(Topic ID: 311792)

What is Pat Lawlor's Top Pinball machine?

By Hammerhead

2 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 115 posts
  • 56 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by easye9901
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Pat Lawlor's Top Pinball Machine”

  • Banzai Run 1988 4 votes
    1%
  • Earthshaker 1989 3 votes
    1%
  • Whirlwind 1990 40 votes
    8%
  • Funhouse 1991 37 votes
    7%
  • The Addam's Family 1992 85 votes
    17%
  • Twilight Zone 1993 175 votes
    34%
  • Road Show 1994 14 votes
    3%
  • Safe Cracker 1996 6 votes
    1%
  • No Good Gofers 1997 13 votes
    3%
  • Monopoly 2001 2 votes
  • Roller Coaster Tycoon 2001 2 votes
  • Ripley's Believe It Or Not! 2004 13 votes
    3%
  • Grand Prix/NASCAR 2005 5 votes
    1%
  • Family Guy/Shrek 2007 8 votes
    2%
  • CSI 2008 3 votes
    1%
  • Dialed In! 2017 55 votes
    11%
  • Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory 2019 50 votes
    10%

(515 votes)

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There are 115 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
#51 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Bias aside, I think it’s Lawlor’s best Stern, one if Stern’s most B/W “feeling” games, and it has great code/rules, great Thiel sound, and tons of custom callouts.
I honestly love most of Lawlor’s games…except TZ lol.

Its high on my list.....I have been waiting for good HUO to come up for sale near me. Funny you say that about TZ....I have one and I honestly don't like it that much... I remember it being so much better back in the day. I have Wonka too and I really like it....

#52 2 years ago

i tried to reply in this thread two days ago but the start / stop nature of it prevented me ....

#53 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Family Guy.
End thread.

I can't understand why Family Guy is rated so much higher than Shrek when they are exactly the same layout with different themes and rules. Rules can't make that much difference (likewise with NASCAR and Grand Prix).

#54 2 years ago

TZ. FG & TAF tied for second.

NGG would be there with better (working) rules. DI would be there with better (working) hardware.

#55 2 years ago
Quoted from pinballboy:

I understand it’s your opinion but this game is going for like 10000 dollars. And artwork and theme are really not bad.

Ripleys?!?!

#56 2 years ago
Quoted from Hammerhead:

I can't understand why Family Guy is rated so much higher than Shrek when they are exactly the same layout with different themes and rules. Rules can't make that much difference (likewise with NASCAR and Grand Prix).

If you haven't figured out that theme is everything in 2022, I don't know which forum you've been hanging out on.

#57 2 years ago
Quoted from yancy:

If you haven't figured out that theme is everything in 2022, I don't know which forum you've been hanging out on.

I get that, but FG is almost 100 spots higher than Shrek. Theme is definitely a deciding factor but you can't attribute that much of a spread just because the theme speaks to you more.

The difference between NASCAR and Grand Prix is understandable given American's infatuation with toilet bowl racing, versus a racing series where you can turn both left and right.

#58 2 years ago

OOHHH sorry, I thought your were talking about TZ my bad

#59 2 years ago
Quoted from Hammerhead:

I get that, but FG is almost 100 spots higher than Shrek. Theme is definitely a deciding factor but you can't attribute that much of a spread just because the theme speaks to you more.

Three reasons, I think.

1. FGY is “the original”…Shrek is “the copy”. People might just rate FGY & ignore Shrek because it’s the same.

2. There were more FGY’s made, so more owners & location players were exposed to it.

3. Theme. Pinsiders prob just like FGY more than Shrek in general.

Shrek does have its own rave coming up, though lol

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#60 2 years ago
Quoted from JWJr:

NGG would be there with better (working) rules

I consider myself someone that understands rules pretty well, especially 90s games. I’ve had NGG for a really long time & never noticed anything not working. l guess there’s some points exploit that tournament players don’t like…but for normal people, it has really fun rules & functions as expected. Lyman hated it, though - he told me it was a toxic asset

#61 2 years ago
Quoted from Hammerhead:

Theme is definitely a deciding factor but you can't attribute that much of a spread just because the theme speaks to you more.

