag and rile the other players up a bit.

With that in mind. I guess I would have to be an offensive player. No matter what I play or where I play I always have a goal in mind. Sometimes it has more to do with company, fun, and laughs over what is happening in the game. Other times its grinding for points to either reach a wizard mode or get a replay for a free game on location.

Any game that I can achieve a free game on my first or second play, with no idea of the rules, is not challenging

Disagree...it is just not set up challenging. Any game can be made challenging.

Beer.

To me a challenging game requires skill but contains enough equalizers/randomness that even a master will have trouble beating the game more often than not. It is what keeps EMs perpetually interesting, and is also one of the accolades of IM. In other words, goals don't have to be deep for a game to be challenging.

Deep rulesets provide a different set of challenges... a bad player simply can't shoot well enough or keep balls in play long enough to get to Valinor on LOTR, but it provides a consistent challenge to seasoned players. I hear a consistent theme about LOTR that people tend to play it less in their homes because it requires you to devote time to a single game, but when you have the time, the rules flow like no other. SM is similar in that respect.

I also agree with your inclusion of Black Hole in the discussion, it is one of the reasons it has lasted in my collection.

Yes, I suppose that is a factor
played High Speed when it came out, scored a free game
played a Space Station at a friends house, I could not loose the ball
played a Family Guy on location, game was set so steep it was not fun

At home, I prefer my games really hard now. Back legs jacked up, outlanes wide open and a tight tilt. EB's sometimes turned off. Average game times of 5 or 6 minutes tops. I rarely change rule settings. Just physical settings. Rather than going for GC or the wiz mode, I set a goal like getting all three MB's stacked on BSD, or starting TV (mini) wiz mode on FGY. Those kind of things can be done pretty quickly.

I especially like the challenge of a game like Ripley's, where the game can send you in any number of directions in a short period of time. No point in setting a goal before you start. Even with hard settings, you can get a bunch of stuff started in a short period of time. With the slot machine on Ripley's, you never know what's coming up next. The challenge is in adjusting to what the game throws at you. I like that in a game.

On location, the only goal is the GC score. Go big or go home. Got the GC on the WH2O at the SC sportsplex yesterday (for the 4th time this month). Now, I'm trying to crack 1B.

Machines that I can score 1000 points on only once in a blue moon are what i consider challenging.

It is!

A challenging game to me is the following and in the defensive camp:

One that keeps you off balance and on your toes. Make risky shots lucrative enough to go for, or necessary to reach an major goal / feature (multiball, etc).

One that doesn't feed every shot feed back to the flippers - force the player to make decisions and figure out how to get the ball under control.

Contains randomness that impacts gameplay, be it from pops, magnets or something else. (pops that always trickle out or feed the same way don't count)

Iron man is good example most of the above. Sure you can ramp out, but the real points come from reaching Do or Die and and to get to that point, you must hit multiple different magnets as well as super risky drone standups.

I'm also a pretty big fan of punishment, especially in a home setting - no extra balls, sensitive tilt, monster outlanes, nice and steep, no ball save. It's possible to make any game "challenging" with the right settings.

I'll just describe what I like about my grail pin Theatre of Magic

I like the fact that starting the <Gob>Illusions</Gob> is a simple straightforward process. The auto magna save keeps the noob from losing too fast and helps build the interest.

I think the fact that you don't actually have to complete the illusions once they are started is a plus for newer players as it allows you to complete the modes with a lower score.

As the skills increase you start completing the Illusions rather than just obtaining them. This yields higher scores and offers some nice animations.

Next you start learning tricks to advance the clock like hitting the captive ball when plunging after a lock. The satisfaction gained after advancing the clock and having the deflection hit the trunk to complete the locks and start multiball is exceptional.

In a nutshell I love that you can play this game with a minor level of skill and you can hone your skills on the same machine.

games I like have a shot,or shots that are not easy to make but very satisfying when you make them.
the thing that makes you want to play just 1 more game.
it can also be a mode or combo.
something that you did a game or 2 ago and you almost did it on your last game.
one of my favorite tough shots was on pinbot. the target at the far right just above the right slingshot.
when lit it advances the planets. I would sometimes take the glass off and just practice that shot until I could make it every time. another fun shot that when you can make it is on whirlwind.
making the right ramp shot to lock the ball from the right flipper. it is a very tough shot but if you time it just right you can do it. pat lawlor once said a good pinball game is easy to learn, easy to play, and hard to beat. I guess that's what I like.its hard to explain, but you just know when a game plays right and feels good. taxi is another one for that. getting all the fares and getting the jackpot. it can be done but its not easy.

Offensive

I play for score all the time, always going for the GC, haven't played TZ or LOTR on location in months because you know you're in for a 10 ball game all said and done. Objectives are nice, but I can't stand being inefficient in my point scoring at any time. Sure it's boring to watch, but I turn those one-shot-wonder games into a mini-contest with myself - how many times can I shoot it before I miss? It never becomes not-entertaining as I'm constantly trying to improve my skills. Spell RIVER 6 times? Sure why not!

I'm firmly in the "defensive" camp, and super-long games bore me. I generally prefer extra balls turned off, and the idea of TOPS tournaments with 1 ball setting appeal to me.

The high price tag that makes it challenging to own.

The ball time should be proportional to how well I am playing minus how risky I play. I don't mind losing a ball quickly if the shot was not precise enough or if it's a high risk high reward shot.

That being said I prefer more "safe" shots on the table with a few riskier ones to lots of risky ones. But then again I am still a noob and lose balls easily.

Defensive.

I'm surprised how many people said that the ease of wizard mode is what determines the difficulty of a game. It's ball time, no question. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong.

If you're always playing only for wizard mode, what happens when you beat it? Suddenly, you don't want to play it much anymore.

Overall I like the games that try to kick my ass (shorter ball times).

I'm about to add a fifth DMD pin to my current line up and it will make 4 out of 5 being designed by Steve Ritchie.....so you get the idea.

I had a LOTR for eight years but it spent most of the last two sitting because I didn't want to commit to a possible hour and a half game.....no thanks!

Makes me wonder what's a perfect split of 50/50 offense defence?

My vote is Doctor Who

Defensive. I understand getting to Valinor is hard, but if you kept your balls in play for an hour to get there, I'm not sure the pin itself is hard.

Collection size could also be a big factor for many. You might start off liking only "defensive" or "offensive" type pins but as your collection grows you probably begin to diversify more. Variety is definitely the spice of pinball!

Dr. Who would be great if it wasn't basically a 1 shot game. SONIC BOOM!