(Topic ID: 186548)

What is this and why does it get really hot when I play?

By crwjumper

6 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 17 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by ajfclark
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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3514670659_92533b19f0 Old coin lockout coil_O (resized).jpg
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#1 6 years ago

This coil is on the coin door (duh) on my Gottlieb Sky Jump (1974). It gets really hot when I play. Can someone please tell me what it is and if it should be getting hot? The coin mechs are functional. Also, there appears to be a missing part on the back of the coin door. If a coin is returned it drops straight down and ends up on either side of the base of the door. It seems that there should be a piece to funnel them toward the middle to the coin return flap area. If anyone has whatever is missing here I'd like to buy one. Thanks in advance!

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#2 6 years ago
Quoted from crwjumper:

This coil is on the coin door (duh) on my Gottlieb Sky Jump (1974). It gets really hot when I play. Can someone please tell me what it is and if it should be getting hot? The coin mechs are functional. Also, there appears to be a missing part on the back of the coin door. If a coin is returned it drops straight down and ends up on either side of the base of the door. It seems that there should be a piece to funnel them toward the middle to the coin return flap area. If anyone has whatever is missing here I'd like to buy one. Thanks in advance!

That is the coin lock out coil. It prevents someone from putting a quarter in game that's turned off. Pretty useless for home use, so I would just cut one of the wires off and call it a day.

#3 6 years ago
Quoted from crwjumper:

This coil is on the coin door (duh) on my Gottlieb Sky Jump (1974). It gets really hot when I play. Can someone please tell me what it is and if it should be getting hot? The coin mechs are functional. Also, there appears to be a missing part on the back of the coin door. If a coin is returned it drops straight down and ends up on either side of the base of the door. It seems that there should be a piece to funnel them toward the middle to the coin return flap area. If anyone has whatever is missing here I'd like to buy one. Thanks in advance!

The coin lockout coil is continuous duty. It is energized nearly 100% of the time the game is turned on, so it can become quite warm. This is normal.

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#4 6 years ago

They tend to buzz and get annoying as well...hack it out!

#5 6 years ago

The coin lockout coil rejects inserted coins when any of these conditions occur:

Machine is turned off.

Machine is not ready.

Score motor is running.

That last one is important. In the old days kids would try to cheat the machine (get extra credits) by inserting coin while the score motor was running (in other words the machine's brain was busy doing something else and could not monitor the coin switches).

Your machine uses coil part number A-7677 coin lockout coil. Yes, they do get hot because they are on most of the time. Your's look a bit crispy and tired.

As to the missing coin door parts, here is what you need:

(1) # B-7193 Coin Return Housing

ebay.com link: ARCADE GOTTLIEB FRONT DOOR COIN RETURN HOUSING NOS B 7193 1 PCS A

(1) # B-7194 Coin Return Cover ( # B-10064 will also work)

ebay.com link: ARCADE GOTTLIEB FRONT DOOR COIN RETURN COVER NOS B 7194 1 PCS A

(1) # A-11445 Coin Return Door (a.k.a. Flap). Pinball Resource usually has this

#6 6 years ago
Quoted from KenLayton:

The coin lockout coil rejects inserted coins when any of these conditions occur:
Machine is turned off.
Machine is not ready.
Score motor is running.
That last one is important. In the old days kids would try to cheat the machine (get extra credits) by inserting coin while the score motor was running (in other words the machine's brain was busy doing something else and could not monitor the coin switches).
Your machine uses coil part number A-7677 coin lockout coil. Yes, they do get hot because they are on most of the time. Your's look a bit crispy and tired.
As to the missing coin door parts, here is what you need:
(1) # B-7193 Coin Return Housing
ebay.com link » Arcade Gottlieb Front Door Coin Return Housing Nos B 7193 1 Pcs A
(1) # B-7194 Coin Return Cover ( # B-10064 will also work)
ebay.com link » Arcade Gottlieb Front Door Coin Return Cover Nos B 7194 1 Pcs A
(1) # A-11445 Coin Return Door (a.k.a. Flap). Pinball Resource usually has this

Thanks!

#7 6 years ago

I snip them because of the buzz. Just be careful of which wire you snip. One of the lugs may have 2 wires on it, if so, snip the other one. You only need it if you are using coins to get credits, and if you are, you can bypass it in the mech. But it's usually just easier to set it to free play in the credit unit and be done.

#8 6 years ago

A clean and adjusted coin lockout assembly won't buzz. I like to use the lockout coil as a troubleshooting aid. If I turn on an unknown condition machine and the coil pulls in immediately, then I know the coil fuse is NOT blown.

#9 6 years ago

Even if I didn't use coins at my place, I would repair it instead of hacking it off.

Modern pinball medicine doesn't require amputation too often.

#10 6 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

I snip them because of the buzz. Just be careful of which wire you snip. One of the lugs may have 2 wires on it, if so, snip the other one.

Agreed! I did that once and couldn't figure out the problem!

#11 6 years ago

I usually like to keep everything intact, but in this case this coil likely has melted insulation, causing it to draw excess current which will make it get even hotter, and the cycle repeats until it's a dead short. Just cut the wire on it for now. Tape the end of the wire to keep it from shorting against something, and pick up a new coil somewhere down the road. Not a big issue really.

#12 6 years ago

What is the correct way to bypass this coil AND still be able to take coins?

#13 6 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

What is the correct way to bypass this coil AND still be able to take coins?

The game will still take coins with this coil disabled, but you will need to pull the armature plate in against the coil. Use a tie-wrap or simple wire to do this.