Sure you can. Hundreds of people on this forum are ready to sign over their first born child for a Jaws or Back to the Future game, without knowing a single other thing about it.

#62 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I consider myself someone that understands rules pretty well, especially 90s games. I’ve had NGG for a really long time & never noticed anything not working. l guess there’s some points exploit that tournament players don’t like…but for normal people, it has really fun rules & functions as expected. Lyman hated it, though - he told me it was a toxic asset

I've wanted one for a while and finally got one. I've played them on location and never really ran into anything crazy either. I've always heard the software is really buggy but nothing super weird has ever really jumped out at me...maybe now that I have one at home it will become more apparent. I am a big fan of it though!

#63 2 years ago
Quoted from pinballboy:

OOHHH sorry, I thought your were talking about TZ my bad

TZ's a masterpiece!

#64 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Lyman hated it, though - he told me it was a toxic asset

One of my favorite Lyman memories involves NGG. A friend and I were playing it at Rick Schieve's party. Lyman seemed bemused/annoyed that we were enjoying such a crap game. It's been far too long to recall the exact conversation, but it was something like, "how can you guys stand to play that thing with all the bugs?" I was like "what bugs?" He said that for later multiballs a gopher can get stuck in the up position, blocking the lock for the rest of the game. I just kinda shrugged like, never happened to me.

Lyman waited for us to finish and was like, "here, let me show you." He fired up a game and blasted through to the bug without missing a shot. After bashing the stubborn gopher several times, he said something like, "see? game sucks," let the ball drain and walked away. It was way more good-natured than I'm making it sound, we all had a laugh.

#65 2 years ago

I think that may be the only real bug I've encountered in the game. No biggie, I still love playing it.

#66 2 years ago
Quoted from yancy:

One of my favorite Lyman memories involves NGG. A friend and I were playing it at Rick Schieve's party. Lyman seemed bemused/annoyed that we were enjoying such a crap game. It's been far too long to recall the exact conversation, but it was something like, "how can you guys stand to play that thing with all the bugs?" I was like "what bugs?" He said that for later multiballs a gopher can get stuck in the up position, blocking the lock for the rest of the game. I just kinda shrugged like, never happened to me.
Lyman waited for us to finish and was like, "here, let me show you." He fired up a game and blasted through to the bug without missing a shot. After bashing the stubborn gopher several times, he said something like, "see? game sucks," let the ball drain and walked away. It was way more good-natured than I'm making it sound, we all had a laugh.

I've never had Buzz stay up and block the right ramp access during multiball. Then again I am no Lyman. There are some bugs in the game, sometimes get a random ball put into play when a loop shot is made, the spinning wheel is hard to keep dialed in to award what it says, but if you want a golf themed pin with one of pinballs greatest shots, it is a lot of fun. Then again, I thougth Tee'd Off was fun too. I guess PL has a good foothold in my collection.
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#67 2 years ago
Quoted from yancy:

One of my favorite Lyman memories involves NGG. A friend and I were playing it at Rick Schieve's party. Lyman seemed bemused/annoyed that we were enjoying such a crap game. It's been far too long to recall the exact conversation, but it was something like, "how can you guys stand to play that thing with all the bugs?" I was like "what bugs?" He said that for later multiballs a gopher can get stuck in the up position, blocking the lock for the rest of the game. I just kinda shrugged like, never happened to me.
Lyman waited for us to finish and was like, "here, let me show you." He fired up a game and blasted through to the bug without missing a shot. After bashing the stubborn gopher several times, he said something like, "see? game sucks," let the ball drain and walked away. It was way more good-natured than I'm making it sound, we all had a laugh.

Haha...yeah, he just hated that game. He even hated the "clanky" noises that the Gophers always make as the pop up, jiggle, and pop down.

I like colorful games with personality, and Gofers definitely has that. I love the music...one of the best and most varied soundtracks of a 90's game. The main tune is like Danny Elfman/Weird Al accordion music, then there's Dance Party techno, the Chicken Dance, and some Satriani-level guitar rock. Plus it shoots fast and flowy, the slam ramp is super fun...it just all around puts me in a good mood to play it.

#68 2 years ago

Yeah, I like it a lot, and truth be told, should probably have voted for it over RCT in this poll. Might be Pat's least Lawloresque game. Curbs most of his Rube Goldberg tendencies and just lets the ball fly.

#69 2 years ago

Never encountered NGG bugs, it just has horrible rules.
Amazing the the Hole in 1 shot doesn't get old though..smoothest Lawlor there is as well

#70 2 years ago

TAF did more for pinball than any of the others. Op's made a killing on it, and lasted along time in the same spot on location. Production numbers were through the roof and there is still a strong demand today. Dialed In is also a great design. It just need a re-theme IMO. Im all for non licensed themes but this missed the mark for me. TZ gets the most love in the community due to the cult following haha. Head to head on location TAF will clean up over TZ all day.

#71 2 years ago

Is NGG the only Pat game with a big ol' traditional orbit? Gofers layout feels like Lawlor paying tribute to Ritchie (instead of himself, for once).

#72 2 years ago
Quoted from yancy:

Is NGG the only Pat game with a big ol' traditional orbit? Gofers layout feels like Lawlor paying tribute to Ritchie (instead of himself, for once).

Biggest orbit entries ever...hot dog down a hallway

#73 2 years ago
Quoted from pinmister:

I thought Adams Family would be leading the poll by a high margin? Surprised to see Twilight Zone taking the lead in the poll by nearly double. Interesting

Some other things I find interesting is the number of machines produced between Adams Family at 20,270 and Twilight Zone at 15,235. You would figure with that many more machines in circulation and Adams being a cash register for OP's that Adams would take the lead? The Pinside 100 portrays the majority of peoples actual opinion of Lawlor games which is also interesting. One thing I can say is finding a nice TZ is actually pretty easy. The shooter eject mech pooping the ball out like a soft turd saved the shooter lanes on TZ. TZ also did not have bad insert wear like Adams mansion wear. Overall TZ was built really well and has held up considerably well considering it's age. Trying to find an Adams that is not beat for a decent price is actually a hard task nowadays(which also surprises me given the number of units produced).

#74 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I’ve had NGG for a really long time & never noticed anything not working.

Quoted from grantopia:

I've always heard the software is really buggy but nothing super weird has ever really jumped out at me

Quoted from TheLaw:

ever encountered NGG bugs, it just has horrible rules.

Not sure how y'all missed so many problems with this game.. It's good (I've owned HUO since 1999) but man, the software is garbage.

Easiest is to just loop the left ramp til Buzz pops up. Now try to shoot the ramp again.. Buzz will never go down. That's the bug Lyman demonstrated.

Have any of you ever noticed the quick jackpot never awards what it claims?

Ever had the captive ball hurryup music get stuck and never end?

Ever missed the f'n wizard mode completely?? Stack multiball start along with hole 9 completion at the HIO shot and revel in the first "optional" wizard mode in pinball history..

There's more, I don't have the list handy. One thing: how many times has this game EVER been used in a tournament?

Lyman was 100% correct in his assessment of this POS software. And yet we still own our NIB game... a flowing Lawlor game is rare indeed.

#75 2 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Not sure how y'all missed so many problems with this game.. It's good (I've owned HUO since 1999) but man, the software is garbage.
Easiest is to just loop the left ramp til Buzz pops up. Now try to shoot the ramp again.. Buzz will never go down. That's the bug Lyman demonstrated.
Have any of you ever noticed the quick jackpot never awards what it claims?
Ever had the captive ball hurryup music get stuck and never end?
Ever missed the f'n wizard mode completely?? Stack multiball start along with hole 9 completion at the HIO shot and revel in the first "optional" wizard mode in pinball history..
There's more, I don't have the list handy. One thing: how many times has this game EVER been used in a tournament?
Lyman was 100% correct in his assessment of this POS software. And yet we still own our NIB game... a flowing Lawlor game is rare indeed.