2 weeks later
#14 6 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

What is the correct way to bypass this coil AND still be able to take coins?

I swapped out the coin lockout coil in my Pioneer for an A-16890 coil and a few diodes as recommended here: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#continuous

This was a coin lockout coil:Coin lockout coilCoin lockout coil
Which disintegrated as it was removed:Coin lockout coil falling apartCoin lockout coil falling apart
Replacement:New (not) hotnessNew (not) hotness

While I was at it, I swapped out the Game Over, Tilt Hold and Hold coils:
CrispyCrispy

I soldered the black and relay wires in the reverse of what the link above says as (a) They wouldn't reach & (b) I was pretty certain that as the diodes are converting AC power to DC in a half-wave format it shouldn't matter which way the wires are attached as long as the diodes are correct:HoldHoldTilt HoldTilt HoldGame OverGame Over

I don't really like fiddling things from original, but overall I've been very happy with this modification. The machine buzzes less and those coils don't get warm at all. I should possibly add the capacitor on the Game Over coil as I think it very occasionally has trouble locking in at the end of game which can cause the motor to turn an extra position or two (which results in matches being awarded multiple times when there's a match and the run on happens *knock* *knock* *knock*).

#15 6 years ago
Quoted from ajfclark:

I swapped out the coin lockout coil in my Pioneer for an A-16890 coil and a few diodes as recommended here: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#continuous
This was a coin lockout coil:
Which disintegrated as it was removed:
Replacement:
While I was at it, I swapped out the Game Over, Tilt Hold and Hold coils:

I soldered the black and relay wires in the reverse of what the link above says as (a) They wouldn't reach & (b) I was pretty certain that as the diodes are converting AC power to DC in a half-wave format it shouldn't matter which way the wires are attached as long as the diodes are correct:
I don't really like fiddling things from original, but overall I've been very happy with this modification. The machine buzzes less and those coils don't get warm at all. I should possibly add the capacitor on the Game Over coil as I think it very occasionally has trouble locking in at the end of game which can cause the motor to turn an extra position or two (which results in matches being awarded multiple times when there's a match and the run on happens *knock* *knock* *knock*).

Not familiar with circuit enough to know off hand how reversing those wires affects anything so can't contribute on that...

Otherwise though, I can certainly give a props to you for taking the time and few bucks to repair the right way instead of hacking it off!! Plus going ahead and taking the time to preventarivly replace other nasty ones! AWESOME

#16 6 years ago
Quoted from pacmanretro:

Not familiar with circuit enough to know off hand how reversing those wires affects anything so can't contribute on that...

Certainly seems to work either way. I figured that AC oscillates so it really didn't shouldn't which way around it was connected as long as the diodes are right - Hell, the whole machine was wired with the active and neutral switched when I got it and that worked fine!

Quoted from pacmanretro:

Otherwise though, I can certainly give a props to you for taking the time and few bucks to repair the right way instead of hacking it off!! Plus going ahead and taking the time to preventarivly replace other nasty ones! AWESOME

Thanks.

As those coils needed to be swapped out anyway, it was a relatively trivial investment of money and took very little extra time so I thought it made sense. I should probably also do the First Ball coil - I noticed last night when I was taking pictures that it's also starting to look toasty.

1 week later
#17 6 years ago
Quoted from ajfclark:

I should possibly add the capacitor on the Game Over coil as I think it very occasionally has trouble locking in at the end of game which can cause the motor to turn an extra position or two (which results in matches being awarded multiple times when there's a match and the run on happens *knock* *knock* *knock*).

I was thinking I must have been crazy to not add the capacitor back in 2009 when I did this modification, especially given the instructions I linked exactly describe the problem I was seeing:

What this does is effectively converts the AC power to DC in a half-wave format, but just for this relay. This allows the A-16890 relay to work in an EM game. (If you don't use the diodes, this relay will chatter and not work.) This continuous duty relay coil will never burn up, and consumes a lot less power in the process. Gottlieb adds a 50 mfd 50v capacitor (installed on the coil lugs parallel to the coil diode, with the cap's "+" lead connected to the diode banded lead) and a 6 ohm 2 watt resistor (in front of the second diode) to the circuit too. The resistor is not needed, but usually the 50mfd capacitor is needed (especially if the game is not hi-tapped.) For example if the Game Over relay has a hard time "pulling in" or chatters, add the capacitor across the lugs of the relay (positive cap lead to the relay lug with the banded diode leads.) Note I have also seen where the game won't go to "game over" (which requires the Game Over relay to lock-on) if this capacitor is not present - instead the score motor just keeps running as the Game Over relay tries to lock-on.

The pictures don't have capacitors though which got me thinking maybe the text had changed.

I had a look in the wayback machine http://web.archive.org/web/20090206222517/http://pinrepair.com:80/em/index2.htm and the page used to read:

What this does is effectly converts the AC power to DC in a half-wave format, but just for this relay. This allows the A-16890 relay to work in an EM game (if you don't use the diodes, this relay will chatter and not work). And this continuous duty relay coil will never burn up, and consumes a lot less power in the process. Gottlieb adds a 50 mfd 50v capacitor (installed on the coil lugs parallel to the coil diode, with the cap's "+" lead connected to the diode banded lead) and a 6 ohm 2 watt resistor (in front of the second diode) to the circuit too. But personally I have found these to be unnecessary.

That's a little different from the current recommendation.

I've added a 47mfd capacitor and the run on issue has been resolved.

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