ONE tournament I can think of - Magfest in 2017 or so. I think we managed to escape without any crazy disruptions.

I won that tournament too! Probably proof something was up.

Distrit 82 in Wisconsin uses one too, but who knows if there's a custom ROM in it (half their games do)

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#76 2 years ago

NGG's bugs won't wreck a game in progress, they affect scoring and access to features. If you DO ever see one again:

- Never loop the left ramp more than three two times. If you're collecting TNT for later multiballs, shoot something else every 3rd shot. If you DO get Buzz stuck up, i think shooting enough other stuff to stimulate more rules might get him back down eventually.

- Quick Jackpot is really RANDOM jackpot. It might give you what it claims, it might give more, but more frequently it'll give you jack shit.

- The wheel award pointer can't be trusted, the wheel shifts or the opto misreads and you get something else.

- Bugs aside, the rules themselves are crappy. The only lucrative modes are multiball and cart attack... maybe quick multiball but it's woodchoppy. There's another bug that can make cart attack huge but I forget the details

Despite all that, the flow and atmosphere have made it a keeper for us. The post SJ metal music is awesome.

#77 2 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

only lucrative modes are multiball and cart attack...

Well luckily you get Cart Attack every 45 seconds so...

As I've always complained, its a golf game that doesn't award anything valuable for getting a low golf score.
I wanted this game so bad after playing it a couple times, found it, and didn't even play it much.

#78 2 years ago

Yeah the golf score aspect is pretty much wasted.. low scores build better bonus but you're better off just going for multiball and completing holes asap.

I'm surprised you get cart attack so often... you get one quickie off the cart, but then you gotta go through all the other cart awards before you can get it again. Maybe someone got lucky with getting it off the wheel award a few times?

#79 2 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Yeah the golf score aspect is pretty much wasted.. low scores build better bonus but you're better off just going for multiball and completing holes asap.
I'm surprised you get cart attack so often... you get one quickie off the cart, but then you gotta go through all the other cart awards before you can get it again. Maybe someone got lucky with getting it off the wheel award a few times?

I feel like i got it off the wheel all the time; been years though.
Low scores increase shot values on wizard mode too but not enough.

#80 2 years ago

Forgot the other lucrative mode: pop a gofer. 1M a hit dwarfs other awards and they sometimes score themselves with phantom eddy switch activations from the mech going up and down.

#81 2 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Despite all that, the flow and atmosphere have made it a keeper for us. The post SJ metal music is awesome.

That’s why I love it. It’s fun, has great music & tons of personality. I’ve never noticed any of those bugs, so yay for me on that front, too!

How come NGG never got a “Home Rom” with the bugs fixed?

#82 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

How come NGG never got a “Home Rom” with the bugs fixed?

Vaguely remember back in the day hearing something about Louis Koziarz not being interested in fixing anything once his employment with WMS ended.

#83 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

How come NGG never got a “Home Rom” with the bugs fixed?

I'm guessing it was ignored early because it was a bad seller. They were being sold on closeout for $1800-$2200 for years. I remember them still being listed on ebay nib for under $2500 in the early 2000s.

#84 2 years ago
Quoted from sanctumwear:

I'm guessing it was ignored early because it was a bad seller. They were being sold on closeout for $1800-$2200 for years. I remember them still being listed on ebay nib for under $2500 in the early 2000s.

So was CV, but that got a Home ROM....but, I guess that was due to Cameron Silver wanting to do it.

#85 2 years ago
Quoted from schudel5:

Whirlwind the bottom earner. Family Guy the top earner and it's been that way for a while.

My wife wanted to play just one game of Family Guy at One Well.. she never got a chance cuz there was a guy playing it the entire time (hours).

#86 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

So was CV, but that got a Home ROM....but, I guess that was due to Cameron Silver wanting to do it.

That's true. Larry is right about Louis Koziarz. If ngg was coded by Lyman or Cam it would've definitely been fixed, doesn't matter that it was a poor seller.

#87 2 years ago

There are Lawler games with way better rules and themes but I think RCT is Pats best shooting pin. Super underated.

#88 2 years ago
Quoted from erak:

There are Lawler games with way better rules and themes but I think RCT is Pats best shooting pin. Super underated.

Great layout for sure. But the rules stink.

#89 2 years ago

DI #1
Whirlwind #2
everything else

#90 2 years ago

TAF and TZ tied for the win for me. Great themes, play, and I never get tired of running the board. Addam’s Family was my first hook into pinball. Safecracker is also a great game in any mode you play it, but it is so rare, so no surprise regarding its rating. The talking heads are also great fun! I am surprised about Wonka getting the love it gets, which like Monopoly, is a dud to me - it shot nice, but wasn’t fun.

#91 2 years ago
Quoted from TimBoch:

I've never had Buzz stay up and block the right ramp access during multiball. Then again I am no Lyman. There are some bugs in the game, sometimes get a random ball put into play when a loop shot is made, the spinning wheel is hard to keep dialed in to award what it says, but if you want a golf themed pin with one of pinballs greatest shots, it is a lot of fun. Then again, I thougth Tee'd Off was fun too. I guess PL has a good foothold in my collection.
[quoted image][quoted image]

Wow! Nice game room and what a collection of games! I really like the way you led your games and your game room - Cool!

#92 2 years ago

NGG is the best layout wise followed by ES. NGG HAS to be next up for those modern code updates. I love it.

#93 2 years ago

My #1 vote is TAF. I played a new Addams on location in the early 90’s and was then hooked on pinball. My first pinball I ever owned was TAF. It’s easy to master now that I’ve played and owned so many others. Yet, for the days I just want a good pinball experience, TAF is my go to.

Roadshow is my #2. The shots on RS are diversified enough to force a player to shoot the whole playfield during a game. The two talking heads are a novelty, but I don’t really pay much attention except during multi ball. This is one that isn’t as intuitive as TAF, doesn’t get as much attention during parties, but really shines when you learn the shots and progress across the map. Hell, I think in some ways Stern Jurassic Park has some similarities regarding rules. Yep, I just said it, JP is a rip off of RS.

#94 2 years ago

Lawlor is the best designer for sure. Wonka is the best he's done ever. so many shots. so much diversion. exceptional!

Wonka
Dialed In
Funhouse
TZ
whirlwind
TAF

#95 2 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Never encountered NGG bugs, it just has horrible rules.
Amazing the the Hole in 1 shot doesn't get old though..smoothest Lawlor there is as well

Dialed in shoots smoother imho

#96 2 years ago
Quoted from romulusx:

Dialed in shoots smoother imho

It's smooth for sure, but the weak left orbit design slows it down a bit too much for me.

#97 2 years ago
Quoted from romulusx:

Dialed in shoots smoother imho

It's amazing how Butterly smooth the shots in DI are.

Side comment... Some modern Stern people hate the way DI fells! They want the rocket slamp flippers from Stern JP everywhere. IMHO, one isn't better than the other -- the game should have the flipper feel that's appropriate for it's theme / design.

#98 2 years ago

Whirlwind

Quoted from CrazyLevi:"seems old" with the alphanumerics

It will be interesting to see if Whirlwind 2.0 will bring this game back into the modern conversation (if it gets made following FH 2.0)

#99 2 years ago

To me, games like FH and WW have ideal code for their layouts, so I have zero interest in any "upgrades." Especially if they're gonna replace the perfect old-school music & sounds. BOP 2.0 had more modes, but fell really flat for me. No soul.

#100 2 years ago
Quoted from Beebl:

Whirlwind

It will be interesting to see if Whirlwind 2.0 will bring this game back into the modern conversation (if it gets made following FH 2.0)

It should be a crime, or at least a misdemeanor, to bastardize classics like Wwind and Funhouse like this. I do not see the allure.

There's hundreds of DMD games out there already.

BOP 2 sucks, and that's not even a great game to begin with. Wish this fad would expire.

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